I think a big part of the reason why Pop has decided to let Bowen fall out of the rotation is that as much as his defense is better than Finley's or Udoka's, opposing teams basically have ZERO respect for his offensive game. They'll live with him taking those corner 3's...they'd rather have that, then one of the Big 3 taking a shot. Basically, when Bowen is in the game it's a 4 on 5 matchup for the opposing team.
Even when Udoka or Finley are missing their shots, at least the opposing team's respect their offensive game enough to defend them. I'm not saying I agree with the NOT playing Bowen part, but perhaps this is Pop's line of thinking....
Bruce knows the system well though, so even if he is an offensive liability, he knows the offense. He knows where people are supposed to be at times, and can swing the ball to the right person, make the open shot, etc. At least Bruce has a history of making his open 3's rather than Udoka bricking about 5 in a row the other night in New Orleans.
Too many lineup changes - Duncan not being the center of the offense anymore, I think makes the Spurs doubt that they're playing Spurs basketball, the one we've had for 11 years.
I think we should go back to 4 down again.
Bowen is getting old. Vaughn is getting old. Pop knows this, and he's either conserving minutes or giving minutes for the future.
Anyone on this thread who would rather have Mason on the starting lineup over Manu has been sipping too much wine, like Pop. That would be equivalent to saying, I would rather have George Hill starting than TP. Please get real!! And speaking of TP, I agree wholeheartedly with the poster who said Manu, with his smarts, team basketball approach and his passing ability would make a much better point guard than TP. SO, I believe that for the rest of this season the Spurs should start Manu as PG and Tony as the shooting guard and let them run rampant. I think that combination would also allow them to play together better because Manu loves to pass and Parker loves to recieve, more than he likes to give(the ball that is).
What do you think Spurs nation?
you're the ST most annoying poster by far
Right, Pop hasn't even given Bowen the chance to up. He's never on the court anymore. It's a disgrace and a complete lack of coaching sensibility to sit Bowen(an NBA all defensive player that has gone to war and won the wars with the big 3) for entire games when, in fact, defense is exactly what we have needed down the stretch.
Yep, it's been an epic failure watching these rancid rotations Pop is putting on the court. It might have been acceptable when Gooden was new and Manu was out, but now, what is the excuse Pop? The starting line-up should be a no brainer. Pop is wigging out and creating uncertain roles for the players. Now is the time to focus on their roles and honing that down.
ing Pop
That's a big problem.Now TD isn't at 100% but if he begins to feel really better he must be the center of the offense again.
All begins with TD.I'm tired of the ing pick & rolls to end with 3's.More post game and Tim moving the ball from there.
That very well could be what Pop is thinking ........ but it doesn't make much sense. Bowen is shooting the three-pointer better than he has at any point in his career other than when he led the league during the 2002-03 season. If teams want to leave him open, I'll take as many open Bowen three-pointers as they are will to give. No team has beat the Spurs in the playoffs with the strategy of leaving Bowen open.
And really, teams haven't been showing him any less respect than usual. They're playing the same defense on him as usual. But it does appear as if Pop thinks the team needs more offense than what Bowen can give ... even though Finley's offensive game is basically like Bowen's except he can shoot from more spots on the court and Udoka's offensive game usually is a liability more than an asset.
If Bowen's age caused him to lose his shooting stroke, then I could see Pop's strategy. Or if Bowen was getting eaten alive on defense like Finley or Udoka last night. But Bowen is still the best perimeter defender on the team by far and he's probably the best wide open three-point shooter at this point.
It's just a disgrace that Pop isn't going to let Bowen prove his worth on the court. Instead, he's going to sit him behind two scrubs and then release him in the offseason to save money.
Wait, are you saying that Bowen is shooting the three pointer better this season than any other time in his career? Because that could be a little misleading given that he hasn't really played many games and that stat may appear slightly skewed given the small sample.
And honestly, from what I can remember from early on in the season when Bowen was still getting some good playing time, he wasn't exactly shooting lights out.
Also, I'm not sure where you think Finley's offensive game is more like Bowen's except he can shoot in more spots...I mean you kind of just contradicted yourself. You're right in that Finley and Bowen basically can't create their own shots, but I mean, that can be said for any player on the Spurs except for the Big 3. Bowen can shoot the corner 3 and that's about it. Finley can hit the 3 from anywhere on the court, he can hit a mid range shot, and from time to time, he can even run the floor and make a basket in transition (at least better than Bowen). Again, even when Finley's shot isn't falling, teams rarely want to leave him open.
I remember last season against the Lakers...defense wasn't the problem. The Spurs couldn't make shots to save their lives and was a big part of why that series ended in 5 (other than the Ginobili factor). And while Bowen did a commendable job on Kobe...at least better than Finley or Udoka could have, what I remember is Kobe basically having to play ZERO defense on the other end of the court, Spurs playing 4 on 5 as I mentioned before. Kobe or whoever was guarding Bowen at the other end of the court, basically left him alone and would go help out on a Parker drive or hard double team on Duncan, etc.
Anyways, while I definitely don't agree with not playing Bowen at all, I can sort of see where Pop is going with this. I just think he needs to replace Udoka's minutes with Bowen's and all would be a lot better.
Three-point percentage is three-point percentage. If Pop wants a larger sample size, then play Bowen more. He's shooting 42.9% on threes this year.
Actually, he was shooting lights out. 44.7% from the field, 43.5% on three-pointers prior to the All-Star break. 95% of shooters in the league would love those percentages.
How is that a contradiction? Bowen is a spot up shooter from the corner. Finley is a spot up shooter from the corners and the arc. Those two extra spots on the court aren't worth putting a player out there as your lead defender even though said player is the worst perimeter defender on your team.
I've never seen a team too scared of Finley. Last night was a good example. The Thunder left him so open that he led the team in field goal attempts.
Everyone knows Finley is a streaking shooter. In two or three games out of ten, he'll be on fire. The rest of the time other teams can ignore him.
The thing is though that the same strategy was employed against Bowen in 2003, 2005 and 2007. It's not like just last year teams were leaving Bowen. In fact, the Suns made it a priority to face guard him the entire series. The Lakers left Bowen wide open in 2003 and the Spurs still beat them.
And as long as we are mentioning the Lakers series, it should be noted that the Spurs actually outscored the Lakers in that series in the minutes Finley wasn't on the court. Think how amazing that is. The Spurs lost in five games yet take away Finley's pitiful performance and they were actually winning that series.
If Pop were benching Bowen for a player who could potentially be a difference maker or a young player who could grow into a larger role down the line, then I could understand. But for Finley and Udoka? Two proven chokers who were HORRIBLE against the Lakers last year. That's just crazy.
Great read timvp
I don't know what is worst, Bruce getting 2 straight DNP-CD or Thomas going to the game only in the 4th quarter.
Like I wrote yesterday this is the worst Pop is coaching since he became a coach
I will not accept any excuses for the Spurs losing to the Thunder last night.
Badly done Spurs- though I am not going to hold it against you guys past this post.
Like that lineup/rotation.
Thanks for the honest initial reaction, Timvp.
Go Spurs !
Timvp...awesome job summing up everything that irritated me about the game last night. Too much Finley, too much Udoka, too much Vaughn and too little Mason, Hill, Bowen and Thomas. In some of the games lately I figured Pop was coaching in a way that he didn't want to show his hand to future playoff opponents, but against OKC there was no excuse for what we all had to witness.
I'm disappointed in everything from last night except your recap.
Please email this to Pop.
I want to point out the obvious:
We all still support the Spurs and really want them to win !
If we didn't care about the Spurs or want them to win, we wouldn't give our honest and frank analysis of the situation. This is what many of us see. We can't talk about the Spurs honestly and and not address what many of us see as the cause of their bad recent play and what that bodes for the future.
If we are to have a real conversation, then these are the things that need to be said. It's about keeping it real.
None of this conversation means that we don't still totally support the Spurs or want them to win. In fact, it means just the opposite. We still totally do support the Spurs and want them to win.
I agree with Timvp and the many others who want to see:
More Bruce, less Finely,
Keep Mason as shooting guard and don't ruin his confidence
More Thomas as the second big
Hill needs to play back up point guard and get virtually all of those minutes.
JV needs to play less.
I think that Pop hurt Mason and Hill the most by playing them out of position (in Mason's case) and not playing Hill much if at all as back up point guard.
The team lacks chemistry, cohesion, an iden y, doesn't know what they are doing on either end of the floor.
The pieces are here, if healthy enough, to win, but the management of the pieces seems poor.
And I say that because until we are honest about the problems, we can't fix them and improve.
And I want the Spurs to improve and win, especially in the Playoffs !
Go Spurs !
that's the thing. i see this all the time on the EN comments, any time somebody questions anything about the team or pop the nuts start flipping out that everybody hates the team. that's fine, commenters can do whatever, but the thing that gets to me is that the EN writers are too scared to question things. First they were afraid that Pop would make fun of them. Now that Pop really doesn't have room to call questions about what he's doing stupid, the writers seem afraid to question things because of the negative feedback from the commenters. Pop has been hugely successful in the past, but this season isn't made up of the past. Where is the San Antonio media on this?I want to point out the obvious:
None of this conversation means that we don't still totally support the Spurs or want them to win. In fact, it means just the opposite. We still totally do support the Spurs and want them to win.
Great point. If the EN writers were asking about this or calling him on this #$#$ then he would be confronted by reality and have to justify it or at least be aware of the view of those watching the team. And we would hopefully at least get some idea of what he is thinking.
Go Spurs !
I think it is a fair assessment. If only, Pop reads ST, he would know what fans think about the spurs...I want to point out the obvious:
We all still support the Spurs and really want them to win !
If we didn't care about the Spurs or want them to win, we wouldn't give our honest and frank analysis of the situation. This is what many of us see. We can't talk about the Spurs honestly and and not address what many of us see as the cause of their bad recent play and what that bodes for the future.
If we are to have a real conversation, then these are the things that need to be said. It's about keeping it real.
None of this conversation means that we don't still totally support the Spurs or want them to win. In fact, it means just the opposite. We still totally do support the Spurs and want them to win.
I agree with Timvp and the many others who want to see:
More Bruce, less Finely,
Keep Mason as shooting guard and don't ruin his confidence
More Thomas as the second big
Hill needs to play back up point guard and get virtually all of those minutes.
JV needs to play less.
I think that Pop hurt Mason and Hill the most by playing them out of position (in Mason's case) and not playing Hill much if at all as back up point guard.
The team lacks chemistry, cohesion, an iden y, doesn't know what they are doing on either end of the floor.
The pieces are here, if healthy enough, to win, but the management of the pieces seems poor.
And I say that because until we are honest about the problems, we can't fix them and improve.
And I want the Spurs to improve and win, especially in the Playoffs !
Go Spurs !
The most prominent thing that bothers me is that, we lack iden y. We are no longer a great defensive team(yes we are good, but not as great as previous years). And our offense lives and dies by the 3's. Taking 25 to 30 3 pointers is way too many. Offense has to be run through the big three. I think it is been a while since we scored 100+ points against playoff teams. That is simply disappointing. This in spite of pop putting more shooters and
not playing enough of Bowen, Hill and Thomas.
Yes, way too many 3 point shots and not enough of them are good 3 point shots. Not all 3 point shots are created equal.
A 3 point shot after a team has doubled off of a shooter onto Timmy is a good 3 pointer if it is open. A 3 point shot if Tony or Manu has just penetrated the lane and caused the defense to collapse leaving an open 3 point shot is a good 3 point shot. And occasionally wide open transition 3 point shots can be good shots.
But too many of our 3 point shots are not good 3s. And even good 3 point shots can be taken too frequently. We should not be shooting 25 3 point shots a night.
Go Spurs !
No denying folks... this team is not ready for the playoffs.
Hookers and blow can fix anything.
@ Borosai's sig.
TIMVP
You have always been a thoughtful, methodical and balanced analyst of the spurs' team members and contributions. You have not changed. You are 1,000% right. Thank you for being willing to take the time and effort to say what needs to be said.
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