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  1. #1376
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    If anything I have factored in errors on the side of conservatism to deflate your argument that my numbers are wrong...so I have nothing to prove...
    Does the falling mass increase as the building collapses?

    Yes or no.

  2. #1377
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    No

  3. #1378
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Does the falling mass increase as the building collapses?

    Yes or no.
    Then what happens to the rest of the building as it becomes separated from the part of the building that remains standing?

  4. #1379
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    It gets pulverized....that is, what doesn't collapse to the sides...see for yourself...


  5. #1380
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    It gets pulverized....that is, what doesn't collapse to the sides
    All the steel is pulverized into something without mass? Now you are ignoring laws of physics. You are extremely biased.

  6. #1381
    If you can't slam with the best then jam with the rest sabar's Avatar
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    Argument by physics is very weak IMO.

    You have to factor in friction, air resistance, a variable mass, and a variable opposing force. That is one nasty looking calculus equation that I seriously doubt anyone here can calculate, let alone a professional. Even if you assume the mass and forces are constant you are left with the gargantuan task of estimating those constants. Anyone can pick arbitrary numbers that both support and oppose the falling speed. Even modeling the falling speed of a basketball opposed only by air resistance is not easy and uses rather complex drag equations.

    Unless someone here has a PhD in mechanical physics, next.

  7. #1382
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    Argument by physics is very weak IMO.

    You have to factor in friction, air resistance, a variable mass, and a variable opposing force. That is one nasty looking calculus equation that I seriously doubt anyone here can calculate, let alone a professional. Even if you assume the mass and forces are constant you are left with the gargantuan task of estimating those constants. Anyone can pick arbitrary numbers that both support and oppose the falling speed. Even modeling the falling speed of a basketball opposed only by air resistance is not easy and uses rather complex drag equations.

    Unless someone here has a PhD in mechanical physics, next.

  8. #1383
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Argument by physics is very weak IMO.

    You have to factor in friction, air resistance, a variable mass, and a variable opposing force. That is one nasty looking calculus equation that I seriously doubt anyone here can calculate, let alone a professional. Even if you assume the mass and forces are constant you are left with the gargantuan task of estimating those constants. Anyone can pick arbitrary numbers that both support and oppose the falling speed. Even modeling the falling speed of a basketball opposed only by air resistance is not easy and uses rather complex drag equations.

    Unless someone here has a PhD in mechanical physics, next.

    Weak....

    Don't stop short, please tell everyone what friction and air resistance would do to falling mass....would it increase or decrease the time it would take for the building to collapse?

  9. #1384
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    $100 to the first person that can calculate a tensor field equation for the supporting force of one perimeter column of one floor of the WTC. Remember, the force will be variable depending on the mass above it and the orientation of the mass above it.

    It's easier to calculate a trajectory to the moon for a homemade rocket than to figure out the re ed amount of forces in a building collapse this large.

  10. #1385
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    Weak....

    Don't stop short, please tell everyone what friction and air resistance would do to falling mass....would it increase or decrease the time it would take for the building to collapse?
    It would decrease the time by a factor ranging from (0, infinity)
    Hence why speculation is 100% useless.

  11. #1386
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    what would a opposing force do to falling mass?

  12. #1387
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    It would decrease the time by a factor ranging from (0, infinity)
    Hence why speculation is 100% useless.
    it would actually increase the time....

  13. #1388
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    it would actually increase the time....
    Yes, I meant decrease velocity

  14. #1389
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    But what we don't know is the sums of these vector fields. The resistance if negligible would make the falling speed differ not greatly than the freefall. If the resistance is significant, then the speed should be much slower and hence something is amiss.

    But all people can do is speculate as to the opposing force to meet their agenda.

  15. #1390
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    No one can even solve the most simple formula, Newton's second law.

    Fnet = d/dt (mv)

    because mass and velocity are variable

  16. #1391
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    We don't know the exact vector numbers, but we know the mass of the falling part of the building, we know what mass the building was able to support before it collapsed, we know how fast the building fell with no resistance, we know that not all the mass fell on the part which was standing, we know that the building somehow gains acceleration or it couldn't have fallen in 10-12 seconds......we know that there was a resistance force, however negligible...

  17. #1392
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    ...that's science, you take what you know and you form conjectures then you try and find a contradiction that disproves your hypothesis...

  18. #1393
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    We don't know the exact vector numbers, but we know the mass of the falling part of the building, we know what mass the building was able to support before it collapsed, we know how fast the building fell with no resistance, we know that not all the mass fell on the part which was standing, we know that the building somehow gains acceleration or it couldn't have fallen in 10-12 seconds......we know that there was a resistance force...
    What is this "somehow gains acceleration" business? Did the government turn off the gravity?

  19. #1394
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    ...that's science, you take what you know and you form conjectures then you try and find a contradiction that disproves your hypothesis...
    But you don't know enough to even make an equation.

  20. #1395
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    What is this "somehow gains acceleration" business? Did the government turn off the gravity?
    Gravity is a constant 9.8 factor on earth....

  21. #1396
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    Gravity is a constant 9.8 factor on earth....
    Another thing you casually ignored.

  22. #1397
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    You forgot experimentation, the most important part of the scientific method.
    Until then it's all theorycrafting for lack of a better term, especially when we make multiple assumptions on something with thousands of variables that can't be held constant.


  23. #1398
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    But you don't know enough to even make an equation.
    We know enough to form a hypothesis, and your job, should you chose to accept it, to find am exception, or contradiction which proves the hypothesis is wrong..in science it's called proof by contradiction...

  24. #1399
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    Gravity is a constant 9.8 factor on earth....
    Technically it varies with height and region but I imagine that 9.8 is a fair average value.

    Contrary to the above comic, I am, in fact, going to bed.

  25. #1400
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    We know enough to form a hypothesis, and your job, should you chose to accept it, to find am exception, or contradiction which proves the hypothesis is wrong..in science it's called proof by contradiction...
    I didn't even have to go that far. You left out so many important variables and ignored common sense to the point that a non math major could point out just how bad your equation was.

    You provided your equation, I gave you proof that your equation sucks.

    You're welcome.

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