The right has lost it.

[ChumpDumper]

How was President Bush pressing for socialized medicine? I missed that. Please enlighten me.

You never heard of Medicare Part D?

[Cane]

Agreed with the OP and its really no more apparent than this forum. There's a handful or so of bat crazy 'Republicans' that make up about 70% of the posts/topics on this forum and nearly all of the topics they start are nothing more than dumbass partisan bull . Its really made this place pretty pathetic in terms of actual discussion however that handful of bat crazy Re icans aren't looking for actual discussion in the first place --- just look at the thread les to see what I mean.

I'm not a Democrat but man the Republican party's actions really have put them in a hole I don't think they can ever dig out of: Bush Dynasty, Iraq Wars, Palin, etc. Has there ever been a president more hated and despised than Bush Jr? If the amount of TV shows, movies, plays, etc are any indication - no.

[ChumpDumper]

Funny thing about Part D too -- the estimated cost over ten years went from $700 billion initially, up to $1.2 trillion a few months later and back down to about $400 million now. So the numbers aren't hard and fast.

[balli]

I am only against permanent social programs for people who are able to care for themselves.

I don't want it to be easy for them. I want them to have motivation to get off their asses and be productive citizens.

Yes, I know when I get cancer, I plan on cutting it out of my body myself. And then I'm going to drink an irradiated brew of my own making. I'm going to get off my ass for some good ol' productive self-reliance. That'll show em.

[sabar]

Agreed with the OP and its really no more apparent than this forum. There's a handful or so of bat crazy 'Republicans' that make up about 70% of the posts/topics on this forum and nearly all of the topics they start are nothing more than dumbass partisan bull . Its really made this place pretty pathetic in terms of actual discussion however that handful of bat crazy Re icans aren't looking for actual discussion in the first place --- just look at the thread les to see what I mean.

I'm not a Democrat but man the Republican party's actions really have put them in a hole I don't think they can ever dig out of: Bush Dynasty, Iraq Wars, Palin, etc. Has there ever been a president more hated and despised than Bush Jr? If the amount of TV shows, movies, plays, etc are any indication - no.

Insanity does not occur along party lines like members of each party would like to believe in their la-la land. Both libs and neo-cons have done the same thing here since I joined Spurstalk, and that is to parrot the party line and never budge an inch on any issue, while demonizing the opposing party. They both use fear-mongering and dance around every legitimate question posed to them.

And yes, there have been many presidents more despised than Bush. Just look at how many have been assassinated or attempted to be assassinated.

Just because modern technology (aka the internet) brings everyday Joe's hatred of in bent X to the forefront does not mean that the hatred is any more than was before that technology. Even many of the presidents that rank high on scholarly lists were disliked by many people (FDR, Truman, etc).

Also, Iraq and Palin are hardly the worst things that have occurred during a president's time. Vietnam killed 60,000 of our soldiers and wounded some 300,000 in fighting that is much more brutal than that occurring in Iraq. Who knows how many people starved to death during the Great Depression, with unemployment above 25%.

The right and left are both quick to announce the end of the world if the opposing party is elected, but we head down the same road of expansion of government power regardless of who we put in charge.

Yes, I know when I get cancer, I plan on cutting it out of my body myself. And then I'm going to drink an irradiated brew of my own making. I'm going to get off my ass for some good ol' productive self-reliance. That'll show em.

Cancer is too expensive to treat regardless of most social status / health system / self-reliance. In a private system you go in debt that you hand to your family when you die anyways and in a public system the surgery never happens.

If you get cancer you'll probably do what most people do and take pain meds until you die, unless by some act of divine intervention you catch it early.

If society wasn't so obsessed with stopping death at every turn we could divert our economic output into more useful things than extending the life of the useless elderly.

Every health system is broken if our goal is immortality. Medicine is why almost half of the human population is born with defective lenses in their eyes and has a high chance of inheriting genes that predisposition them to heart disease or cancer. One day this will become unsustainable when we realize that there is no cure to heart disease or cancer.

[Creepn]

If society wasn't so obsessed with stopping death at every turn we could divert our economic output into more useful things than extending the life of the useless elderly.

WOW just wow.

You are a very bad person.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

You never heard of Medicare Part D?

yeah that was a load of crap. and there was opposition. i mean if the left gets razzed over joe the plumber this was definitely opposed.

[ElNono]

Funny thing about Part D too -- the estimated cost over ten years went from $700 billion initially, up to $1.2 trillion a few months later and back down to about $400 million now. So the numbers aren't hard and fast.

Not only that. It was passed without explaining where the money was going to come from to pay for it. Basically part of the reason we're looking at the bankruptcy of that system right now.

[101A]

I never said you disliked him because he was black. Yet no one seems to be able to address why the people who are protesting now did not during the Bush years when he was pushing socialized medicine through congress.

I ask again, why now?

Because that extended drug coverage to Medicare recipients that did not have it.

This does much more than that.

Apples and Oranges.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

I never said you disliked him because he was black. Yet no one seems to be able to address why the people who are protesting now did not during the Bush years when he was pushing socialized medicine through congress.

I ask again, why now?

ok so, take a woman.
she gets raped and doesn't report it
say she were to get raped again and wants to report it.
you'd question her why she's reporting this guy and talk down to her for doing that?

the whole argument of "why now" is pretty stupid.

[LnGrrrR]

ok so, take a woman.
she gets raped and doesn't report it
say she were to get raped again and wants to report it.
you'd question her why she's reporting this guy and talk down to her for doing that?

the whole argument of "why now" is pretty stupid.

Or better yet, take a judge. Once, she settled on a case with decision A. But this time, she decides to rule the completely opposite way. Nothing wrong with that, right?

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Or better yet, take a judge. Once, she settled on a case with decision A. But this time, she decides to rule the completely opposite way. Nothing wrong with that, right?

well judges should rule by the law so they really shouldn't be ruling otherwise for the same case.

[balli]

So credibility and personal integrity only matter when dealing with cold, hard legal issues? Great to know!

[LnGrrrR]

well judges should rule by the law so they really shouldn't be ruling otherwise for the same case.

I'm glad you stated such, because the 'rape' situation was just as false a situation.

In MOST cases, it is best to have consistency when determining a moral/legal/ethical position. If person X does it, and it's bad, it's also bad when person Y does it.

[ElNono]

I'm glad you stated such, because the 'rape' situation was just as false a situation.

In MOST cases, it is best to have consistency when determining a moral/legal/ethical position. If person X does it, and it's bad, it's also bad when person Y does it.

Except for 'enhanced interrogation techniques' that is.

[Wild Cobra]

Why has the right lost it? The claims keep turning out to be true. Our current insurance will die as we know it to the point that in a few short years, private insurance providers will go out of business, except maybe a few very expensive policies only the rich can afford.

Page 16 of HB3200:

1 SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT
2 COVERAGE.
3 (a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COV
4 ERAGE DEFINED.—Subject to the succeeding provisions of
5 this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable cov
6 erage under this division, the term ‘‘grandfathered health
7 insurance coverage’’ means individual health insurance
8 coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the
9 first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
10 (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.—
11 (A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in
12 this paragraph, the individual health insurance
13 issuer offering such coverage does not enroll
14 any individual in such coverage if the first ef
15 fective date of coverage is on or after the first
16 day of Y1.
17 (B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PER
18 MITTED.—Subparagraph (A) shall not affect
19 the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an
20 individual who is covered as of such first day.
21 (2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR
22 CONDITIONS.—Subject to paragraph (3) and except
23 as required by law, the issuer does not change any
24 of its terms or conditions, including benefits and
25 cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day be
26 fore the first day of Y1.

What will happen is that once a person changes jobs, they can never get such a health care package again. They will have to get a government approved plan which may or may not be covered by employers, and because of the mandates, will cost far more. As employees migrate, and fewer employees in a company are covered by the grandfathered policy, eventually either the employer of insurer will stop offering it.

[bresilhac]

Why has the right lost it? The claims keep turning out to be true. Our current insurance will die as we know it to the point that in a few short years, private insurance providers will go out of business, except maybe a few very expensive policies only the rich can afford.

Page 16 of HB3200:

1 SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT
2 COVERAGE.
3 (a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COV
4 ERAGE DEFINED.—Subject to the succeeding provisions of
5 this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable cov
6 erage under this division, the term ‘‘grandfathered health
7 insurance coverage’’ means individual health insurance
8 coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the
9 first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:
10 (1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT.—
11 (A) IN GENERAL.—Except as provided in
12 this paragraph, the individual health insurance
13 issuer offering such coverage does not enroll
14 any individual in such coverage if the first ef
15 fective date of coverage is on or after the first
16 day of Y1.
17 (B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PER
18 MITTED.—Subparagraph (A) shall not affect
19 the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an
20 individual who is covered as of such first day.
21 (2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR
22 CONDITIONS.—Subject to paragraph (3) and except
23 as required by law, the issuer does not change any
24 of its terms or conditions, including benefits and
25 cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day be
26 fore the first day of Y1.

What will happen is that once a person changes jobs, they can never get such a health care package again. They will have to get a government approved plan which may or may not be covered by employers, and because of the mandates, will cost far more. As employees migrate, and fewer employees in a company are covered by the grandfathered policy, eventually either the employer of insurer will stop offering it.

Aw. The insurance companies will go out of business eventually. Doesn't that just break your goddamned heart. Poor things.

[doobs]

Aw. The insurance companies will go out of business eventually. Doesn't that just break your goddamned heart. Poor things.

Thank God for the government, right? They solve EVERYTHING.

[LnGrrrR]

WC,

You're right about the 'government-approved', but all it means is different regulation, for the most part. It will slightly increase costs on large businesses, but I believe small companies will get credits/rebates to offset the cost.

Government-approved/regulated is not the same as government-run, after all.

[Wild Cobra]

WC,

You're right about the 'government-approved', but all it means is different regulation, for the most part. It will slightly increase costs on large businesses, but I believe small companies will get credits/rebates to offset the cost.

Government-approved/regulated is not the same as government-run, after all.

I posted some time back what some of those written things are in the legislation already. They will mandate that private insurance insure just about every thing, yet the government will not have to. These government approved insurance company plans will be force them out of business. They would have to charge outrageous premiums to stay in business. Only a few will survive that can insure the rich that want a better plan than the public plan will be.

[exstatic]

I believed education has a bit to do with conservative or liberal also. Those who are more educated are generally those who seek the truth out. I believe a man or woman who does seek the truth will be a conservative, unless they are someone who benefits from socialism.

Liberals have the highest education level of any typology group . 49% are college graduates and 26% have some postgraduate education.

paper on red vs blue

[Wild Cobra]

paper on red vs blue

I should have said intelligence rather than educated. Sorry for throwing you off. It was my poor choice of words.

Today's university's, they have become "Universities of Indoctrinations." If you listen to talk radio, you hear several stories a year by student callers of what their schools impose on them.

[Wild Cobra]

Trailer for Indoctrinate-U:

[baseline bum]

I should have said intelligence rather than educated. Sorry for throwing you off. It was my poor choice of words.

Today's university's, they have become "Universities of Indoctrinations." If you listen to talk radio, you hear several stories a year by student callers of what their schools impose on them.

I can't ing believe you about the biased newsmedia and then expect us to give a about your right-wing AM radio editorial shows posing as news.

[Wild Cobra]

I can't ing believe you about the biased newsmedia and then expect us to give a about your right-wing AM radio editorial shows posing as news.

It's the other side of the issues. If you choose to remain ignorant and only listen to one side, well.... Here in America, you have the right to remain ignorant and stupid.