Jefferson sucks

[Xevious]

I've said this a couple of times in different threads, but I'm starting to question my memory. Who was the last new player we've had that immediately fit into the Spurs system? I know that doesn't give RJ a pass, but we are talking about the 16th game right?

RMJ last year saved us when we were decimated with injuries.

But regarding Jefferson, he has to grow and pair and step up. He's played his best ball so far when Tim and Tony were benched with injuries. They have to find a way to play together. Bogans isn't going to score, that's not why he's out there. Any points he puts up is gravy. And I don't expect much more than 10 a night from Dice. So unless RJ finds way to score 15 or so consistently, our second unit is going to keep playing catchup when they enter the game. No point in having the deepest bench when you have a weak starting five.

[DaBears]

Its seems to be that the only thing Jefferson has been trying to do is drive, which he forces all the time resulting in many many misses none more appearent than last nite.. Cannot throw it in the ocean.. He reminds me of Michael Finley a bit when he first got here, but not even fin looked that bad...... He just o me looking at him looks out of place his style of game doesnt appear as of right now to mix well with spurs.. And he cannot depend on his jump shot cause he never has been a really good shooter % wise.... Im not hanging him out to dry yet........ Guy i would think alot of this has to fall on the coachs lap as well its his job to put players in position to suceed, and i dont think he knows what he is doing....

Last thing.. I also seem to notice that when TP enters the game after spurs make a comeback with the bench Parker coems in and all of a sudden ball movement stops and the other team catches right back up... TP either needs to change his game and learn how to play some "DAM DEFENSE' IF YOUR GETTING BET DOWN LOW BY RONDO YOU GOT SOME ISSUES.... PARKER SUCKS AT DEFENSE... I BET IF YOU STARTED DEDUCTING MONEY FROM THEIR OVER PAIED ASSES YOU WOULD SEE BETTER DEFENSE AND MORE COMPETIVE TEAM ON THE FLOOR...

[sananspursfan21]

What dumbass thought he was worth 14mil?

the bucks

[rascal]

RJ is caught in an offensive scheme that...well... isn't really a scheme considering the level of compe ion being played against. Which...if the Spurs aren't hitting it's 3 point attempts makes it easy for even a not so defensive oriented team to defend against.

These are the 2 options the Spurs run.
1.) Guards penetrate and either attempt to score or pass out to the wing for a 3 pt. attempt.
2.) Pass into low post for shot attempt or pass out to wing for 3pt. attempt.

I don't see anything in between tried more often than those two options. Both of which does not bode well for the type of offensive player RJ is best suited to play.

He'll continue to struggle if other offensive options are not implemented that play to his strengths or if he cannnot improve in the areas of his offensive game that he struggles from the most. The latter being what we are seeing now.

For the price tag of his salary...I can understand the disappointment at not being able to do the latter with more consistancy and effectiveness. But is that his fault?

The spurs need to run more and get more easy points off transistion offense instead of always looking to set up plays. This is what gets Jefferson going and plays to his strenghts. He is a great wing finisher and taking advantage of the opportunities to run when they present themselves and get easy baskets is something the spurs need to do more often.

[temujin]

Firstable, Boston is playng good basketball, and I did not unticipate a win by the Spurs at this stage.

Second, the loss came after 5 Ws. The Denver game is way more important, and winnable.

Third, there are many positive signs, mostly Blair and Manu.

So the outlook is not entirely negative.

Having said that, Jefferson looks like a real looser.
He has played for an irrelevent, loosing team for so long, he can't figure out what it's like to go out and win no matter what, night in, night out.

The ridiculous thing is that the press cited the experience of Jefferson with Popovich in Team USA 2004 as evidence of how much Popovich appreciates Jefferson.

Now Team USA 2004 epitomized what a team should NOT be doing, and it is by far the lowest point in Popovich' -and Duncan'- careers.

Jefferson will get his 15 ppg, mostly from the Knicks and Raptors and Clippers games, and then he will vanish in the playoffs.

This guy has no balls.

[urunobili]

lol RJ on Melo next game

[mando6599]

He had the ball in his hands as a Buck..

Obviously he's been disappointing, but I don't know why people are blaming him..what exactly is he supposed to do when he doesn't have an opportunity to get in a rhythm, even when he's being guarded by guys like Kapono and Ray Allen?..

This.

If Pop would take a chance and bench RJ and start Manu, then RJ could get more minutes against the other team's 2nd unit, thus allowing more touches b/c he'd be the first offensive option.

On the defensive side, he's got to fight through those picks harder and just bring the intensity EVERY night. Pop has always stressed that you get more minutes if you bring it on the defensive side. Then why is RJ out there so many minutes and not producing? Not sure, really.

mando

[NFGIII]

I tend to agree with HarlemHeat37 about RJ so far this season. He needs to get some plays run for him to get invovled. He is an open court/fast break type of player and in the half court seems a little lost. Maybe replacing him with Manu or Mason and bringing him in with the 2nd unit might be what he needs. But one thing is for sure is that he had better bring more intensity when playing D. If anything that is the most disappointing aspect of RJ that I've seen so far.

[peskypesky]

Jefferson totally does not suck. He's just not fitting into the Spurs' system. It happens. And I hate to oversimplify the reasons, but to me the fact that Parker is not a great passer is a problem. With a Kidd, Nash or CP3 feeding him, RJ would not be struggling.

Since we're not going to trade parker, i think we need to think about trading Jefferson.

[Pauleta14]

Jefferson totally does not suck. He's just not fitting into the Spurs' system. It happens. And I hate to oversimplify the reasons, but to me the fact that Parker is not a great passer is a problem. With a Kidd, Nash or CP3 feeding him, RJ would not be struggling.

Since we're not going to trade parker, i think we need to think about trading Jefferson.

I do agree on that point, so let say Jeffesson sucks...... in the spurs system!!!

Concerning Parker, it's getting old man...
I mean, why something that had worked for 8 years with a PG would suddenly fail?
Parker is one of our least pb this year, we all agree on the fact that he is DEFINITELY not at his expected level, but he is not the reason we fail!!!
It's a matter of chemistry and every player knowing what they have to do and what to expect from each other...
Right now it's not the case, that's it!!
We need Parker to be the player he has been all these years, an offensive threat in the paint that break the defensive organisations of opposite teams and open lanes!!!!!
That's the way we won 3 les!!!!
Why change now???

This is a legitimate thread beacause Jefferson IS the real pb right now!
He is the 2nd best paid player and doesn't show it on the floor...
It's too easy to blame Parker on everything because he is the PG, everybody has a job to do, and even if he isn't scoring or having good "plays"/oportunities, RJ shoud AT LEAST bring some defense!!!

[pjjrfan]

He had the ball in his hands as a Buck..

Obviously he's been disappointing, but I don't know why people are blaming him..what exactly is he supposed to do when he doesn't have an opportunity to get in a rhythm, even when he's being guarded by guys like Kapono and Ray Allen?..

Well he could start by not making bonehead plays. He can play a lot better defense, and when he does get the ball he should be more aggressive and look to make a play instead of passing it up and disappearing. I can think of some more things but these seem like things he could possibly do and not have to worry about any playbook.

[The Truth #6]

No one is taking Jefferson from us so we'll probably have to learn to adapt to the current situation. Many of us have been saying RJ needs more time with the second unit. He should still start but get more time with Blair and Manu and Hill, which might open up his game. His wide open playing style seems more suited with the chaotic second unit anyway.

A few other random thoughts:

One of the first plays last night was a pick n roll with RJ and Tim, which ended with a dunk by RJ. I would continue with this sort of approach to see if it helps him get going. The fact that we've basically never tried it until last night is sort of odd.

The first unit pretty much is going to be Tony penetrate, pass to guy in corner, or two-man game with Duncan. The fact that Pop moved Manu to the second unit to free up his game is, I think, perfect foreshadowing for RJ's situation. Manu is a more creative player than RJ but even he took a backseat in the first unit to allow Tony and Tim to set the tempo and style of the offense. When Manu is on the second unit it really allows him to be more assertive. Perhaps the second unit would be a similar situation to when Tim and Tony were out and RJ was forced to step up his game?

If RJ does get more time with Manu on the second unit, then that won't be so bad. We'd have two all stars on both the first and second unit.

The problem comes down to our first unit offense which as others have alluded to is very rigid. Unless we get other players involved in the first team we're probably just going to wear down Tim and Tony, so I think for their own self-preservation they need to try and spread the offense. To whom is the problem. We could put Mason in the starting lineup for Bogans but then our defense struggles.

So, I think not enough "blame", so to speak, is going towards Bogans. Yes, he's playing good defense but his shooting has been absolutely horrible. If he can't hit the wide open 3 then he really hurts our options offensively.

[Pauleta14]

No one is taking Jefferson from us so we'll probably have to learn to adapt to the current situation. Many of us have been saying RJ needs more time with the second unit. He should still start but get more time with Blair and Manu and Hill, which might open up his game. His wide open playing style seems more suited with the chaotic second unit anyway.

A few other random thoughts:

One of the first plays last night was a pick n roll with RJ and Tim, which ended with a dunk by RJ. I would continue with this sort of approach to see if it helps him get going. The fact that we've basically never tried it until last night is sort of odd.

The first unit pretty much is going to be Tony penetrate, pass to guy in corner, or two-man game with Duncan. The fact that Pop moved Manu to the second unit to free up his game is, I think, perfect foreshadowing for RJ's situation. Manu is a more creative player than RJ but even he took a backseat in the first unit to allow Tony and Tim to set the tempo and style of the offense. When Manu is on the second unit it really allows him to be more assertive. Perhaps the second unit would be a similar situation to when Tim and Tony were out and RJ was forced to step up his game?

If RJ does get more time with Manu on the second unit, then that won't be so bad. We'd have two all stars on both the first and second unit.

The problem comes down to our first unit offense which as others have alluded to is very rigid. Unless we get other players involved in the first team we're probably just going to wear down Tim and Tony, so I think for their own self-preservation they need to try and spread the offense. To whom is the problem. We could put Mason in the starting lineup for Bogans but then our defense struggles.

So, I think not enough "blame", so to speak, is going towards Bogans. Yes, he's playing good defense but his shooting has been absolutely horrible. If he can't hit the wide open 3 then he really hurts our options offensively.

This could be a solution...
But the thing is his integration to the team is more about improvisation right now...
We have to find plays where he is constantly efficient and reliable!
The same way WE KNOW where to feed Mc Dyess (who is also a new guy!=no excuses), where he likes getting the ball and is efficient!!
I couldn't tell right know where RJ could be the most productive (exept having the ball a doing it all by himself!)

[murpjf88]

HE STILL SUCKS!!! December 15.

[Ice009]

I really don't want another Hedo situation here.

Is Jefferson actually softer than Hedo. I'm talking about 2004 Hedo. Is RJ softer?

We've really got to figure out what to do with him because I don't want another Hedo like player that scores 2 points a game in the playoffs against your biggest challengers.