Spurs trade ideas

[CGD]

Great convo starter. kuddos.

I love trade talk as much as the next guy, but all these questions start with “what’s the goal”? Personally, for at least one more season, I’m still in the asset ac ulation and cycling through “older” young players phase. That, and I think this team can be compe ive for the playin as cons uted, even with Vic being a year away developmentally — or at least I dont think it’s valuable to throw good assets to chase a marginal improvement. That’s just me.

I’m mostly curious what happens with the trio of Keldon, Tre, and Zach. There is a clear value curve on their contracts, and i hope the team decides to sell as high as reasonably possible on each before their value decreases. For example, Tre is probably most valuable now to the trade deadline, and then he’s really useless to us for trade purposes.

It’s unfortunate that the Bucks have no real picks to trade, otherwise I think we can be a good dumping ground for a broken Middleton in exchange for some combination of the above 3.

[The Truth #6]

We have 4 point guards right now, basically. But a lot could change for next year. CP could be gone. Castle is likely starting. I doubt they want Blake over Jones long-term, but maybe they keep all three?

[Chinook]

Was that ad hominem attack necessary? It's a reflex or what??

Lastly you don't need to go extreme all the time and take any criticism or diff taste as being hatefull or based on emotions. There are plenty of diff opinions and analysis than yours. the point is to exchange

So you can't look for a personal attack (which you incorrectly call an ad hominem) in my post and them tell me that I need to learn to take criticism better. You made a bad take in a different thread and couldn't help but going down multiple rabbit holes with other posters. You certainly have work to do on that end.

I'm not a fanboy of anyone, my question was based on his limitations (that are not arguable) and valuable expiring contract

I too miss Tre Jones, but not so much bc he's amazing more bc Wesley and Brahman are awful

Of course Stephon isn't there yet, he's a rookie, but he's worth the price of his mistakes and needs PT

I'm not getting into Jones' limitations again, because that topic's been beat to death. Being exploitable is not the same thing as being bad. If a team thinks it's going to win by isoing the backup PG as its main game plan, the Spurs have already won.

Using words like "amazing" creates this situation that basically straw-mans me into saying Jones has to be some elite player. That's not the debate. He's a good player, objectively, compared to other PGs in the league. He isn't just good in comparison to Wesley and Branham. He was good before Wemby came into the league. He's just good. He's not "amazing", but he doesn't have to be to be worth keeping around. The Spurs should be trying to have at least 10 good players as they continue to build up their top prospects. Right now, they have nine. I don't think they should be interested in dropping down to eight just for shiggles.

Jones isn't taking any minutes from Castle. Stephon has never been and may never be the sole or even main ball-handler in his time with the Spurs. Jones would be another guy to play with him and to take on the on-ball duties when things get tough. Castle pairs very well with Paul right now for this reason. If the Spurs got someone like Coby White, it would just add another ball-handling option to the mix to protect against injury, foul trouble or guys just having off nights.

You suggested a trade for Coby White who could be a great idea and would make Tre redondant as well

Yeah, I suggested trading for White specifically with the idea that Jones would remain on the team. I don't think they're redundant at all. White at his size and with his shooting, would be the bench SG. Tre, with his better play-making and inside game, would be the backup PG. Next year, sure, we could see something like White, Vassell, Castle, Sochan, Wembanyama as the starting five. But that unit would have another PG-like player, another guy who played PG for part of a season, a third guy who has a budding PnR game and a young star who wants to play on the perimeter. That's a completely different type of situation than what the bench has going on right now. For this bench, I'd like a scoring guard who could drive and shoot to basically pair with Keldon in the second unit. Very few guys (especially who can fit into that trade slot previously mentioned) can meet that bar while also replacing Jones' strengths -- which as I said, are critically important to the Spurs maintaining the positive momentum Wemby shows. Maybe they'd get lucky with a buyout candidate, but that would warrant a different season than I projected here.

[Chinook]

Great convo starter. kuddos.

I love trade talk as much as the next guy, but all these questions start with “what’s the goal”? Personally, for at least one more season, I’m still in the asset ac ulation and cycling through “older” young players phase. That, and I think this team can be compe ive for the playin as cons uted, even with Vic being a year away developmentally — or at least I dont think it’s valuable to throw good assets to chase a marginal improvement. That’s just me.

I do have some quibbles though. The Spurs may be compe ive as constructed, but actually getting there or better yet, getting a top-six seed could be very helpful for the young guys. I'm in favor of making a move to help with that. There's a wide gap between trading a blue-chip pick like ATL 25 and trading a moderately protected pick like CHI 25. The team is drowning in picks and should be looking to convert them into tangible assets. Turning one of their lesser picks into a young starting-caliber guard seems like a good use of that. Despite the talk about how great this draft is, the Spurs could easily get two mid- to late-lottery picks, and those guys are probably not going to be the game-changers tankers are hoping for. The definitely shouldn't pencil those picks to be key rotation players next season.

Also Wemby is more than one year away from being a true contending hub. But he's definitely not too young to get playoff experience.

I’m mostly curious what happens with the trio of Keldon, Tre, and Zach. There is a clear value curve on their contracts, and i hope the team decides to sell as high as reasonably possible on each before their value decreases. For example, Tre is probably most valuable now to the trade deadline, and then he’s really useless to us for trade purposes.

See, to me "as constructed" means with those guys. They aren't incidental to the team's potential success. They're key to it. So it's either the Spurs are compe ive and thus shouldn't be looking to trade those guys, or the Spurs are looking to trade those guys because they aren't compe ive. The latter situation can happen, of course, but it's not what I was talking about. It's not that those guys are untouchable, of course, but the Spurs are past the point where they should be looking at good productive players as pieces to convert to future value.

[exstatic]

Tre archetype is actually one of the rarest in the league, there are very few surviving game managers. That is the type of player the team needs right now. There are probably 4 good ones remaining and we have 2 and even tried to get the other Jones for a couple of offseasons now.

Tre and his brother are nearly the same player, great game managers and very high asst/TO ratio, and Tyus has salvaged the Phoenix experiment by just allowing their stars to operate, and not have to run the offense. Teams are going to want that.

[baseline bum]

I think the Spurs are going to have a hard time holding onto Tre in free agency. Wouldn't surprise me to see him get offers around $20 million a year.

[CGD]

I think the Spurs are going to have a hard time holding onto Tre in free agency. Wouldn't surprise me to see him get offers around $20 million a year.

I would have agreed with you last year, but I do wonder if this is true in the new CBA. Seems like those type of deals in the future (basically MLE guys who get overpaid) will be super costly if not handled right.

[Pauleta14]

So you can't look for a personal attack (which you incorrectly call an ad hominem) in my post and them tell me that I need to learn to take criticism better. You made a bad take in a different thread and couldn't help but going down multiple rabbit holes with other posters. You certainly have work to do on that end

You're being childishly condescending when I'm only focused on the topic, you're basically making film in your head, thinking u know me and even mix up some convo with others posters that have nothing to do with this one.

I didn't say you need to learn criticism at all, read me again, I said you need to accept there are other opinions and no one holds any truth all the time as you seem to think, you don't have the slightest degree of agnosticism/humility and present your pov as truth and whoever disagrees is a "wembyite" (wtf is that ) dishonest etc

It's just insane

I genuinely gave it another try with you but it seems I was right from the start. You're not very smart

I'm not getting into Jones' limitations again, because that topic's been beat to death. Being exploitable is not the same thing as being bad. If a team thinks it's going to win by isoing the backup PG as its main game plan, the Spurs have already won.

Using words like "amazing" creates this situation that basically straw-mans me into saying Jones has to be some elite player. That's not the debate. He's a good player, objectively, compared to other PGs in the league. He isn't just good in comparison to Wesley and Branham. He was good before Wemby came into the league. He's just good. He's not "amazing", but he doesn't have to be to be worth keeping around. The Spurs should be trying to have at least 10 good players as they continue to build up their top prospects. Right now, they have nine. I don't think they should be interested in dropping down to eight just for shiggles.

Jones isn't taking any minutes from Castle. Stephon has never been and may never be the sole or even main ball-handler in his time with the Spurs. Jones would be another guy to play with him and to take on the on-ball duties when things get tough. Castle pairs very well with Paul right now for this reason. If the Spurs got someone like Coby White, it would just add another ball-handling option to the mix to protect against injury, foul trouble or guys just having off nights.

It is for you for sure, doesn't mean it actually is.

Forget the word "amazing" then, Tre is a liability on defense bc of his size and on offense bc of his shot. Those aren't opinions.

The fact that he isn't as much of a liability than Wesley or Brahman doesn't make him reliable.

Yeah, I suggested trading for White specifically with the idea that Jones would remain on the team. I don't think they're redundant at all. White at his size and with his shooting, would be the bench SG. Tre, with his better play-making and inside game, would be the backup PG. Next year, sure, we could see something like White, Vassell, Castle, Sochan, Wembanyama as the starting five. But that unit would have another PG-like player, another guy who played PG for part of a season, a third guy who has a budding PnR game and a young star who wants to play on the perimeter. That's a completely different type of situation than what the bench has going on right now. For this bench, I'd like a scoring guard who could drive and shoot to basically pair with Keldon in the second unit. Very few guys (especially who can fit into that trade slot previously mentioned) can meet that bar while also replacing Jones' strengths -- which as I said, are critically important to the Spurs maintaining the positive momentum Wemby shows. Maybe they'd get lucky with a buyout candidate, but that would warrant a different season than I projected here.

So now Tre is a good playmaker ...

Yeah as long as his job is only to pass to a 3pt shooter, he sucks below the FT line and can't do a simple P&R, not even tries to get better at it, only Devin tried and improved last season.

Tre is an overachiever, high IQ dude very well aware of his limitations who smartly never tries stuff he's not good at. The pb is that the team needs a PG who can do those stuff.

Why keep a player with such a low ceiling instead of looking for a player with a higher one? It makes no sense to me

Next season, it should be Castle starter, Cp3 with the 2nd unit or if he's gone another profle than Tre as backup PG

[Pauleta14]

I think the Spurs are going to have a hard time holding onto Tre in free agency. Wouldn't surprise me to see him get offers around $20 million a year.

Yeah and Biden should win the elections. Wait...

The sniffer syndrom is strong smh

[jesterbobman]

I think Tre is solid, and being really good as an NBA team requires both top end talent and a bunch of average players / average minutes from guys with limitations.

Tre is probably a ~ #35 PG in the NBA. Not amazing, has limitations, but not making mistakes, and organising is really critical. Also, he's 24. He's not over the hill, he was probably better as an NBA player than Coby White up until the 22-23 season, and while I get you don't want a good reserve as your starter, there's a world of difference between competent backup and young guy with better tools though worse play.

Replacing all our below average bench minutes (from Malaki, Blake, Keldon, Collins) with players who are the equivalent of how good Tre Jones is probably makes us 8 - 10 wins better.

[baseline bum]

Yeah and Biden should win the elections. Wait...

The sniffer syndrom is strong smh

I see you still can't resist making an ass of yourself

[Bruno]

The Spurs could be a playoff team, or at least a play-in team if they hold serve. We're talking as if the Spurs are horrible and I'm trying to push them to make a move for a star. They're mediocre, and I'm talking about making a moderate move for a guy who could start next year and beyond and who has the skill-set to both compliment and offset Sochan and Castle. It's a way to reward the players for being in that position at the deadline and the futureproof the roster from Paul and Jones walking in an off-season where the Spurs still won't have significant cap space.

I'm not saying your trade idea is bad, it's just I don't see Spurs doing a trade. Last Summer, Spurs had about $28M in cap space and the $8M room exception. Their first FA target was a 39 years old Chris Paul. After getting him, they focused on using what was left to get future draft assets. They're sticking to the slow rebuild strategy.

I think Spurs priority is right now to keep as much roster flexibility before the draft. They want that, whoever is the BPA, will also be a good fit with the team. If they did, for example, a Coby White trade, it makes drafting a combo guard more difficult because that player would have a hard time getting playing time.

They could be less draft centered at the trade deadline if the draft looks weaker than now and/or if Spurs various first round picks aren't projected to be as high as they currently are.

[Pauleta14]

I see you still can't resist making an ass of yourself

The irony

Don't cry kiddo, it's ok to be wrong. You nust be used to by now

[Atl Spur]

I think Tre will be traded and Blake retained; Blake has potential position flex ( Nunez can come over next year also ).

[Chinook]

I'm not saying your trade idea is bad, it's just I don't see Spurs doing a trade. Last Summer, Spurs had about $28M in cap space and the $8M room exception. Their first FA target was a 39 years old Chris Paul. After getting him, they focused on using what was left to get future draft assets. They're sticking to the slow rebuild strategy.

I think Spurs priority is right now to keep as much roster flexibility before the draft. They want that, whoever is the BPA, will also be a good fit with the team. If they did, for example, a Coby White trade, it makes drafting a combo guard more difficult because that player would have a hard time getting playing time.

They could be less draft centered at the trade deadline if the draft looks weaker than now and/or if Spurs various first round picks aren't projected to be as high as they currently are.

Indeed. I don't disagree with what the Spurs' plan was coming into the year. However, I hope they're more flexible to how the year actually breaks down. They definitely don't seem to be hard tanking at this point. Unless the league gave them a warning, I think they're willing to lose draft position on their natural pick in order to see how far their roster takes them. My point is that if the Spurs find themselves in the mix in February, I could see them thinking the difference between their natural pick being 11th versus 16th isn't more valuable than giving Wemby, Vassell and Sochan playoff experience. Of course, with given last year's results, maybe the Spurs don't want to pass up on any chance to win the lottery. But if that's their mentality, they should start finding ways to hold guys out sooner than later.

[LeBowen]

Indeed. I don't disagree with what the Spurs' plan was coming into the year. However, I hope they're more flexible to how the year actually breaks down. They definitely don't seem to be hard tanking at this point. Unless the league gave them a warning, I think they're willing to lose draft position on their natural pick in order to see how far their roster takes them. My point is that if the Spurs find themselves in the mix in February, I could see them thinking the difference between their natural pick being 11th versus 16th isn't more valuable than giving Wemby, Vassell and Sochan playoff experience. Of course, with given last year's results, maybe the Spurs don't want to pass up on any chance to win the lottery. But if that's their mentality, they should start finding ways to hold guys out sooner than later.

I don't see how we could possibly get into top5 odds with East being so weak, but top10 odds in this draft are fine.
If this draft was on the level of last one, we would've probably seen some more winning moves. But this class seems too good to pass on.

Another issue is that these days every player that's worth anything costs a lot. We got plenty of picks, but trading 4 FRPs for Bridges is insanity, even if those picks aren't projected to be in the lottery.
Too many variables have to allign for a trade to be worth it these days. Wright needs to stay ready and jump at every good opportunity, similar to what Boston did with Derrick, Jrue and Porzingis.
This new CBA plays to our advantage because Wemby will be the best player in the league in an era with no suprteams, but it also means we shouldn't trade for max contract players if they're not 100% worth it.

[baseline bum]

The irony

Don't cry kiddo, it's ok to be wrong. You nust be used to by now

Really? You're the one who was throwing a hissy fit post after post of 'l3@Rn 2 rEAd' because I wasn't able to read posts you never made.

[Pauleta14]

Starting or not won't matter much imo

Spurs don't have anyone in the roster capable of doing what he does on defense (man to man + bigger bodies) AND on offense (penetrations, fouls baiting, P&R below FT line), especially with Sochan out he can't be used less than 25' and he's a lot more ready than Wemby was physically and can handle +30' easy.

Just please no injury...

[Pauleta14]

Really? You're the one who was throwing a hissy fit post after post of 'l3@Rn 2 rEAd' because I wasn't able to read posts you never made.

Yes genius, Tre is so vastly underpaid..

You're entertaining me, I give u that

[baseline bum]

Yes genius, Tre is so vastly underpaid..

You're entertaining me, I give u that

How triggered are you to start whining about Biden in a thread about Spurs trade ideas?

[Leetonidas]

Just read some article about Butler possibly being on the trade market and some NBA executive thinks SA is a dark horse landing spot what an absolute crock of

[Pauleta14]

How triggered are you to start whining about Biden in a thread about Spurs trade ideas?

Nah Biden was just to troll, I dgaf

I can't ignore the way you and some of ur ST mates acted like low IQ bullies when politic was a topic. I know how it gets u all emo

It worked

[baseline bum]

Nah Biden was just to troll, I dgaf

I can't ignore the way you and some of ur ST mates acted like low IQ bullies when politic was a topic. I know how it gets u all emo

It worked

lol look in the mirror

[ambchang]

As unpopular as it sounds, im in the camp of having the spurs build the skeleton of the team, the add the remaining pieces through trades and FA signings.

The main point of contention is around FOs ability to draft, and despite majority opinion on ST, I think the spurs drafted pretty well

KJ is actually a good pick considering he was end of first round
Vassell was a good pick
Sochan was at least an average pick, if not a good pick
Wemby is a no brainer
Castle appears to be a good pick from what we can see so far.

Wesley and Braham are meh picks.
Second round picks are supposed to be swings, but tre is a good pick. The rest are meh so far.

I felt the spurs are envisioning the end product and then drafting accordingly, which is not a bad approach.

My concern is more around development. It seems the players are treading water for a few years and the progress is slow. The plays and lineups are also mystifying.

[stnick2261]

As unpopular as it sounds, im in the camp of having the spurs build the skeleton of the team, the add the remaining pieces through trades and FA signings.

The main point of contention is around FOs ability to draft, and despite majority opinion on ST, I think the spurs drafted pretty well

KJ is actually a good pick considering he was end of first round
Vassell was a good pick
Sochan was at least an average pick, if not a good pick
Wemby is a no brainer
Castle appears to be a good pick from what we can see so far.

Wesley and Braham are meh picks.
Second round picks are supposed to be swings, but tre is a good pick. The rest are meh so far.

I felt the spurs are envisioning the end product and then drafting accordingly, which is not a bad approach.

My concern is more around development. It seems the players are treading water for a few years and the progress is slow. The plays and lineups are also mystifying.

I agree with you on all of that and hope a new coach will be able to spur the development part.