Manu. Frickin. Ginobili.

**Interrohater** · 12-12-2009

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Players are not stocks. You don't buy low and sell high. When a player is at his peak value, it's stupid to trade him. Or when you think his value won't get any higher. If this were true, then we would have traded Duncan 2 years back for some young guys just to groom into all-stars, and then trade them again. The Spurs are not a farm or a D-league affiliate. We don't (and shouldn't!) trade guys when they mature like a savings bond. Can you imagine if we had traded Robinson when he was at his peak? We'd probably have no championships in the rafters and Spurstalk would be a 10 member website. But it would be the St. Louis Spurs or something like that.

If a player has crazy value, that's precisely the time that you want to keep him.

**z0sa** · 12-12-2009

Originally Posted by Interrohater

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Players are not stocks. You don't buy low and sell high. When a player is at his peak value, it's stupid to trade him. Or when you think his value won't get any higher. If this were true, then we would have traded Duncan 2 years back for some young guys just to groom into all-stars, and then trade them again. The Spurs are not a farm or a D-league affiliate. We don't (and shouldn't!) trade guys when they mature like a savings bond. Can you imagine if we had traded Robinson when he was at his peak? We'd probably have no championships in the rafters and Spurstalk would be a 10 member website. But it would be the St. Louis Spurs or something like that.

If a player has crazy value, that's precisely the time that you want to keep him.

Are you saying that because of this logic, we should not trade Manu? I think you are confused about the situation, then. Manu is NOT at his peak. If he was, would not even be thinking about trading him. The reason one could reasonably trade him is because of his expiring - it could net more, younger talent in return, especially in the case of a "gasol-like trade." A Gasol-like trade would push us over the top. There's also no guarantee Manu will even be healthy come this Spring, much less the next two afterwards (and there is no guarantee Manu will be a Spur after this spring, either - trading him before the trade deadline would guarantee a return on his value).

**YoMamaIsCallin** · 12-12-2009

This is all crazy talk. Manu is not going to be traded. And if anyone on the Spurs management team proposed trading him for Camby, they'd probably be fired.

**Cherry** · 12-12-2009

“He’s Manu Ginobili.”

and he will retire a Spur.

**z0sa** · 12-12-2009

Originally Posted by Cherry

Manu will retire a Spur.

That's how I always envisioned it.

**Chomag** · 12-12-2009

Originally Posted by Interrohater

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Players are not stocks. You don't buy low and sell high. When a player is at his peak value, it's stupid to trade him. Or when you think his value won't get any higher. If this were true, then we would have traded Duncan 2 years back for some young guys just to groom into all-stars, and then trade them again. The Spurs are not a farm or a D-league affiliate. We don't (and shouldn't!) trade guys when they mature like a savings bond. Can you imagine if we had traded Robinson when he was at his peak? We'd probably have no championships in the rafters and Spurstalk would be a 10 member website. But it would be the St. Louis Spurs or something like that.

If a player has crazy value, that's precisely the time that you want to keep him.

I disagree, the NBA does have a business side to it. Trading Manu would be a complete business decision.

Of course if you think of it with you heart no one would want to trade Manu just like some of you that are saying "Manu isnt going anywhere,he is going to retire a Spur."

I believe we currently only have 1 franchise player on our team and thats Tim.

**ElNono** · 12-12-2009

Originally Posted by z0sa

It isn't, and that's probably impossible anyway... No offense Manu, I still think you got tons of game but it's not 07 anymore.
Don't get me wrong, I agree last season we needed a superstar quality Manu to win it all and even then it was slim chances indeed with little margin for error.. but I'm not sure Manu has that ability in him anymore.
I think we just need Manu healthy, rested and at full strength (which isn't superstar level) along with the rest of the team clicking together and rolling. We still may need superstar-like games from him to notch wins over the Lakers or Denver or Dallas or _____ in the playoffs, sure... but now we're getting into an area where predictions are based on 3 different teams, a Spurs team with Manu on it, a Spurs team with who knows on it, and an opponent who may still make moves themselves.

I think we need a battle tested guy that's an X factor and that gives you a plus out there in the playoffs. Manu has proven he can be that guy. I don't really know who else could give you that, since they're most only superstar guys out there that do such stuff.

Originally Posted by z0sa

Disagree, if your definition of young guns is guys who had no chance of earning quality minutes on on this team.. trust me, I wouldn't give up this season for anything. I believe the Spurs have the team to win it all if Manu is healthy, but there's the next 2 seasons afterward to think about, too.. which is why I advocate trading for the right "younger guns" in the first place. No one knows if Manu can still play the way we know he can (and I'd be extremely surprised if he could consistently keep it up for a few years so that we're always in the le hunt until Timmy's retirement). If we could somehow get back to being the best defensive team in the League, I think we have the offense with TP, RJ and Tim (and dare I say guys like Dyess, Bonner, Mason and even Blair) to overcome any of the juggernaut teams'. The main question is who could we get to do that? I fully accept the notion no such trade may ever exist, and if so, let's keep Manu... I also admit that if the choice is too hard, I'd rather stick with Manu, as well; but that doesn't mean we should just ignore all options except your mysterious "gasol-like trade".

I have to think our FO does look at all the options out there all the time, and if you actually think about it, there's one constant: The Spurs do not trade for young guys. This FO trades for vets. All the young talent we have on our roster has been acquired through the draft. Have you given any thought of why that is?

Now, I understand your point about being an elite defensive team again. Unfortunately, I can count the extremely good perimeter players that could turn us back into that elite defensive team (basically replacing what Bowen gave us) with one hand: Artest, Battier, Bell, Ariza... and that's pretty much it (please, I might be missing someone, let me know). I don't think any of those guys are really available or are worth a Manu Ginobili...

Originally Posted by z0sa

What is your proposed Gasol-like trade?

I already said it should be superstar talent, like Wade or VC. Those guys are not available though, that's why I don't see any trades happening unless Manu gets injured again, at which point you would be trading for the value of his expiring contract and would get much less.

Originally Posted by z0sa

I've said already that there's no reason to sell low... Manu's skill level could still be very high (though I disagree it will ever be superstar level again, he won't get the minutes nor touches even if his body allowed), and his expiring is large.. he's worth more, perhaps even a lot more, than he should be - because of that unique combination.
That said, Tyrus Thomas and Salmons is a trade I wouldn't do... good players, I think, don't get me wrong. Thomas is too slow BBiq wise, despite his athletic prowess. He is one who just couldn't have the type of defensive stamp we need right now.. and a strong defender is something I wouldn't label Salmons. Beside, I think this is one of the times when you can trade an offensive player like Ginobili for strong defenders who lack offensive games, because we have enough offense to supplement them as long as we are holding teams below 90...
I don't have any trade ideas myself, because I'm not in the Spurs FO and I essentially don't watch other teams or know much about the CBA, admittedly. Yet I would be very surprised if there aren't fairly attractive offers for Manu on the table right now, just not good enough for the wary/smart FO to jump on.
I would be surprised if they traded Manu, period. I'm not sure why they would trade him for another perimeter scorer though, since we have an overload of those..

I think it would have to be a ridiculously lopsided trade, or simply Manu getting seriously injured again, and then trading his expiring. You can't only think what you're getting in return if he's healthy. You also have to think he'll be running another contender's bench next season, and how that complicates your own pursuit of a championship.

**ElNono** · 12-12-2009

Originally Posted by Chomag

I disagree, the NBA does have a business side to it. Trading Manu would be a complete business decision.

Of course if you think of it with you heart no one would want to trade Manu just like some of you that are saying "Manu isnt going anywhere,he is going to retire a Spur."

I believe we currently only have 1 franchise player on our team and thats Tim.

Well, looking at it from a business side, Ginobili, and not the franchise player, I believe is the top merchandise seller for the team. So when you look at the business, you have to look at all aspects of it.

**TMTTRIO** · 12-13-2009

I just don't see how he gets traded. It's not like we're going to get a great steal for a superstar with him and as for trading him for some younger guys if Manu can stay healthy from now until trade deadline why would you want to risk loosing Manu and hoping the new guy can come in right away and fill his role without it affecting the chemistry with the team or even it taking a lot of time to adjust (of course if we continue to struggle it wouldn't matter). After this year with Manu going into FA we can afford some other players if we need to.

**thOOdee** · 12-13-2009

I believe

**emanueldavidginobili** · 12-13-2009

manu looked good for the third straight game in arow, keep going manu and stay healthy!

**Manu-of-steel** · 12-14-2009

i don't see any player that is available in the trade block who can give what manu can give to spurs. If there is any, that would not be a plus because the chemistry would be disrupted. I don't see a trade coming for manu.

**Josepatches_** · 12-14-2009

No way we can get anyone better than Manu for us if we trade him.

He's old,he had a lot of problems with his health in the past years.

But if he's healthy there aren't many players in the league better than him.His health is one of the key of the season for us but he is not the same for others NBA teams because they don't know him as well to offer the best players for him.

So his trade value is lower than his real value for us.

If Manu is free then teams like Lakers,Boston or the Cavs could be really interested on him because they don't need him to fight for the tle so it's not a high risk if he has another health problem. He would be only one more piece of the puzzle.

But the rest of the teams can offer us for him what Manu can give us