Jason Kidd Trade was a disaster

[DazedAndConfused]

Yao Ming will never stay healthy for an entire season. T-Mac is on the decline and even more injury prone than Yao.

Derek Fisher should be SUSPENDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Findog]

The early returns on the trade aren't good, but it's a mixed bag. According to efficiency ratings, the Mavs offense is WORSE while the defense is BETTER. That's pretty much the opposite of what was predicted by everybody. Dirk is Dirk again with Kidd. And as he goes, so do the Mavericks. It was worth it to get Kidd if it meant Dirk played at his MVP level of the past two years. Dampier is an actual NBA center with Kidd here. You can blame a lot of their recent struggles on Avery doing a bad job on the sidelines as much as you can Kidd. At the same time, they are 0-8 against good teams. Most of those games went to the wire and they were compe ive in them, but at some point you have to get some W's, not just moral victories.

It would've been better to make this trade last summer or three months from now. But I think it's foolish to say that this trade can't pay dividends next year.

[monosylab1k]

18 games should be enough time to gel.

are you kidding? for a point guard who relies on knowing & anticipating everything his teammates are going to do, to run a completely different offense, and to accept completely different coaching? one month is enough?

i was expecting better results than what we've seen, but what you just said is about is obtuse as it gets.

So if you trade Tony Romo mid-season to the Denver Broncos, and in one month he should run that offense to perfection?

[DaDakota]

Yao Ming will never stay healthy for an entire season. T-Mac is on the decline and even more injury prone than Yao.

Derek Fisher should be SUSPENDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi Jeff.

[Shank]

LOL - well as a fan of the team you seem to be burying your head in the sand.

It is fairly obvious this was a trade for THIS year, and next......but if it was clearly for NEXT year then why not make it in the offseason?

Dallas panicked, Cuban choked when he let Nash go, and should have ridden a team that won 67 games into the ground before blowing it up.

Jason Kidd......I mean come on.....unless he has great shooters at all 4 others spots on the floor, he is easily managed by the other team....don't guard him...let him shoot.

This trade was made for this year, not next, and not the future, for this year.....and next year unless they get a talent infusion they will be even worse...regardless of how much more time they have together.

You know why? Because TIME is what is NOT on Jason Kidd's side.

And the rest of the West is getting better while Dallas is sinking faster than the anic.

And Mono, when you grow up and learn more than 4 letter words or how to actually make a point, you will earn a reply, but until that time, you will just continue to look like a little kid........

DD

Mono's right. You should stick to your own team.

Kidd had great shooters at all 4 spots in NJ? I think it's easy to say Dallas surrounds him with more talent and better shooters. Again, the numbers come with time. It's ridiculous to think he's going to be considerably worse going into next season. As broken down as everyone thinks he is, he's still a high minute guy whose play is conducive to longevity. Besides, Nash isn't a spring chicken. (No need to bring up Harris, he wasn't the long-term solution here anyway)

Nash's success was tied to Don Nelson. If Nash were still here, he wouldn't have had the same numbers in Dallas under Avery's system. They wouldn't have made that run to the Finals in 2006 with Nash and Nelly's system. It just wouldn't have happened.

How can you say a team would be worse the next year when they have more time to play with their PG?

[monosylab1k]

And don't toss out that Josh Howard was initiating a good amount of the offense prior to Kidd coming over, and that is primarily the reason he has struggled.

This guy watches the Mavs a lot. Everyone knows that before the trade, the team ran their offense through Josh Howard. Devin Harris never touched the ball. Jason Terry just camped at the 3-point line. Dirk cleaned up whatever Howard couldn't get.

[DaDakota]

are you kidding? for a point guard who relies on knowing & anticipating everything his teammates are going to do, to run a completely different offense, and to accept completely different coaching? one month is enough?

i was expecting better results than what we've seen, but what you just said is about is obtuse as it gets.

So if you trade Tony Romo mid-season to the Denver Broncos, and in one month he should run that offense to perfection?

The first moderatly intelligent thing you have said and without a curse word to boot, well done.

It does take some time, which is why it was S T U P I D to make the trade. Dallas was already a contender, why mess it up?

They won 67 games and ran into a hot team last year....come on, they were almost at the top of the WC when this trade happened, now they are near the bottom.

Devin Harris was a tough matchup with his speed and penetration and had shown MAJOR growth in the last couple of years...heck he was even hitting some 3s this year.

You don't trade a good young player for an over the hill star, it never works.

Take it from someone who had to watch Pippen play in Houston, it never works out.

DD

[DaDakota]

This guy watches the Mavs a lot. Everyone knows that before the trade, the team ran their offense through Josh Howard. Dirk just cleaned up whatever Howard couldn't get.

I watch quite a few games, record others etc....Josh had the ball in his hands on the Wing a lot, not EVERY possession but the point was that Harris passed off to Dirk and Howard earlier in the shot clock and let them initiate the offense some.

Kidd is more of a look for a finisher type of player......it is an entirely different way of playing.

Meh, why do I bother, it is like explaining Calculus to a turtle.

DD

[monosylab1k]

Josh had the ball in his hands on the Wing a lot, not EVERY possession but the point was that Harris passed off to Dirk and Howard earlier in the shot clock and let them initiate the offense some.

This guy watches a lot of Mavs basketball since the trade. Everyone knows that Kidd doesn't pass off the Dirk or Howard early in the shot clock. He very rarely does that

[DaDakota]

Mono's right. You should stick to your own team.

Kidd had great shooters at all 4 spots in NJ?

No he didn't that was entirely my point if you don't surround him with 4 competent shooters he is easy to guard. Dallas does not have the personel that Kidd needs to truly succeed.

Nash's success was tied to Don Nelson. If Nash were still here, he wouldn't have had the same numbers in Dallas under Avery's system. They wouldn't have made that run to the Finals in 2006 with Nash and Nelly's system. It just wouldn't have happened.

How can you say a team would be worse the next year when they have more time to play with their PG?

Yeah, Nash has been terrible under D'Antoni....I mean just awful.....and he was terrible running the offense in Dallas.....it is always good to give up one of the top 5 players in the league at arguably the most important position....it worked out well for you guys didn't it?

I mean the guy you brought in to replace him, you just traded....for a guy who is older than Methusola.....

Bad trade...

DD

[DaDakota]

This guy watches a lot of Mavs basketball since the trade. Everyone knows that Kidd doesn't pass off the Dirk or Howard early in the shot clock. He very rarely does that

And if he does that, because it is Jason Kidd and you don't have to honor him, because he CAN'T SHOOT, it crowds the court for penetrating players like Josh.....

Again.....turtle....

DD

[monosylab1k]

Yeah, Nash has been terrible under D'Antoni

We all know D'Antoni and Don Nelson have completely opposite offensive philosophies. One guy is all about run-n-gun, and the other guy is all about....um......oh.

This guy knows his stuff

[DaDakota]

We all know D'Antoni and Don Nelson have completely opposite offensive philosophies. One guy is all about run-n-gun, and the other guy is all about....um......oh.

This guy knows his stuff

Yeah, Nash was terrible in Dallas, huh Turtle?

DD

[monosylab1k]

And if he does that

but already you said he didn't. he doesn't pass off and let Josh Howard create some offense. you claim to know this.

so either admit you have no clue what the you're talking about because you obviously don't, or just shut up and comment on your own team.

[monosylab1k]

Yeah, Nash was terrible in Dallas, huh Turtle?

Yeah Nash was coached by somebody other than Don Nelson in Dallas.

this guy knows his stuff

[DaDakota]

this guy knows his stuff

Thanks !!!!

Good luck with that number 14 lottery pick, tons of guys at that level turn around franchises.....

DD

[Shank]

Devin Harris was a tough matchup with his speed and penetration and had shown MAJOR growth in the last couple of years...heck he was even hitting some 3s this year.

He wasn't going to work out in Dallas anyway. Eventually, his speed and penetration will fail him. And even with all the supposed growth he'd has in Dallas, he'll never be what Kidd is even today.

The Kidd trade also brought them serviceable pieces in Allen and Wright. Both can play important roles with this team (Allen started for Dirk the other night). It's also because of this trade that we'll have to see very little, if any, Jason Terry at the point now that Lue is here.

As far as being a contender - yeah, maybe. The fans always think they're going to win the whole thing and there were a number of media outlets picking them to win the whole thing. But that doesn't mean the team itself has the make-up of a champion.

If you want to blame a lost season on anything, blame it on those that made the decisions to give roster spots to Eddie Jones, Juwan Howard and Devean George (eh...sometimes) while letting Mbenga and Fazekas just walk. Blame a coach that feels the need to micromanage every trip up and down the court - the same coach that felt the need to infuse the team with supposed veteran leadership (read: old guys) and a "system" that relies heavily on iso play. Blame the two seasons previous for seeping fear and doubt into a team that has taken such a large hit psychologically. Blame the stupid Maniaacs for all I care. But it's not right to blame any lack of success solely on the acquisition of Jason Kidd.

[DazedAndConfused]

Derek Fisher should be SUSPENDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[monosylab1k]

Thanks !!!!

Good luck with that number 14 lottery pick, tons of guys at that level turn around franchises.....

DD

Tell us more about how Steve Nash was successful in an isolation-heavy, half court offense not coached by Don Nelson or Mike D'Antoni. And explain more about how Nelson & D'Antoni have such differing offensive philosophies.

[monosylab1k]

this is like explaining Dallas Mavericks basketball to a guy who follows the Houston Rockets and doesn't know about the Mavericks.

oh wait...

[stretch]

Already? 18 games should be enough time to gel. Unfortunately Kidd doesn't have the speed anymore. A thing he was known for in his early days in New Jersey and Phoenix. Diop was playing 15 minutes and being very productive in rebounds and block in the little time he had. He was a defensive beast. Don't underestimate that.

shows how little you know about basketball to think that the on-court leader of the team can gel with a team of guys he has never played with before as a championship caliber team needs, within a month or two.

its like saying if you traded for a QB mid-season, that they should instantly gel after 4 or 5 games and lead their team to a SB. its ridiculous. chemistry is the most important thing to have for championship caliber teams. if you don't have chemistry, you will not win games, no matter how much talent you have on the team, as evidenced when the two Antoines came to Dallas, or when the Lakers got Malone and Payton. it doesnt always work that way.

EDIT : Sorry, I didn't see monos post. I took too long to type this post, and by time i actually posted it, there was a whole new page of replies, basically stating what I said here. lol

[DazedAndConfused]

^^Dakota doesn't know about basketball. He actually thinks Derek Fisher should be suspended based on that last play in the GSW game a few days ago. He's a complete moron.

[DaDakota]

Tell us more about how Steve Nash was successful in an isolation-heavy, half court offense not coached by Don Nelson or Mike D'Antoni. And explain more about how Nelson & D'Antoni have such differing offensive philosophies.

Nice try turtle.

I said the Mavs should have kept Nash, not that D'Antoni and Nelson have different philosophies, that is you trying to make up stuff.

Nash was fine in Dallas better than any PG on their team currently or since.

Big mistake......among several made by Cuban lately.

And this thread is about the trade for Kidd, read the topic....bad trade....bad move.....as I have said all along.

But, as you said...I know my stuff.

DD

[Shank]

No he didn't that was entirely my point if you don't surround him with 4 competent shooters he is easy to guard. Dallas does not have the personel that Kidd needs to truly succeed.



Yeah, Nash has been terrible under D'Antoni....I mean just awful.....and he was terrible running the offense in Dallas.....it is always good to give up one of the top 5 players in the league at arguably the most important position....it worked out well for you guys didn't it?

I mean the guy you brought in to replace him, you just traded....for a guy who is older than Methusola.....

Bad trade...

DD

Nash under D'Antoni (in a system similar to what he was already playing in Dallas) does not necessarily equal what he might have done under Avery. For all the MVPs, the hype and numbers Nash might have in Phoenix, he still hasn't made it to where the Mavs did once they played on without him. Avery probably would have canned him long ago anyway, after being fed up with his terrible defense.

[Findog]

With the fourteenth pick, Kevin Love might very well be around. There's our backup center for 10-15 minutes a night. I actually kind of hope we miss the playoffs.

As for Nash vs. Kidd, Kidd can still defend against bigger guards. Nash can't guard anybody. Kidd has trouble against the quick guys like CP3 and TP, but who doesn't? Nash is a better outside shooter. That's the difference between them.

As for Nash in Phoenix versus Nash in Dallas, how do you explain the Mavs getting better without him? Is it because the Mavs got a center who can defend opposing big men? In Dallas, he played the two-man game with Dirk and did the pick and pop with the other jumpshooters on the roster. In Phoenix, they run a lot more than even Nellie did, and he's feeding Amare and Marion in transition for easy layups and dunks. I have yet to hear a compelling explanation for how the Mavs left a le or two on the floor because they let Nash walk. Nash, Dirk, Finley and Shawn Bradley, we'd already seen how that played out.

And the Suns up to this point have been a vague facsimile of Nellie's Dallas teams, a great regular season team that literally gets physically ousted from the playoffs. Maybe Shaq changes that, but I still don't see it as that big of a mistake to let Nash walk. What has Phoenix done with him that Dallas hasn't?