No - The team is now weaker in crucial areas
Yes - Kidd is what is needed to get them that championship
Where did you say "per minute +/-?"
When people talk about +/-, it's generally gross +/-. Per minute stats when there is a huge discrepancy in minutes played are worthless. A player could have played 10 garbage minutes and the team outscored the other team by 10 points in a blowout and that player would have a 1.0 per minute +/-. Magloire has played less than 24 minutes in his Mavs career.
That's what 82games.com uses. per 48 to be exact.
And gross numbers don't do that? Harris has logged in almost 300 more minutes than Kidd on a winning team, of course his gross +/- would be significantly higher.When people talk about +/-, it's generally gross +/-. Per minute stats when there is a huge discrepancy in minutes played are worthless.
My whole point was to show how flawed the entire stat is anyways.
I voted.
Uh no that was not it. The +/- had very little effect on those things. Logging in more minutes doesn't help your +/-. Maybe you are talking about PER which I ignore. The pure stat of +/- favors Harris in both directions. When Harris was with Dallas and Kidd New Jersey and Kid in Dallas and Harris in New Jersey. This is not even counting the dropoff at backup center. The trade is a fail.
@ Mav fans who still have "hope". Only a fools hope if you ask me.
Kidd's age is a HUGE factor....thus the reason I believe it was a terrible trade.
DD
Why would you think that? How many banners are hanging from the rafters? How many LOBs are in our trophy case?
Doesn't matter. I thought if we avoided the Warriors last year, we had a chance to win it. The Warriors were the one team we couldn't matchup with. We were starting to dominate until Harris went down with an ankle sprain. Terry as full time point guard was trouble for us.
I hate to break it to you, but if we couldn't beat the Warriors with Damp suffering a torn rotator cuff and Dirk hobbling around on bone spurs, we sure as weren't going to beat the Spurs.
2 totally different matchups. You can't compare one matchup to another. Dirk is a matchup nightmare for the Spurs while the Warriors were a matchup nightmare for Dirk and the Mavs. The team was so athletic and Dallas had no low post player to punish them spelled a first round upset. The Spurs are definitely a much more comfortable matchup for the Mavs. At least they were before the trade. Don't know about now.
Yeah, because we swept San Antonio in 2006 and every game was by about 25 points. Dirk and Damp were not close to 100%. The Spurs would've beaten us.
Dirk was fine except he has a mental block against the Warriors and their style gets him tired. Mainly Stephen Jackson is what killed us and Avery deciding to start Devean George at Center.
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Yeah, and those pesky bone spurs. Which is why this year he's continued to suck against them this year.
Considering Dampier had a torn rotator cuff and wasn't effective, it wouldn't have done much good to play him heavy minutes.Mainly Stephen Jackson is what killed us and Avery deciding to start Devean George at Center.
Even so Diop should've been the second option. Yeah I guess we were too unhealthy last year. This year though we are healthy and should've sticked to Harris and Diop..
Yeah, and those pesky bone spurs. Which is why this year he's continued to suck against them this year.
Considering Dampier had a torn rotator cuff and wasn't effective, it wouldn't have done much good to play him heavy minutes.
Diop did play more minutes after G1.
G1 cost us the series. We were scarred after losing on our homecourt. We needed to hold serve against a great home team like Golden State.
Mavsfan1000,
You are 100% correct the Mavs were already a contender with Harris.....why take the massive risk?
Cuban's risky nature is costing this team, big time.
DD
He didn't say we were a contender with Harris, he said we were a championship team, which I must've missed. Harris is very good, but he was also injury-prone and inconsistent. If he could play 70+ a year and guard Paul, Deron and the other elite guards according to his reputation, it might've been worth blinking first.
You also fail to take into account that this team hinges on Dirk's performance, and he's pretty much playing the best basketball of his career right now with Kidd, even on one leg, and this stretch of basketball exceeds the 06 playoffs and the 07 regular season. He's not just putting up numbers, he's been tough.
But Fin, Dirk can be nuetrilized by quicker athletic players......
I do understand why you like the trade, I just disagree with it.
DD
Not on a consistent basis he can't. The "Dirk defense" has been around for a while. Not every team can implement it. You should know, because JVG first came up with it during that 05 playoff series. You guard him with a lanky three, you send a double team at his blind spots, or you don't, keep him guessing. If he puts the ball on the floor, send a second smaller defender to swipe at his dribble. Make him give the ball up and force his teammates to knock down shots and beat you. They did that against Houston and eventually pulled out the series, but failed to make the Warriors pay in 07. He broke out over the final two games of the Miami series.
In a trade like this, you have to give up something to get something. We will miss Devin's ability to create a one-man fastbreak at times, or to draw a charge. We will miss Diop's shotblocking. And as for Kidd, we will have to deal with his terrible midrange shooting and the fact that he probably only has about 2 good years left after this one.I do understand why you like the trade, I just disagree with it.
DD
On the flipside, we won't miss Devin's iffy outside shooting himself. We won't miss the way he telegraphs his passes and can't break down a defense the way Kidd can. We won't miss his penchant for getting injured and inability to stay on the court for a full season. We won't miss Diop's completely nonexistent offensive game and inability to punish smallball. We WILL welcome Kidd's leadership, poise, ability to create easier baskets for his teammates, better defense against big, physical guards like Manu and Baron Davis, and we also got a nice young swingman in Antoine Wright. He looks like he can be a valuable member of a rotation in this league. Kidd's contract is up after next season, and he will most likely sign an extension at a much more reasonable figure.
It was a tradeoff. We gave up something for sure, but we got something back. You seem to grasp the former but not the latter.
The Kidd trade obviously decimated the Mavs' ability to matchup with the Spurs. After all, of the Mavs two games in SA this year, they lost a game before the trade to SA by 2 points, and a game after the trade by 3 points.
God, losing Harris and Diop has really just destroyed the Mavs ability to even hang in the same gym as the Spurs.
hmm DD, your fans are making a statistical move here. Up to 40 percent now in favor of Kidd was a terrible trade. Will the poll keep inching upwards?
LOL - typical.....failing to acknowledge that someone might understand the point, but not agree with it.
As I said, I understand your point, but I think the Mavs gave up too much....which is the former and the latter.
DD
i think that it is a bad idea because he is all the team has and if they trade him they will lose all there games[B]
BTW - Bass had the highest +/- rating last night. since that is all that matters...
Bass > Dirk
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