A More Perfect Union

[peewee's lovechild]

The cable news journalists who are playing the tapes of those sermons were not there. The tapes were on sale in the church itself. Obama knew that because he had bought one or more of those tapes.

If there is proof of this, it will prove to be extremely damaging to Obama's credibility.

He would be caught in a lie.
He would be exposed as just another politician, the type of politician he says he is not.

[JoeChalupa]

I prefer to have my own take on Obama's speech. No offense to Thomas Sowell. You can find positive takes on his speech as well as negative.
I'm still supporting Barack Obama.

[JoeChalupa]

That's because I stand behind my choice.

I can't be bashing Obama and then vote for him with a clear conscience.

I'm just wondering if Manny will do the same.

If Hillary wins the nomination I may vote for McCain.

[peewee's lovechild]

If Hillary wins the nomination I may vote for McCain.

McCain and Obama's platforms are extremely different.
How can you vote for McCain?

Is this proof that you're just being swept up in the Obamamentum?

[smeagol]

I can't be bashing Obama and then vote for him with a clear conscience.

If Hillary wins the nomination I may vote for McCain.

More evidence Democrats don't deserve to win in November . . .

[peewee's lovechild]

More evidence Democrats don't deserve to win in November . . .

I don't know how else to get it through to that pea brain of yours.

I'm not a Democrat.

Why would I vote for someone I don't believe in?

JoeChalupa voting for McCain if Obama doesn't get the nomination doesn't make sense. However, me not voting for someone I don't believe in makes all the sense in the world.

[JoeChalupa]

I don't know how else to get it through to that pea brain of yours.

I'm not a Democrat.

Why would I vote for someone I don't believe in?

JoeChalupa voting for McCain if Obama doesn't get the nomination doesn't make sense. However, me not voting for someone I don't believe in makes all the sense in the world.

Your not voting at all doesn't make any sense to me. The not voting for someone you don't believe does, but simply not voting doesn't.

I've had said many times that I like John McCain and could see me voting for him. And I do believe in John McCain as an honorable man. Much more so than President Bush.

Think outside the box.

[JoeChalupa]

More evidence Democrats don't deserve to win in November . . .

The best candidate deserves to win.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!

[peewee's lovechild]

Your not voting at all doesn't make any sense to me. The not voting for someone you don't believe does, but simply not voting doesn't.

I've had said many times that I like John McCain and could see me voting for him. And I do believe in John McCain as an honorable man. Much more so than President Bush.

Think outside the box.

So, you're saying that I should vote for someone that I don't believe in just for the sake of voting?

That makes no sense at all.

[JoeChalupa]

McCain and Obama's platforms are extremely different.
How can you vote for McCain?

Is this proof that you're just being swept up in the Obamamentum?

No, but I have been swept up by the fact that as an American I have the right to vote for which ever candidate I choose to and don't have to explain myself to you or anyone else.


But I find myself doing it on message boards all the time.

[JoeChalupa]

So, you're saying that I should vote for someone that I don't believe in just for the sake of voting?

That makes no sense at all.

Does this?

A write-in candidate is a candidate in an election whose name does not appear on the ballot, but for whom voters may vote nonetheless by writing in the person's name.

[peewee's lovechild]

No, but I have been swept up by the fact that as an American I have the right to vote for which ever candidate I choose to and don't have to explain myself to you or anyone else.


But I find myself doing it on message boards all the time.

That was funny.

You're right, everyone has that right.
But, I also have the right to not to vote for someone I don't believe in.

[JoeChalupa]

That was funny.

You're right, everyone has that right.
But, I also have the right to not to vote for someone I don't believe in.

I concur. I've just never missed a predidential election since I turned of voting age. That is all.

[peewee's lovechild]

Does this?

A write-in candidate is a candidate in an election whose name does not appear on the ballot, but for whom voters may vote nonetheless by writing in the person's name.

If my candidate doesn't get the nomination, there's no point to write her name in.

It's a pointless gesture, akin to using a spoon to take the water out of a sinking ship.

[peewee's lovechild]

I concur. I've just never missed a predidential election since I turned of voting age. That is all.

This would be my first.

[xrayzebra]

Your not voting at all doesn't make any sense to me. The not voting for someone you don't believe does, but simply not voting doesn't.

I've had said many times that I like John McCain and could see me voting for him. And I do believe in John McCain as an honorable man. Much more so than President Bush.

Think outside the box.

Joe, you consider Obama an honorable man? How is he
honorable? Explain this to me.

[RandomGuy]

Typical misinformation from an Obama cultist; Hillary flew with Sinbad and Sheryl Crow.

(nods) I see. Maybe Sheryl will be her running mate.

[RandomGuy]

It's called damage control.

And, if I had to give him a grade on it, I'd give him a B.

Heh, the pundits seem to disagree.

Although the BBC guy I read this morning seemed to think that his honesty will "kill" his campaign.

Actually, I saw much of the speech and thought it was pretty darn brilliant as well.

Quite frankly, it completely erased any lingering doubts I had about supporting him.

[xrayzebra]

Heh, the pundits seem to disagree.

Although the BBC guy I read this morning seemed to think that his honesty will "kill" his campaign.

Actually, I saw much of the speech and thought it was pretty darn brilliant as well.

Quite frankly, it completely erased any lingering doubts I had about supporting him.

Yep one more. I watched. But didn't really listen to
what he really said. He was brilliant. The birds sang
louder and the world was just a nicer place to live in
since he spoke. Yeah, you bet. Wonder how his
old racist Grandmother feels, who loved him so much.
Obviously all white folks are racist.

[RandomGuy]

Joe, you consider Obama an honorable man? How is he
honorable? Explain this to me.

Well for one thing, he didn't completely throw the preacher in question "under the bus".

That would have made me really leery.

He did say what he thought about what the guy said, in an honest, thoughtful way.

(shrugs)

We all have our crazy uncles, and although I don't agree with Uncle Buster that "they are rustlin' up them crazy cows from Mexica through the valley, I know 'cuz I SEEN 'em", I still love the old coot.

He could have easily simply totally thrown the guy under the bus in order to get elected. That would have been what a lot of critics said should have happened, but would lack, in my opinion, integrity.

He proved that he is willing to take the hits for not totally abondoning a guy he has known for 20 years.

This and several other incidents have reinforced his words (and I am paraphrasing here) "I will not do ANYTHING to win this election, I will win it on my terms and in a way to be proud of."

Good gawd, he is the first guy in a long time that might actually mean what he says.

[Mr. Peabody]

Huckabee chimes in on the Wright controversy on Morning Joe (via Daily Kos)

HUCKABEE: [Obama] made the point, and I think it's a valid one, that you can't hold the candidate responsible for everything that people around him may say or do. You just can't. Whether it's me, whether it's Obama...anybody else. But he did distance himself from the very vitriolic statements.

Now, the second story. It's interesting to me that there are some people on the left who are having to be very uncomfortable with what Louis Wright said, when they all were all over a Jerry Falwell, or anyone on the right who said things that they found very awkward and uncomfortable years ago. Many times those were statements lifted out of the context of a larger sermon. Sermons, after all, are rarely written word for word by pastors like Reverend Wright, who are delivering them extemporaneously, and caught up in the emotion of the moment. There are things that sometimes get said, that if you put them on paper and looked at them in print, you'd say "Well, I didn't mean to say it quite like that."

JOE SCARBOROUGH: But, but, you never came close to saying five days after September 11th, that America deserved what it got. Or that the American government invented AIDS...

HUCKABEE: Not defending his statements.

JOE SCARBOROUGH: Oh, I know you're not. I know you're not. I'm just wondering though, for a lot of people...Would you not guess that there are a lot of Independent voters in Arkansas that vote for Democrats sometimes, and vote for Republicans sometimes, that are sitting here wondering how Barack Obama's spiritual mentor would call the United States the USKKK?

HUCKABEE: I mean, those were outrageous statements, and nobody can defend the content of them.

JOE SCARBOROUGH: But what's the impact on voters in Arkansas? Swing voters.

HUCKABEE: I don't think we know. If this were October, I think it would have a dramatic impact. But it's not October. It's March. And I don't believe that by the time we get to October, this is gonna be the defining issue of the campaign, and the reason that people vote.

And one other thing I think we've gotta remember. As easy as it is for those of us who are white, to look back and say "That's a terrible statement!"...I grew up in a very segregated south. And I think that you have to cut some slack -- and I'm gonna be probably the only Conservative in America who's gonna say something like this, but I'm just tellin' you -- we've gotta cut some slack to people who grew up being called names, being told "you have to sit in the balcony when you go to the movie. You have to go to the back door to go into the restaurant. And you can't sit out there with everyone else. There's a separate waiting room in the doctor's office. Here's where you sit on the bus..." And you know what? Sometimes people do have a chip on their shoulder and resentment. And you have to just say, I probably would too. I probably would too. In fact, I may have had more of a chip on my shoulder had it been me.

MIKA: I agree with that. I really do.

JOE SCARBOROUGH: It's the Atticus Finch line about walking a mile in somebody else's shoes. I remember when Ronald Reagan got shot in 1981. There were some black students in my school that started applauding and said they hoped that he died. And you just sat there and of course you were angry at first, and then you walked out and started scratching your head going "boy, there is some deep resentment there."

[xrayzebra]

Well for one thing, he didn't completely throw the preacher in question "under the bus".

That would have made me really leery.

He did say what he thought about what the guy said, in an honest, thoughtful way.

(shrugs)

We all have our crazy uncles, and although I don't agree with Uncle Buster that "they are rustlin' up them crazy cows from Mexica through the valley, I know 'cuz I SEEN 'em", I still love the old coot.

He could have easily simply totally thrown the guy under the bus in order to get elected. That would have been what a lot of critics said should have happened, but would lack, in my opinion, integrity.

He proved that he is willing to take the hits for not totally abondoning a guy he has known for 20 years.

This and several other incidents have reinforced his words (and I am paraphrasing here) "I will not do ANYTHING to win this election, I will win it on my terms and in a way to be proud of."

Good gawd, he is the first guy in a long time that might actually mean what he says.

Yeah isn't he wonderful. He keeps the old guy who hates
white folks, but throws his loving grandmother under the
bus. What a guy.

[RandomGuy]

Yep one more. I watched. But didn't really listen to
what he really said. He was brilliant. The birds sang
louder and the world was just a nicer place to live in
since he spoke. Yeah, you bet. Wonder how his
old racist Grandmother feels, who loved him so much.
Obviously all white folks are racist.

That isn't what he said, and on some level you know that.

Ray, you're a good egg. I like ya.

But when it comes to Dems or Republicans you simply have too much confirmation bias to be credible when it comes to analysing these things, no offense.

Dems, no matter who they are, can do/say no right, and Republicans, no matter who they are, can do no wrong.

That kind of thing is the very definition of confirmation bias.

[xrayzebra]

That isn't what he said, and on some level you know that.

Ray, you're a good egg. I like ya.

But when it comes to Dems or Republicans you simply have too much confirmation bias to be credible when it comes to analysing these things, no offense.

Dems, no matter who they are, can do/say no right, and Republicans, no matter who they are, can do no wrong.



That kind of thing is the very definition of confirmation bias.

No RG, you know what I noticed more than anything,
not that he threw his Grandmother under the bus, but
that he acknowledged she loved him and help raise him
and made him cringe.........but not once, not one damn
time did he acknowledge he loved her or respected her.

That is something I noticed. Did you?

[RandomGuy]

Yeah isn't he wonderful. He keeps the old guy who hates
white folks, but throws his loving grandmother under the
bus. What a guy.

He didn't throw his grandmother under the bus either. He had the nuts to talk about her as if she were (gasp) human.

He simply pointed out the contradictions and problems that remain in race relations in the country, even to this day, even in people he loves deeply.