52-30

[Kaster]

Actually...the funny part is when you go on adnauseum about what people think...yet when I made that point about Bush it went totally over your head...

Probably because it was stupid and irrelevant to my point about Bush and your sorry ass state helping to reelect him. Apparently, that either went over your head or you were too stupid to respond to it.

I guess that's because you believed the media when they said Bush wouldn't win....dint ya?

Oy, good lord, the bad points keep on rolling. Man up if you voted for Bush. It's OK, the American public forgives you and your state.

Must suck not having a mind of your own. Must also lead to you finding out you were wrong, the hard way, often.

You're too funny.

[Kaster]

I got your point on the les.....you think Kobe = Vinny Del Negro

No, you missed the point, per usual. Read again if you're still confused.

And you think Shaq taking the money and running from the franchise that drafted him and going to the largest city in the NBA, to a legenday franchise, GM, and later coach, also equals winning with what he had....

Read again kid; Shaq with the Magic in 94 and 95 had more success than Drob ever had in his entire seven seasons leading the Spurs.

Winning with what he had means staying in Orlando...

You got it wrong, again. Amazing.

[whottt]

LMAO, still not reading I see. I said forget the Lakers seasons if you want, he still kicked ass with about as good a supporting cast as Drob had in 94 and 95, to which you replied....yeah well, that's right, you didn't reply.

He didn't kick Drob's ass. He got his ass kicked by Drob...

No, but he did get to the Finals, and he did indeed beat the Jordan-led Bulls. What did Drob do the other year he had Rodman? That's right, nothing, again.

You ing kidding me right? The Jordan lead Bulls of 94-95?

What did Shaq do the year he had Rodman? Get swept by us(I don't give a if Rodman was on the team or not, he was cut because he was pain in the ass that could only be handled by a guy like Jordan)

What? Put the crackpipe down kid, the Magic beat the Bulls in 94-95.

That was Scottie's team...Jordan was back for all of about 10 games and had his head up his ass...he was getting punked by Mugsy Bogues...

LOL, so Shaq, pre-prime form, didn't always beat Drob during his prime in the limited times they met before he blew out his back. What did he do to Drob after the back injury? Exactly.

He put up about slightly better numbers he always did against Drob...the difference was that Drob wasn't the primary option on offense...The one game where Drob was made the primary option...Drob whupped his ass and had him on the bench in foul trouble...like he did any Center that tried to guard him 1 on 1......and this was a 35 year old Drob...

Becuase you see you are wrong about 1 thing....No one could guard Drob one on one in his prime and as the primary option on offense...because he was an automatic foul out...this means Hakeem...this means Shaq...

While Drob did guard Shaq one on one, in Shaq's prime...and he won two les doing it.

And to tell you the truth..it's not really being fair to Drob saying that Shaq beat him in the playoffs as many times as he beat Shaq...it's not fair because Drob had to come back from having numbness in his legs in one of those playoff matchups...the truth is, healthy and old Drob was 2-1 against Shaq in the playoffs...

And more importantly...he was 3-2 against your mighty ing Lakers...playing in the smallest market in the NBA.

I'm just glad Drob told LA to off when they tried to steal him away from the Spurs....I'm also glad we didn't draft Shaq instead of Drob...because if those things had happened different...not only would we not have 2 les right now...we wouldn't have a team.

Drob brought the mountain to Mohammed...Shaq had to go to it...and I don't give a if Duncan was on this team or not...no one player has ever won a championship...Your boy Kobe is finding that out the hard way...along with you.

[whottt]

Read again kid; Shaq with the Magic in 94 and 95 had more success than Drob ever had in his entire seven seasons leading the Spurs.

The only thing Shaq did in 94-95 that Drob never did in his first 7 years was get his ass ing swept in a series he had HCA.

Guess what? They don't give you the O'Brien Trophy for making the finals...

If you think getting swept by the Rockets means the Shaq was better than a team that lost to them 2-4...you are an idiot.


Shaq's never done without having a top 5-8 Guard on his team....look at his rookie season(the only season he hasn't had one) if you doubt this...he didn't even make the playoffs.

[Kaster]

You ing kidding me right? The Jordan lead Bulls of 94-95?

No kid, not really.

What did Shaq do the year he had Rodman? Get swept by us(I don't give a if Rodman was on the team or not,

LOL. You don't care if Rodman was on the team or not? OK kid?

And why the would you bring up 99 when you yourself said we shouldn't use matchups after Drob blew his back out? And why the would you bring it up anyway, Duncan did the ass kicking, not Drob.

he was cut because he was pain in the ass that could only be handled by a guy like Jordan)

Yeah, it's a wonder he won two les with the Pistons. Moron.

That was Scottie's team...Jordan was back for all of about 10 games

17 actually.

and had his head up his ass...he was getting punked by Mugsy Bogues...

Boy, you really aren't too smart. Jordan put up 31.5/6.5/4.5 on 48.4% shooting the 94-95 postseason. It was a media created myth that he wasn't himself. For a guy that pisses and moans about the media, you sure bought into the whole "Jordan was rusty" bit.

Oh, and facts remain; a Shaq-led team was the only team ever to beat a Jordan-led Bulls team. Pippen-led? You're truly braindead. Ask any Bulls fan.

He put up about slightly better numbers he always did against Drob...the difference was that Drob wasn't the primary option on offense...The one game where Drob was made the primary option...Drob whupped his ass and had him on the bench in foul trouble...like he did any Center that tried to guard him 1 on 1......and this was a 35 year old Drob...

35 year old Drob, what in the are you talking about? You're using the post back injury years where Drob was at best a 2nd option, to prove that he punked Shaq, yet you yourself said you didn't want to use those years in a direct comparison because of that injury. And then you go and say Shaq's numbers were "slightly" better? Shaq absolutely owned the Spurs from the 99 postseason and on. You're stupid and blind if you think otherwise.

While Drob did guard Shaq one on one, in Shaq's prime...and he won two les doing it.

Uh, and you contradict your own point, since Drob was no where near the first option on offense in 99 or 03 son. In fact, what did he average in both the 99 and 03 postseasons, 13 or 14 ppg? Yeah, what an accomplishment.

And to tell you the truth..it's not really being fair to Drob saying that Shaq beat him in the playoffs as many times as he beat Shaq...it's not fair because Drob had to come back from having numbness in his legs in one of those playoff matchups...the truth is, healthy and old Drob was 2-1 against Shaq in the playoffs...

Pure garbage excuses. Shaq wasn't totally healthy in either the 99 or 03 postseasons either, coming off of abdominal injuries in 99 and the toe surgery in 03. Injury excuse doesn't fly.

And more importantly...he was 3-2 against your mighty ing Lakers...playing in the smallest market in the NBA.

Who gives a crap what market he was in, or that he beat the NVE/E. Jones Lakers (it still took the Spurs 6 games to beat that team too).

I'm just glad Drob told LA to off when they tried to steal him away from the Spurs....

Good, Jesus freaks piss me off.

The only thing Shaq did in 94-95 that Drob never did in his first 7 years was get his ass ing swept in a series he had HCA.

Guess what? They don't give you the O'Brien Trophy for making the finals...

If you think getting swept by the Rockets means the Shaq was better than a team that lost to them 2-4...you are an idiot.

Guess what, Shaq beat all the compe ion he faced and got to a Finals. Drob did not. He beat a Jordan-led Bulls team, the only one to do so since the first season Phil Jackson came back and the Bulls barely lost to the Bad Boy Pistons (your buddy Rodman, who your leader Drob rejected, was on that team, remember him?). It’s irrefutable, Shaq had more success. Who knows how he would have done against the Spurs head to head in a series.

And , this was all before Shaq’s prime, that’s the funny part. I’d hate to see what a 28 or 29 year old Shaq would do to Drob. Oh wait, I already did. Complete destruction.

Shaq's never done without having a top 5-8 Guard on his team....look at his rookie season(the only season he hasn't had one) if you doubt this...he didn't even make the playoffs.

Yeah, as a 20 year old rookie with Scott and Anderson as his best player, and Tom Tolbert getting big minutes. Good call.

Anyway, in all of modern day basketball, only Dream has won with little talent on his teams, and I’m perfectly fine with Dream being called a better player than Shaq. No way in anyone with a brain buys that Drob was better than Shaq. Sorry, just ain’t happening.

[whottt]

No kid, not really.



LOL. You don't care if Rodman was on the team or not? OK kid?

I think the fact that he was on the team and then wasn't is telling...Rodman was a pain in the Ass.

And why the would you bring up 99 when you yourself said we shouldn't use matchups after Drob blew his back out? And why the would you bring it up anyway, Duncan did the ass kicking, not Drob.

Drob did the Shaq defending...not Duncan...and Drob was the only guy to score in double figures in every game of that post season run...Duncan had a game where he only scored 5 points...and we won.

Don't ing tell me we win that le without Drob...

Yeah, it's a wonder he won two les with the Pistons. Moron.

Yeah...and the Piston's also traded him when he became a ing headcase...

17 actually.



Boy, you really aren't too smart. Jordan put up 31.5/6.5/4.5 on 48.4% shooting the 94-95 postseason. It was a media created myth that he wasn't himself. For a guy that pisses and moans about the media, you sure bought into the whole "Jordan was rusty" bit.

Did he win the scoring le that season? Why not? He put up the PPG averages to do it....dip ...17 ing games is 17 games...Kobe had a stretch last year where he averaged about 40 PPG for 17 games...does that mean he was the leader of his team?

Oh, and facts remain; a Shaq-led team was the only team ever to beat a Jordan-led Bulls team.

Idiot. I didn't realize just how much of an idiot you were until you just made that statement.

Pippen-led? You're truly braindead. Ask any Bulls fan.

LMAO back to ask someone else....I don't need to ing ask someone else...go see who had more MVP votes that season(that's another one of your school girl criteria, so do it)

35 year old Drob, what in the are you talking about? You're using the post back injury years where Drob was at best a 2nd option, to prove that he punked Shaq, yet you yourself said you didn't want to use those years in a direct comparison because of that injury. And then you go and say Shaq's numbers were "slightly" better? Shaq absolutely owned the Spurs from the 99 postseason and on. You're stupid and blind if you think otherwise.

DRob V Shaq wasn't the reason we ever lost a series to you...Kobe was the reason..You just weren't watching.

Uh, and you contradict your own point, since Drob was no where near the first option on offense in 99 or 03 son. In fact, what did he average in both the 99 and 03 postseasons, 13 or 14 ppg? Yeah, what an accomplishment.

He was the primary option...for 1 game...in the 2001 playoffs after Duncan had a 9 point game...and he whupped up on Shaq and put his fat ass on the bench in foul trouble...that didn't stop Kobe and Fisher from destroying though...

You are an idiot if you expected Drob to put up similar numbers to his youth when he was only getting half as many touches and getting the ball with about 7 seconds left on the clock..even if he was still capable of doing it every game.

Pure garbage excuses. Shaq wasn't totally healthy in either the 99 or 03 postseasons either, coming off of abdominal injuries in 99 and the toe surgery in 03. Injury excuse doesn't fly.

Good, Jesus freaks piss me off.

Yeah but at least you don't hate...

Guess what, Shaq beat all the compe ion he faced and got to a Finals. Drob did not.

Only because he had to face the team that beat Shaq before the finals...idiot.

He beat a Jordan-led Bulls team, the only one to do so since the first season Phil Jackson came back and the Bulls barely lost to the Bad Boy Pistons

So in otherwords...he's not the only one to do it...so STFU.

That wouldn't be the same Jackson who Shaq won his les with right? He doesn't count according to you...why bring it up? It's all Shaq.

(your buddy Rodman, who your leader Drob rejected, was on that team, remember him?).

What?

It’s irrefutable, Shaq had more success. Who knows how he would have done against the Spurs head to head in a series.

It's very refutable...unless your idea of success is this:

Sweep
Sweep
Sweep
Sweep
Sweep

And , this was all before Shaq’s prime, that’s the funny part. I’d hate to see what a 28 or 29 year old Shaq would do to Drob. Oh wait, I already did. Complete destruction.

I bet you feel like a stud when you beat your grandpa in armwrestling don't you?

Yeah, as a 20 year old rookie with Scott and Anderson as his best player, and Tom Tolbert getting big minutes. Good call.

Who the cares...age doesn't rmatter emember?

Anyway, in all of modern day basketball, only Dream has won with little talent on his teams, and I’m perfectly fine with Dream being called a better player than Shaq. No way in anyone with a brain buys that Drob was better than Shaq. Sorry, just ain’t happening.

Anyone who saw them play knows Drob was better...including Shaq...why you think he hates?

[whottt]

San Antonio (94)

                POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA TGM-TGA ORB-TRB AS ST BL TO PF  TP
Reid,J.R.         F  25   5- 9    2- 4    0- 0    1- 8   0  1  1  1  4  12
Ellis,Dale        F  40   7-15    2- 2    1- 5    1- 9   0  1  0  3  2  17
Robinson,David    C  44   9-20    5- 7    0- 0    3-16   7  4  3  2  3  23
Daniels,Lloyd     G  36   3-14    0- 0    0- 1    6-11   1  3  1  2  5   6
Johnson,Avery     G  35   0- 8    6- 8    0- 0    0- 2  13  2  0  0  2   6
Carr,Antoine         25  11-15    1- 2    0- 0    4- 7   0  0  1  1  3  23
Anderson,Willie      15   0- 2    0- 0    0- 0    0- 1   1  1  0  0  1   0
Del Negro,Vinny      18   3- 4    1- 2    0- 0    0- 1   1  0  0  3  3   7
Smith,Larry           2   0- 0    0- 0    0- 0    0- 0   0  0  0  0  0   0
TOTALS              240  38-87   17-25    1- 6   15-55  23 12  6 12 23  94

     FG %: .437  FT %: .680  Three %: .167  Team Rebs: 7  Team TOs: 2


Orlando (90)

                POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA TGM-TGA ORB-TRB AS ST BL TO PF  TP
Tolbert,Tom       F  24   2- 6    2- 4    1- 1    2- 4   1  0  0  0  1   7
Bowie,Anthony     F  28   1- 6    1- 2    0- 0    1- 4   2  1  0  3  1   3
O'Neal,Shaquille  C  34   8-18    3- 5    0- 0    2-13   2  0  3  3  4  19
Anderson,Nick     G  38  10-26    4- 6    6-10    3- 7   0  0  0  3  2  30
Skiles,Scott      G  32   4-11    0- 0    2- 5    1- 4   7  0  0  2  5  10
Scott,Dennis         13   2- 7    0- 0    0- 2    0- 1   0  0  0  1  1   4
Kite,Greg             9   0- 1    0- 0    0- 0    0- 4   0  0  1  0  1   0
Royal,Donald         21   0- 1    5- 6    0- 0    3- 4   4  2  1  2  0   5
Williams,Brian       12   1- 4    0- 0    0- 1    2- 6   0  2  2  0  2   2
Kerr,Steve           17   1- 2    4- 4    0- 0    1- 2   3  0  0  1  2   6
Turner,Jeff          12   1- 4    2- 2    0- 0    1- 2   0  0  0  0  2   4
TOTALS              240  30-86   21-29    9-19   16-51  19  5  7 15 21  90

     FG %: .349  FT %: .724  Three %: .474  Team Rebs: 8  Team TOs: 0

               San Antonio               27 26 20 21 --  94
               Orlando                   19 21 23 27 --  90

Officials: DAN CRAWFORD, EDDIE F. RUSH, TOMMIE WOOD
Attendance: 15151  Time of Game: 2:15

Ass kicking! it looks like Shaq had better teamates as a rookie than Drob did. Too bad he couldn't get to the playoffs.

[whottt]

Orlando (93)

                POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA TGM-TGA ORB-TRB AS ST BL TO PF  TP
Bowie,Anthony     F  31   6-12    0- 0    0- 2    0- 4   4  0  0  1  1  12
Tolbert,Tom       F  36   8- 9    1- 1    1- 1    0- 5   1  0  1  0  4  18
O'Neal,Shaquille  C  32   7-11    1- 5    0- 0    3-13   1  1  2  8  5  15
Anderson,Nick     G  40   9-20    4- 6    2- 6    0- 7   3  3  0  1  3  24
Green,Litterial   G  42   5-11    2- 2    0- 0    1- 2   8  0  1  4  3  12
Royal,Donald         30   4- 9    2- 2    0- 0    4- 5   4  2  1  2  2  10
Kite,Greg            18   1- 3    0- 2    0- 0    2- 6   1  0  0  0  6   2
Kerr,Steve            6   0- 1    0- 0    0- 0    0- 0   1  0  0  0  0   0
Turner,Jeff           5   0- 1    0- 0    0- 0    0- 2   0  0  0  0  1   0
TOTALS              240  40-77   10-18    3- 9   10-44  23  6  5 16 25  93

     FG %: .519  FT %: .556  Three %: .333  Team Rebs: 7  Team TOs: 0


San Antonio (96)

                POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA TGM-TGA ORB-TRB AS ST BL TO PF  TP
Elliott,Sean      F  35   4-10    7- 9    0- 1    2- 4   2  0  0  1  0  15
Reid,J.R.         F  18   4- 8    2- 2    0- 0    1- 5   1  1  0  2  4  10
Robinson,David    C  43  11-20    8-12    0- 0    1- 7   4  3  1  2  3  30
Ellis,Dale        G  24   3-12    0- 0    0- 5    0- 3   1  0  1  1  0   6
Johnson,Avery     G  40   5-12    0- 0    0- 0    2- 2   9  2  0  3  4  10
Carr,Antoine         31   6-11    2- 3    0- 0    1- 8   4  0  1  2  4  14
Daniels,Lloyd        18   3- 6    0- 0    1- 1    4- 7   1  0  1  0  0   7
Anderson,Willie      17   1- 1    2- 2    0- 0    0- 1   4  1  1  1  1   4
Del Negro,Vinny       7   0- 0    0- 0    0- 0    0- 0   0  0  0  0  0   0
Smith,Larry           5   0- 1    0- 0    0- 0    1- 1   0  0  0  0  0   0
Mack,Sam              2   0- 1    0- 0    0- 0    0- 0   0  0  0  2  1   0
TOTALS              240  37-82   21-28    1- 7   12-38  26  7  5 14 17  96

     FG %: .451  FT %: .750  Three %: .143  Team Rebs: 8  Team TOs: 0

               Orlando                   26 17 24 26 --  93
               San Antonio               23 19 29 25 --  96

Officials: DARELL GARRETSON, TOMMY NUNEZ, KEN MAUER
Attendance: 16057  Time of Game: 0:00

Another ass kicking for fat Snaq!

[whottt]

        San Antonio (94) @ Orlando (84) 12/03/93


San Antonio (94)

                POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA TGM-TGA ORB-TRB AS ST BL TO PF  TP
Rodman,Dennis     F  39   2- 6    0- 0    0- 0    8-23   4  1  1  0  4   4
Anderson,Willie   F  41   7-19    2- 3    0- 1    1- 2   9  0  0  2  2  16
Robinson,David    C  45   6-17   11-14    0- 0    3-11  10  4  2  3  5  23
Ellis,Dale        G  35   8-14    4- 6    2- 3    1- 4   0  2  0  2  3  22
Knight,Negele     G  37   6-11    2- 3    0- 0    2- 3   1  1  1  2  5  14
Whitney,Chris         1   0- 0    0- 0    0- 0    0- 1   0  0  0  0  0   0
Reid,J.R.            12   2- 7    4- 4    0- 0    1- 2   1  1  0  2  3   8
Del Negro,Vinny      16   2- 5    0- 0    0- 1    0- 1   0  0  0  0  1   4
Floyd,Sleepy         14   1- 1    1- 2    0- 0    1- 2   0  0  0  0  0   3
TOTALS              240  34-80   24-32    2- 5   17-49  25  9  4 11 23  94

    FG %: .425  FT %: .750  Three %: .400  Team Rebs: 11  Team TOs: 0


Orlando (84)

                POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA TGM-TGA ORB-TRB AS ST BL TO PF  TP
Anderson,Nick     F  35   5-12    0- 0    1- 2    1- 8   2  1  0  1  2  11
Turner,Jeff       F  22   3- 5    1- 2    0- 0    0- 1   0  1  0  0  2   7
O'Neal,Shaquille  C  43   9-17    3- 6    0- 0    5-19   1  1  3  4  3  21
Hardaway,Anfernee G  34   4- 9    1- 1    1- 3    1- 3   4  2  0  1  2  10
Skiles,Scott      G  35   4-10    5- 6    0- 3    0- 0   7  0  0  6  4  13
Kite,Greg             5   0- 0    0- 2    0- 0    0- 0   0  0  0  0  1   0
Scott,Dennis         25   4-12    1- 2    1- 7    0- 2   3  0  0  1  4  10
Royal,Donald         23   1- 3    4- 8    0- 0    3- 3   2  1  1  0  4   6
Bowie,Anthony        18   3- 5    0- 0    0- 0    1- 1   0  0  0  0  1   6
TOTALS              240  33-73   15-27    3-15   11-37  19  6  4 13 23  84

     FG %: .452  FT %: .556  Three %: .200  Team Rebs: 9  Team TOs: 0

               San Antonio               30 22 20 22 --  94
               Orlando                   23 18 21 22 --  84

Officials: J CRAWFORD, Ron Olesiak, D JONES
Attendance: 15291  Time of Game: 2:11

Here Snaq...how about a nice triple double shoved up your ass courtesy of the Admiral.

And if you want he's got a 50 point game he can shove up your buttbuddy Alonzo's ass too.

[whottt]

            Orlando (103) @ San Antonio (111) 03/06/94


Orlando (103)

                POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA TGM-TGA ORB-TRB AS ST BL TO PF  TP
Avent,Anthony     F  21   2- 4    0- 0    0- 0    2- 4   0  0  1  0  2   4
Scott,Dennis      F  41   8-14    1- 2    4- 6    1- 3   6  1  2  1  3  21
O'Neal,Shaquille  C  39  11-20   10-15    0- 0    3-11   2  1  0  3  5  32
Hardaway,Anfernee G  37   4-19    3- 4    1- 3    3- 6   2  2  0  4  2  12
Anderson,Nick     G  35   7-12    0- 0    1- 4    0- 3   5  0  0  0  1  15
Rollins,Tree         12   1- 1    1- 2    0- 0    1- 3   2  0  0  1  1   3
Skiles,Scott         11   2- 3    0- 0    2- 2    0- 0   2  0  0  1  1   6
Krystkowiak,Larry    22   2- 4    0- 0    0- 0    3- 4   1  1  0  1  4   4
Bowie,Anthony        13   3- 4    0- 0    0- 0    0- 1   0  0  0  0  0   6
Royal,Donald          9   0- 0    0- 0    0- 0    0- 0   0  0  0  0  2   0
TOTALS              240  40-81   15-23    8-15   13-35  20  5  3 11 21 103

     FG %: .494  FT %: .652  Three %: .533  Team Rebs: 9  Team TOs: 0


San Antonio (111)

                POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA TGM-TGA ORB-TRB AS ST BL TO PF  TP
Ellis,Dale        F  41   9-13    1- 2    3- 5    3- 6   4  1  0  0  1  22
Reid,J.R.         F  27   2- 9    2- 4    0- 0    0- 3   2  0  1  0  1   6
Robinson,David    C  40  14-26    8- 8    0- 0    5-13   7  3  6  4  4  36
Del Negro,Vinny   G  25   6-11    0- 0    0- 1    2- 3   3  0  0  1  1  12
Anderson,Willie   G  42   7-15    0- 0    0- 0    2- 6   8  1  0  1  3  14
Rodman,Dennis        27   3- 5    0- 0    0- 0    5-10   0  0  0  2  2   6
Carr,Antoine         25   3- 6    2- 2    0- 0    0- 1   0  0  0  1  4   8
Floyd,Sleepy         13   1- 3    5- 7    0- 0    0- 3   4  1  0  0  2   7
TOTALS              240  45-88   18-23    3- 6   17-45  28  6  7  9 18 111

     FG %: .511  FT %: .783  Three %: .500  Team Rebs: 8  Team TOs: 0

               Orlando                   36 25 25 17 -- 103
               San Antonio               30 24 20 37 -- 111

Officials: Tommie Wood, Mike Mathis, Joe Forte
Attendance: 34325  Time of Game: 2:26

Don't like triple doubles?...here's a near quadruple double...on Snaq's fatass again courtesy of the Admiral...

[samikeyp]

LOL, the Sportsmanship and Community Assist awards? Stick to basketball, those are worthless awards (and so is the IBM, no one takes it seriously). Oh, and missed a few things have we? 3-time Finals MVP, 3-time champion, 3-time (not 2-time) All Defensive Team member including a first team in 03, 12-time (not 11-time) All Star, 6-time (not 4-time) All NBA first teamer.

Hey, you mentioned awards and stats....I just posted them. No opinions, no bias, no insults, just the numbers for all to mull over. I got those from NBA.com. Your issue is with them not me, although you feel the need to be an asshole about it. I was under the impression you were better than that.

[whottt]

              Detroit (96) @ San Antonio (115) 02/17/94


Detroit (96)

                POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA TGM-TGA ORB-TRB AS ST BL TO PF  TP
Elliott,Sean      F  44   9-21    2- 2    0- 1    0- 2   2  0  0  0  0  20
Mills,Terry       F  43   7-17    3- 5    1- 3    3-16   2  0  1  4  6  18
Anderson,Greg     C  22   3- 5    1- 2    0- 0    6- 8   0  2  0  0  3   7
Thomas,Isiah      G  14   2-10    1- 2    0- 0    1- 1   1  0  0  1  3   5
Houston,Allan     G  38   4-14    2- 2    0- 2    0- 1   2  0  0  2  1  10
Hunter,Lindsey       34  12-24    2- 3    0- 3    3- 7   2  2  0  2  4  26
Jones,Charles        29   1- 2    0- 0    0- 0    3-10   0  0  0  0  6   2
Macon,Mark           10   4- 4    0- 0    0- 0    1- 2   0  2  0  1  3   8
Liberty,Marcus        6   0- 0    0- 0    0- 0    0- 0   0  0  0  0  0   0
TOTALS              240  42-97   11-16    1- 9   17-47   9  6  1 10 26  96

     FG %: .433  FT %: .688  Three %: .111  Team Rebs: 7  Team TOs: 0


San Antonio (115)

                POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA TGM-TGA ORB-TRB AS ST BL TO PF  TP
Ellis,Dale        F  35   9-15    0- 0    1- 6    0- 2   1  1  0  1  1  19
Rodman,Dennis     F  42   0- 1    1- 2    0- 0    4-22   5  1  0  1  4   1
Robinson,David    C  43  12-20   10-17    0- 0    5-10  10  2 10  1  1  34
Del Negro,Vinny   G  28   9-17    5- 5    0- 1    1- 7   3  0  0  1  1  23
Anderson,Willie   G  23   2- 4    2- 2    0- 0    0- 1   2  0  2  0  3   6
Reid,J.R.            27   4- 8    5- 6    0- 0    4- 5   1  0  0  0  0  13
Knight,Negele        15   2- 5    0- 0    0- 0    0- 0   1  2  1  2  1   4
Floyd,Sleepy         20   4- 8    2- 2    0- 1    0- 0   6  0  0  1  2  10
Daniels,Lloyd         3   0- 1    0- 0    0- 1    0- 1   2  1  0  0  0   0
Haley,Jack            2   1- 2    0- 0    0- 0    0- 0   0  0  0  0  0   2
Whitney,Chris         2   1- 2    0- 0    1- 2    0- 0   0  0  0  0  0   3
TOTALS              240  44-83   25-34    2-11   14-48  31  7 13  7 13 115

     FG %: .530  FT %: .735  Three %: .182  Team Rebs: 6  Team TOs: 0

               Detroit                   20 27 21 28 --  96
               San Antonio               22 28 31 34 -- 115

Officials: Hue Hollins, Ronnie Nunn, Jim Kinsey
Attendance: 19451  Time of Game: 2:02

Speaking of quadruple doubles...does Snaq have one of those?

No he doesn't...like 99% of the rest of the players in NBA history...

How about this?

San Antonio (112) @ LA Clippers (97) 04/24/94


San Antonio (112)

                POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA TGM-TGA ORB-TRB AS ST BL TO PF  TP
 mings,Terry    F  22   2-10    1- 2    0- 0    6-12   2  0  0  1  0   5
Rodman,Dennis     F  36   4- 5    0- 0    0- 0    3-17   3  1  1  2  1   8
Robinson,David    C  44  26-41   18-25    1- 2    4-14   5  0  2  8  2  71
Del Negro,Vinny   G  26   1- 3    0- 0    0- 0    0- 2   6  4  0  2  2   2
Daniels,Lloyd     G  25   2- 7    0- 0    0- 2    0- 2   1  2  1  3  2   4
Knight,Negele        24   3- 6    0- 0    0- 0    0- 0   5  0  1  0  2   6
Floyd,Sleepy         23   1- 5    1- 4    1- 2    1- 5   6  0  0  4  3   4
Carr,Antoine         24   2- 2    0- 0    0- 0    0- 1   0  1  0  0  1   4
Reid,J.R.            12   2- 6    2- 2    0- 0    3- 4   0  0  0  1  2   6
Haley,Jack            4   1- 2    0- 0    0- 0    0- 1   0  0  0  0  2   2
TOTALS              240  44-87   22-33    2- 6   17-58  28  8  5 21 17 112

    FG %: .506  FT %: .667  Three %: .333  Team Rebs: 10  Team TOs: 0


LA Clippers (97)

                POS MIN FGM-FGA FTM-FTA TGM-TGA ORB-TRB AS ST BL TO PF  TP
Wilkins,Dominique F  21   6-17    3- 4    1- 3    0- 1   2  1  0  1  2  16
Vaught,Loy        F  25   7-10    2- 2    0- 0    2- 4   1  0  0  0  4  16
Spencer,Elmore    C   5   0- 0    0- 0    0- 0    0- 1   0  0  1  1  2   0
Jackson,Mark      G  16   1- 6    0- 0    0- 1    2- 3   6  2  0  0  0   2
Harper,Ron        G  20   2- 6    0- 0    0- 0    0- 3   0  1  1  4  0   4
Martin,Bob           20   1- 2    0- 0    0- 0    0- 4   1  0  2  1  4   2
Outlaw,Charles       27   2- 5    0- 0    0- 0    3- 6   0  1  3  1  6   4
Dehere,Terry         28  10-17    4- 4    2- 3    2- 3   2  1  0  2  0  26
Grant,Gary           14   2- 4    0- 0    0- 0    0- 1   4  2  0  2  0   4
Ellis,Harold         27   6-15    2- 4    0- 1    1- 6   0  2  0  0  5  14
Williams,John        19   1- 4    0- 0    0- 2    0- 4   2  2  0  2  2   2
Woods,Randy          18   1- 9    4- 6    1- 8    2- 3   5  2  0  2  3   7
TOTALS              240  39-95   15-20    4-18   12-39  23 14  7 16 28  97

     FG %: .411  FT %: .750  Three %: .222  Team Rebs: 8  Team TOs: 0

               San Antonio               20 17 32 43 -- 112
               LA Clippers               19 16 32 30 --  97

Officials: HOLLINS, MIDDLETON, FINE
Attendance: 16005  Time of Game: 2:09

That's called a 70 point game and only two Centers in NBA history have them...

Just like only two centers have ever lead the league in blocks rebounding and scoring....

Just like only two centers have ever lead a post season in blocks and rebounds....

Who the was dominant?

The .50% lead Shaq has in FG% is more than negated by the 2.0 deficit he has at the FT line.

Shaq was a slightly better scorer than DRob and that is it....

Drob was a better shooter, a better passer, he was more durable, he was more versatile...and most importantly...he wasn't an idiot and he didn't make ty movies.

And he ing owned Shaq, and Shaq knows it, and that's the reality right there....

You go listen to interviews and you see who mentions who more....I gurantee you Shaq talks about Drob a of alot more than Drob mentions Shaq.

[Kaster]

I think the fact that he was on the team and then wasn't is telling...Rodman was a pain in the Ass.

He was still a great player, no matter what.

Drob did the Shaq defending...not Duncan...and Drob was the only guy to score in double figures in every game of that post season run...Duncan had a game where he only scored 5 points...and we won.

So the what. What did Drob average in the 99 postseason? 15.4 ppg. What did Shaq average? 26.6. Case closed, he was no where near the first option Duncan was, and hardly owned Shaq, at all.

Don't ing tell me we win that le without Drob.

Who said otherwise, certainly not me. You don’t seem to understand the point, he wasn’t the first option and certainly didn’t lead those two le teams to victory.

Yeah...and the Piston's also traded him when he became a ing headcase...

LOL, headcase my ass. If he wanted to stay he would have, he didn’t want to. And of course, it’s sad that would use his off-court antics to take away from his abilities on the court. You think a lot like Drob did when pushed Rodman out with his religious beliefs. Even more ironic is the fact that Drob prevented himself from winning a le in 95-96 by letting the Spurs trade Rodman to the Bulls.

Did he win the scoring le that season?

Moot. Pay attention. He averaged 31.5/6.5/4.5/48.4% during the postseason. I don’t give a rat’s ass what he did in the regular season, no one does. No wonder you think Drob was better than Shaq, you’re enamored with regular season glory.

Why not? He put up the PPG averages to do it....dip ...17 ing games is 17 games...Kobe had a stretch last year where he averaged about 40 PPG for 17 games...does that me

Christ, what on earth are you babbling about. Jordan was his usual dominant self in the 94-95 playoffs, get over it kid. Just admit defeat if all you’re going to do is bring up regular season BS.

Idiot. I didn't realize just how much of an idiot you were until you just made that statement.

Apparently you were too dumb to understand the context of that sentence, of course Jordan-led Bulls teams have lost in the playoffs. Still, it’s pretty damn amazing how bad your reading comprehension is, especially since I talk about Jordan losing in the postseason later on in that very post. Figure it out.

=LMAO back to ask someone else....I don't need to ing ask someone else.

LMAO, you should ask someone else who knows basketball, because you certainly don’t.

..go see who had more MVP votes that season(that's another one of your school girl criteria, so do it)

Jordan played 17 games in the regular season son. Man, can you really be this dumb?

Shaq wasn't the reason we lost a series to you until last year...Kobe was the reason..You just weren't watching.

Shaq was always the primary eason, even when Kobe had the big series in 2001. Only an idiot would suggest otherwise. And since I’m talking to whottt, I suppose it’s fitting.

He was the primary option...for 1 game...in the 2001 playoffs after Duncan had a 9 point game...and he whupped up on Shaq and put his fat ass on the bench in foul trouble...that didn't stop Kobe and Fisher from destroying though...

For one game? Is that really the best you can muster, one game? Pathetic.

You are an idiot if you expected Drob to put up similar numbers to his youth when he was only getting half as many touches and getting the ball with about 7 seconds left on the clock..

You’re the idiot that suggested otherwise. Read your own garbage son.

Only because he had to face the team that beat Shaq before the finals...idiot.

He had no control over who he played, not his fault. And he still beat a Jordan-led Bulls team, Drob never did. Get…over…it.

So in otherwords...he's not the only one to do it...so STFU.

You should have figured it out the first time. Damn your reading comp sucks.

That wouldn't be the same Jackson who won Shaq won his les with right? He doesn't count according to you...why bring it up? It's all Shaq.

What? And no, you’re the one that didn’t want to count the Lakers les. And yet, Drob still doesn’t stack up.

What?

It’s not hard to explain, Drob didn’t want him on the team, so he was gone.

It's very refutable...unless your idea of success is this:

Sweep
Sweep
Sweep
Sweep
Sweep

Nope, not total success, but certainly more than David Robinson, making Shaq a better player (among numerous other things I have mentioned before). That point keeps flying over your head.

bet you feel like a stud when you beat your grandpa in armwrestling don't you?

, put 28 year old Shaq on 28 year old Drob. Still complete destruction.

Who the cares...age doesn't rmatter emember?

Actually no, that was my argument against you not wanting to use Drob’s post-injury numbers. Yet for some reason you keep bringing them up, so I decided to use age too. Jesus you’re a dumb SOB, your reading comp is sorry.

Anyone who saw them play knows Drob was better...including Shaq...why you think he hates?

Take a poll on any board, anywhere (excluding biased boards like Spur or Lakers or Magic boards). You’ll get laughed off and some. It’s fact. Don’t believe me? Do it yourself kid, and come back to me with the results. Just straight up ask, who was better, Shaq or Drob. You’ll get owned.

[Kaster]

Shaq was a slightly better scorer than DRob and that is it....

This pretty much sums up your idiocy. To believe this, well....you're just not that smart if you really do believe it. But hey, you can't prove otherwise (while I can) that Shaq was better, and you can't even take a poll of fans that actually know about basketball. , Drob doesn't even own Shaq in the very box scores you list. That's just beyond sad. And that's all before Shaq turned 24.

Man, just sad sad sad.

[whottt]

He was still a great player, no matter what.



So the what. What did Drob average in the 99 postseason? 15.4 ppg. What did Shaq average? 26.6. Case closed, he was no where near the first option Duncan was, and hardly owned Shaq, at all.

He was the first option on defense...and we won that le because of our defense. Fantasy League boy.

Who said otherwise, certainly not me. You don’t seem to understand the point, he wasn’t the first option and certainly didn’t lead those two le teams to victory.

That was a philosophical decision...and since that was the only twin tower combo to ever win a le...it was probably the correct one...One anchors the O, one anchors the D...

If you don't think Drob could have scored on the freaking Knicks you are on crack.

LOL, headcase my ass. If he wanted to stay he would have, he didn’t want to. And of course, it’s sad that would use his off-court antics to take away from his abilities on the court.

You gotta be ing kidding me? Do you have any idea the kind of Rodman pulled on this team?

You think a lot like Drob did when pushed Rodman out with his religious beliefs. Even more ironic is the fact that Drob prevented himself from winning a le in 95-96 by letting the Spurs trade Rodman to the Bulls.

Um Rodman couldn't get us past the Jazz...

But that's okay becasue ing Shaq couldn't get past the jazz either...even with a freaking All Star Team backing him up...until they got old.

What's sickening is you actually admire Rodman more than Robinson...you a ed up individual...doesn't surprise me you are a Lakerfan...

I bet Kobe's rape accusations earned your respect too...

I am sure Rodman will be glad to give you herpes..give him a call.

No wonder you think Drob was better than Shaq, you’re enamored with regular season glory.

Ok...let's talk post season...what about that year Shaq had a 500 record and failed to make it? Ooops.

LMAO, you should ask someone else who knows basketball, because you certainly don’t.

Ok expert on MVP award voting...

For one game? Is that really the best you can muster, one game? Pathetic.

It's the only game Drob got the ball as the primary option...unfortunately Drob getting the ball wasn't a form of defense on Kobe.

He had no control over who he played, not his fault. And he still beat a Jordan-led Bulls team, Drob never did. Get…over…it.

Neither did Hakeem...

This is really a stupid line of thinking...

I could just as easily say Shaq never beat a Drexler lead Blazers Team...

What does that prove? Other than they played in opposite conferences...

Here's the deal idiot...

Rockets VS Magic 4-0
Rockets VS Spurs 4-2

What? And no, you’re the one that didn’t want to count the Lakers les. And yet, Drob still doesn’t stack up.

Teams win les...not individuals...ask the Pistons....

It’s not hard to explain, Drob didn’t want him on the team, so he was gone.

Yeah he was and the entire city of SA was happy to see him go...and it had nothing to do with religion...it had to do with the fact that he was a major freaking disruptive presence...had he shown up and rebounded it would have been one thing...but he didn't...

Nope, not total success, but certainly more than David Robinson, making Shaq a better player (among numerous other things I have mentioned before). That point keeps flying over your head.

, put 28 year old Shaq on 28 year old Drob. Still complete destruction.

Laughing my ing ass off....28 year old Shaq on 38 year old Drob wouldn't have been complete destruction.

Take a poll on any board, anywhere (excluding biased boards like Spur or Lakers or Magic boards). You’ll get laughed off and some. It’s fact. Don’t believe me? Do it yourself kid, and come back to me with the results. Just straight up ask, who was better, Shaq or Drob. You’ll get owned.

You are a weakminded individual...and you repeatedly show it when you resort to any other forum, these people would say blah blah...

I think you belong gossiping with old women and knitting instead of trying to win an objective sports debate...

Just because it's not a popularly believed truth doesn't make it any less true.

[samikeyp]

To believe this, well....you're just not that smart if you really do believe it.

So...if people don't believe the same as you...they're idiots?

[whottt]

This pretty much sums up your idiocy. To believe this, well....you're just not that smart if you really do believe it.

The evidence is all there....I am still waiting for yours....

"People will say" isn't evidence...an neither is having Kobe Bryant instead of Vinny Del Negro.

But hey, you can't prove otherwise (while I can) that Shaq was better,

You are tight I can't prove Shaq was better...

#1. He wasn't.
#2.Why would I want to? Clown.

, Drob doesn't even own Shaq in the very box scores you list. That's just beyond sad. And that's all before Shaq turned 24.

If you look some of Shaq's best stats came from those years...he was still Shaq...and if Drob being 38 doesn't matter then Shaq being 20 doesn't matter.

The bottom line is that Drob beat Shaq more than Shaq beat him...plaoffs regular season...even when Drob was old and past SuperStar Status...while Shaq had a bonafide AS alongside him.

Man, just sad sad sad.

I've seen you a million times before my friend...and you are always wrong.

[smeagol]

How can you defend that lame fatass with such passion?

It's sickening . . .

[Kaster]

He was the first option on defense...and we won that le because of our defense. Fantasy League boy.

First option on defense? Get that out of here. He was never the first option on offense, and was never the leader of those two championship Spurs teams. Duncan was, get over it.

That was a philosophical decision...and since that was the only twin tower combo to ever win a le...it was probably the correct one...One anchors the O, one anchors the D...

Overall, Tim Duncan was the leader of those two le teams, offensively and defensively, especially the 03 le squad. To deny this is ridiculous. Then again, you've been nothing but ridiculous with your arguments here.

If you don't think Drob could have scored on the freaking Knicks you are on crack.

Right right, he chose to score fewer points. I'm sure he did the same in 2003 too. Surrrre.

You gotta be ing kidding me? Do you have any idea the kind of Rodman pulled on this team?

Who cares what he pulled there off the court, he's arguably the greatest rebounding/defending PF of the 90's. It shouldn't matter if he was a ing Nazi, the dude brought it to the court night in and night out, and instead of keeping him the Spurs dumped him onto the Bulls and prevented their own franchise player from winning a championship in 95-96.

Um Rodman couldn't get us past the Jazz...

Right, so you dumped him for....Will freaking Purdue. Nice upgrade, I'm sure he was more vital to the Spurs' success against the Jazz.

But that's okay becasue ing Shaq couldn't get past the jazz either...even with a freaking All Star Team backing him up...until they got old.

"Until they got old". Shaq wasn't even 24 years old when he led his team to the Finals and beat the Jordan-led Bulls in 95. Drob was smack in the middle of his prime with Dennis Rodman and very solid role players like Elliott and Avery and he still couldn't accomplish jack . If he wasn't so intent on getting his points outside of the paint maybe he would have been able to dominate offensively the way Shaq has been able to do his entire career and the way Malone was able to do when he was beating the Spurs.

What's sickening is you actually admire Rodman more than Robinson...you a ed up individual...doesn't surprise me you are a Lakerfan...

LMAO. Point out where I said that son. You won't be able to, cause it never happened. And no, I don't give a what these players do off the court (for the most part), I care about skill and les. Shaq had IT, and won les.

I am sure Rodman will be glad to give you herpes..give him a call.

I really have no interest in your sex life.

Ok...let's talk post season...what about that year Shaq had a 500 record and failed to make it? Ooops.

As a 20 year old rookie with Nick Anderson and Dennis Scott as his best players? Yeah, what a failure. , look at that scrub Kareem Abdul Jabbar, fool missed the playoffs with the Bucks in his prime. What a dolt.

Look at les, leadership, dominance, etc. Shaq > Drob. Dream > Drob. Jabbar > Drob.

It's the only game Drob got the ball as the primary option...unfortunately Drob getting the ball wasn't a form of defense on Kobe.

You're delusional. If Drob was a still able to score close to the level he was able to before the back injury, the Spurs would have gone to him just as much as they did with Duncan. They didn't, because he wasn't able to do it anymore physically, and they needed him for his defense more than his offense anyway. He succeeded for a single game. Congrats, you proved my point; Shaq dominated night in and night out throughout his entire career, Drob did not, he suffered a back injury, and wasn't the same afterwards. Maybe if he never suffered that injury he would have become greater than Shaq. As is, no.

Neither did Hakeem...

Yeah, Hakeem won two les instead. Read the other part kid, I listed it right there in front of you; Drob never beat a Jordan-led Bulls team AND never lead his team to a championship. And of course, Dream did it with garbage teammates and a poor X's and O's coach in Rudy T in 94. Extremely impressive.

This is really a stupid line of thinking...

I could just as easily say Shaq never beat a Drexler lead Blazers Team...

Are you stupid and high? What the did a Drexler-led Blazers team ever accomplish? Take a wild guess as to why I'm referencing the Jordan-led Chicago Bulls in the 90's. I'll give you a hint; they won stuff.

What does that prove? Other than they played in opposite conferences...

It proves Shaq beat very good compe ion with a similar supporting cast to Drob. This is pretty simple logic.

Here's the deal idiot...

Rockets VS Magic 4-0
Rockets VS Spurs 4-2

Wow, you seriously don't get it. Oh well, no point in explaining it further if you still reference that garbage.

Teams win les...not individuals...ask the Pistons....

Good point. But Shaq's still better. The world agrees. Take a look at a local poll done yesterday: http://web.basketballboards.net/foru...d.php?t=155878

You're through.

Yeah he was and the entire city of SA was happy to see him go...

Makes sense I suppose, some Spurs fans don't know talent from a hole in the ground.

and it had nothing to do with religion...it had to do with the fact that he was a major freaking disruptive presence...had he shown up and rebounded it would have been one thing...but he didn't...

Yeah, that fool was a disruptive influence on the Pistons and Bulls too, in route to 5 les.

Boy, you're really getting pounded.

Laughing my ing ass off....28 year old Shaq on 38 year old Drob wouldn't have been complete destruction.

Uh, it already was complete destruction. Where the were you between 1999 and 2003.

You are a weakminded individual...and you repeatedly show it when you resort to any other forum, these people would say blah blah...

How so? Do you know those posters, or the reasoning behind their opinions? Do you truly believe you're right when everyone else gives good reasons as to why you're wrong, and the best argument you can use to dismiss their points is....Shaq was in a bigger market!!!!! No wonder you think you're right, you can't think period.

I think you belong gossiping with old women and knitting instead of trying to win an objective sports debate...

That was pretty bad, stick to your asinine NBA reasoning and forget the slapstick comedy act.

Just because it's not a popularly believed truth doesn't make it any less true.

There's nothing "popular" about it. It's as close to fact as you're going to get without it being a matematical ing formula.

Here's the link again, with perfectly good reasons (from Spurs fans too) about why Shaq > Drob. It's not hard to understand. http://web.basketballboards.net/foru...d.php?t=155878

The evidence is all there....I am still waiting for yours....

The bottom line is that Drob beat Shaq more than Shaq beat him...plaoffs regular season...even when Drob was old and past SuperStar Status...while Shaq had a bonafide AS alongside him.

There is no bottom line, because Drob still wasn’t anywhere near the leader or first option of those 99-03 Spurs teams, Tim Duncan was. Shaq was most certainly the leader of the 99-03 Laker teams, with arguably Kobe sharing it in 02 and 03. Drob didn’t come anywhere close to Duncan, most notably after 99. Your insistence that he did is completely debunked by his statistical production during those years, And of course, even between 92 and 96, Drob still couldn't dominate Shaq (even statistically), a young Shaq (20-24 year old Shaq) at that, with Drob right in the middle of his prime those years.

You’re sad, and you’ve been beaten. Dump the “big market” garbage in the trash.

[whottt]

You are an idiot...

You entire ing arugment is based on

1.What people think.
2.Awards that are voted on by people with a bias.
3.A Finals appearance in which Shaq's team got it's ass kicked worse than Drob's team.
4. les won by teams.
5.Misguided definitions of leadership.

Flaw in point number 1:
What people think is irrelevant...I am aware of what people think you idiot...that's the big reason why I say Shaq's reputation is media created...


Flaw in point number 2:
Goes hand in hand with flaw number 1...The finals MVP point is moot since without a good team and guys like Horry hitting buzzer beaters Shaq wouldn't have been in the finals to win those MVP's.

Flaw in point number 3:
Shaq lost to the same team the Spurs lost too...and he did it worse...had he played the Rockets in the first round he would have lost in the first round....you idiot.

And losing in the finals isn't considered winning anyway...ask the Bills.


Flaw in point number 4:
Robert Horry has more rings than Shaq...including one at Shaq's expense...I guess that means he's better than Shaq since Shaq hasn't won a ring without him and Horry played a role in every le he won.

Flaw in point number 5:
Tim Duncan wasn't the leader of the 99 le team and he would be the first to tell you that. There are many forms of leadership and subjugating your ego for the good of the team is certainly a form of leadership...even if it means idiots like you are going to not recognize the contribution because a guy couldn't score 20ppg taking 5 shots per game in stead of 15.


off...you haven't done except spout opinion...

I showed you the W-L...I showed you the dominating performances...I showed you what Drob did that Shaq didn't...I showed you the statistical superiority.

The only way you can put Shaq on Drob's level is by ignoring the contributions of teamates and spouting off about finals sweeps...Mano a Mano Drob owned his fat ass. And he's the guy that did stuff that Shaq hasn't even come close to doing.

[TDfan2007]

MY GOD!!!!!!!

WHOTT & KASTOR HAVE NO LIVES

SHEESH, GIVE IT A BREAK!!!!!

Shaq was better because he had a killer instinct. He led his team to 3 straight les.

DRob was a great player (and a much better person), but Shaq was a better player.

[whottt]

How come Shaq hasn't lead his team to a le every year? I mean all Shaq has to do is lead...teamates have nothing to do with it right?

It's such a weak argument...it's like saying I am the fastest man in the world because I drive a lamborghini....

[TheWriter]

Whott and Kaster indeed have no real social lives.

[samikeyp]

Right right, he chose to score fewer points. I'm sure he did the same in 2003 too. Surrrre.

Actually...he did. He and Popovich recognized that the team would be more successful with Duncan as the first option. He agreed to a different role on the team...one focused more on defense and rebounding than scoring.

[Kaster]

Flaw in point number 1:
What people think is irrelevant...

No, it isn't. That's called idiot logic. No one knows everything, that's why you listen to fans, players, coaches, etc. to learn more about the game and expand your knowledge. Pertending that your opinion is right while ignoring what other sane, logical people think is just plain idiocy period.

I am aware of what people think you idiot...that's the big reason why I say Shaq's reputation is media created...

No, what you're doing is assuming fans (specifically the ones in the thread I linked) developed their opinion of Shaq or Drob based on what the media had to say. You'd be dead wrong too, that's not the case with the majority of fans, especially fans that follow Shaq and Drob closely.

Flaw in point number 2:
Goes hand in hand with flaw number 1...The finals MVP point is moot since without a good team and guys like Horry hitting buzzer beaters Shaq wouldn't have been in the finals to win those MVP's.

True, team accomplishments don't usually translate into individual ability, but the problem you have grasping is that Drob had a very similarly talented supporting cast in 94 and 95 to Shaq's teammates, and yet he did worse than Shaq. That by itself doesn't prove my point entirely, but Shaq's six additional years of MVP-level play over Drob (fact) and his ability to dominate a game like no other are just some of the other supporting evidence I've given you, and you've ignored because Drob played in SA and that's a small market....yet your point can't be proven because the media had an equal opportunity to watch Shaq or Drob during their careers.

Flaw in point number 3:
Shaq lost to the same team the Spurs lost too...and he did it worse...had he played the Rockets in the first round he would have lost in the first round....you idiot.

He also beat the Bulls, you complete moron and sorry excuse for an NBA fan. Get it through that thick skull of yours.

And losing in the finals isn't considered winning anyway...ask the Bills.

I never argued otherwise, but getting to the Finals is certainly considering "winning" more than David Robinson ever did before Duncan. That's fact son, get over it.

Flaw in point number 4:
Robert Horry has more rings than Shaq...

You're not very intelligent. Horry was no where near the first option, leader, and certainly had no where near the same production as either Shaq or Drob. Nice try though kid. Next.

including one at Shaq's expense...I guess that means he's better than Shaq since Shaq hasn't won a ring without him and Horry played a role in every le he won.

Boy you're dumb.

Flaw in point number 5:
Tim Duncan wasn't the leader of the 99 le team and he would be the first to tell you that.

He'd tell you that because he's such a modest and good guy. Anyone with two eyes and the ability to read statistics will tell you he was the leader, 1st option, and best player on his team in 1999. Look it up son, Duncan significantly outscores at a more efficient rate, outrebounds him, outassists him, and even out blocks him when his main job was to D up and block shots in 99 Just do the resarch: http://www.basketballreference.com/p...lkid=DUNCATI01

There are many forms of leadership and subjugating your ego for the good of the team is certainly a form of leadership...even if it means idiots like you are going to not recognize the contribution because a guy couldn't score 20ppg taking 5 shots per game in stead of 15.

It's sad that you would argue this point, just sad. The purpose of basketball is to outscore your opponents, and the Spurs were hardly an offensive juggernaut in 1999. If they could have gotten more points out of Drob they would have asked him to do so. Denying that fact is beyond logic, but I'm not surprised by anything you say anymore.

off...you haven't done except spout opinion...

Backed up by stats, playoff accomplishments, awards, and general consensus. I have far FAR more support for Shaq > Drob on my side than you do on your side. That, again, is fact. Deal with it.

I showed you the W-L...

Wait there son, I thought les and team accomplishments didn't mean anything?

I showed you the dominating performances...

Anyone can isolate a few dominating performances (like that worthless gift of a 70 point game). Even Tony Delk once scored 50+ in a game.

I showed you what Drob did that Shaq didn't...

Score 70 points in one game? Oh wait, you're right, he did win DPOY once, you've got me there.

I showed you the statistical superiority.

No, you didn't. You failed on that point, again.

The only way you can put Shaq on Drob's level is by ignoring the contributions of teamates and spouting off about finals sweeps...Mano a Mano Drob owned his fat ass. And he's the guy that did stuff that Shaq hasn't even come close to doing.

You're in denial.