Israel Feeling Rising Anger From the U.S.

[Ignignokt]

That's my point though. Israel seems like they have enough armaments to defend themself, and MAYBE THEY SHOULD.

Like the little kid in school who gets bullied and relies on his bigger, older friend to back him up. Eventually, the kid needs to learn how to punch people out.

I am tentatively fine with Israel taking up their own defense. I think you'd find that they'd think twice about 'dropping a nuke', as they wouldn't have much international support then. Especially without America over their shoulder to watch out for them. In fact, they might have to rely on diplomacy, amazingly enough.

And if they didn't? Well, the consequences are on their head... not America. Sounds good to me.

dumb assumption.

If we stop our support financially for israel, the UN will sanction them and levy economic penalties. There will be a chance for either russia or china to arm syria or iran, me thinks syria. It will get ugly.

[Winehole23]

If we stop our support financially for israel, the UN will sanction them and levy economic penalties. There will be a chance for either russia or china to arm syria or iran, me thinks syria. It will get ugly.

Presumes the US will cease to use its UN veto in Israel's favor.

Silly assumption.

[sook]

Never ever mistake me for having any love for jews.

But i am pro israeli only because i understand the dogs arab leaders and fanatics are. I don't support them for being "God's People", i support them for having won their right to their land since the 67 war, which they won. It's their land. If the arabs want to take back some of that land, tell them to go themselves. They waged a war, they should live by the results.

Israel should not give up any part of it's land just to appease the arabs ridiculous demands to have the right of arab return only to endanger the israeli populace once they lose their sovereignty. Their demands are irrational. Us telling them to act and play along is idiotic and a waste of time.

HAVING SAID ALL THAT...

We are funding them, a little common courtesy would be nice. And they should respect us.

But now i'm starting to get fed up with these heads in Israel and the AIPAC.

That's what you get for supporting a guy with a muslim background, who attended a church that had antisemitic rants. You jews deserve everything you get for being so dumb to take a chance with Barrack OBama.

No sympathy for AIPAC and it's treasonous travelers who have spyed on our country.

I actually agree with this statement. If they give up land, I think it would be never ending circle of needs again. That is why I think "Stopping building of settlements" is the way to go. Just stop expanding, whats been done has been done.

I always thought you were heavily biased, but I agree with your statement. That last statement that they jews deserve it is wrong thouhg. I have many jewish friends who don't advocate Israel, Freidman, the author of the article is jewish himself. I think jewish americans are clearly more american that Israeli.

[Gummi Clutch]

The U.S and Israel need to remain allies, stupid liberals on here that offer a plan on the other extreme need to get their heads out of their asses.

Now with everything aside....

What israel just did was downright disrespectful, and as a strong proponent of theirs even I have to say that at the moment our interests do not coincide. They need to wake the up and realize that allies don't do that to each other.

I am republican but I would appreciate if Wild Cobra would shut the up. Your not going to get your own radio show by saying stupid you attention . Don't try to bring the rest of us down with your nonsensicle bull , I would very much like to keep my IQ intact.

Please ignore Wild Cobra, he DOESN'T speak for the rest of us.

[Wild Cobra]

Please ignore Wild Cobra, he DOESN'T speak for the rest of us.

Could that be because I am not a republican?

[Wild Cobra]

What israel just did was downright disrespectful, and as a strong proponent of theirs even I have to say that at the moment our interests do not coincide. They need to wake the up and realize that allies don't do that to each other.

Just what did they do to us?

[Gummi Clutch]

Just what did they do to us?

Is playing stupid your new shtick now or what? Why do you continually ask questions you already know the answer to, me and you both know you aren't that dumb.


Lets see, Israeli President announces plans to build new settlements on the DAY president Biden comes over for peace talks? Now lets see, any normal person pretending not to have down syndrome would acknowledge that to be a clear answer from Israel about how they want to progress with peace talks, which are WAY out of the question when just discussing settlments. It is a clear sign of disrespectful conduct, something ALLIES do not do to each other. I may not like biden, but he is representing something bigger than just himself...an ENTIRE ING NATION.

Now how about this, a top pentagon official was quoted as saying "Its too old and too late...", openly stating how Israel is ing our status in the mideast by doing this. Don't bother replying to this unless you want to crawl out of your little vagina and demonstrate some RUDIMENTARY reading comprehension..ok?

[Gummi Clutch]

Could that be because I am not a republican?

GOOD, Because your actually a ING MORON.

[Bender]

GOOD, Because your actually a ING MORON.

president biden?

[Wild Cobra]

Lets see, Israeli President announces plans to build new settlements on the DAY president Biden comes over for peace talks?

That isn't doing something to us. They never agreed not to build in east Jerusalem.

My God... Get a grip!

[RandomGuy]

Well, my criticism is they have become soft. They should have decimated their attackers in December 2008. The Palestinians only respect strength. Unless Israel makes it too painful for them to keep attacking, they can expect it again.

Am I anti-Semetic?

What Israel is essentially doing is fighting a low intensity conflict, i.e. a counter-insurgency.

The "use bigger bombs" thing pretty much goes counter to modern US military understanding of how such things should be fought.

Often that response, although gratifyingly emotional, is also one of the worst things you can do.

Take some time to read the most recent counterinsurgency manual. It is a distillation of all the nation-building experience we have gained over the last 40+ years, and was the driving strategy behind the "surge" in Iraq.

http://www.state.gov/do ents/organization/119629.pdf

What you advocate here, "i.e. use bigger bombs and wipe them all out", is not only ineffective, but would actually make things very predictably worse.

Why do you advocate such an ineffective solution?

[Wild Cobra]

What Israel is essentially doing is fighting a low intensity conflict, i.e. a counter-insurgency.
<snip>

Random, I would agree with you if this was a different enemy. Being driven by religious fanatics, it's a whole different game. Those fanatics need to be exterminated, and short of that, the people who harbor them out of fear, will do so unless they fear harboring them more.

War is ugly. There is no clean way to stop the fanatics.

[Winehole23]

There's religious fanaticism on both sides, and as Extra Stout used to say, the Israel-Palestinian conflict is essentially a war of irredentism.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...&postcount=101

[RandomGuy]

Random, I would agree with you if this was a different enemy. Being driven by religious fanatics, it's a whole different game. Those fanatics need to be exterminated, and short of that, the people who harbor them out of fear, will do so unless they fear harboring them more.

War is ugly. There is no clean way to stop the fanatics.

Your underlying assumption that they are all "religious fanatics" is fallacious as well.

Religious differences, although important, is not *the* main driving factor, but one of several, the most important of which is resentment that their country was essentially invaded and occupied.

Do you always over-simplify everything like this?

[Wild Cobra]

Your underlying assumption that they are all "religious fanatics" is fallacious as well.

No, I don't believe that. Please don't make assumptions about my beliefs, they will throw you off track.

Religious differences, although important, is not *the* main driving factor, but one of several, the most important of which is resentment that their country was essentially invaded and occupied.

I'm sure there are some with that viewpoint, but I cannot believe that's what makes them fight us the way they do.

Do you always over-simplify everything like this?

I don't think I am. I know there are more complexities, but if you could removed the "jihad" aspect of it, the remaining who would fight are far easier to subdue.

[RandomGuy]

No, I don't believe that. Please don't make assumptions about my beliefs, they will throw you off track.

I'm sure there are some with that viewpoint, but I cannot believe that's what makes them fight us the way they do.

I don't think I am. I know there are more complexities, but if you could removed the "jihad" aspect of it, the remaining who would fight are far easier to subdue.

You mean like Ireland was for the British?

Virulent nationalism has motivated suicide attacks before in human history. Killing masses of civilians just requires that you de-humanize them, and that doesn't take religion, although religion is certainly used to do that.

Sometimes, the more force is used, the less effective it is
Any use of force produces many effects, not all of which can be foreseen. The more force applied, the greater the chance of collateral damage and mistakes. Using substantial force also increases the opportunity for insurgent propaganda to portray lethal military activities as brutal. In contrast, using force precisely and discriminately strengthens the rule of law that needs to be established. As noted above, the key for counterinsurgents is knowing when more force is needed—and when it might be counterproductive. This judgment involves constant assessment of the security situation and a sense of timing regarding insurgents’ actions.

There is a time and place for killing, but "guns blazing" approaches didn't work for the US in Vietnam, didn't work for the Soviets in Afghanistan, didn't work for the Germans in WW2, the British in India etc. etc. etc.

[sook]

wtf?


New FBI Files Alleging AIPAC Theft of Government Property and Israeli Espionage Released

03.10.10, 10:59 AM ET

WASHINGTON, March 10 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Declassified files detailing an FBI investigation targeting the American Israel Public Affairs Committee are now available on the Internet. AIPAC was investigated after it acquired and circulated classified government information provided in strict confidence by US industry and worker groups opposed to AIPAC sponsored economic legislation.

The 50 pages now available as portable do ent files (PDF) include:

FBI reports of Israelis circulating classified do ents in the US Congress, "compromising" the authority of the U.S. President. http://irmep.org/ila/economy/06201984.pdf

US Trade Representative concerns that AIPAC was tactically "divulging" classified information supplied by US industries opposed to AIPAC lobbying initiatives. http://irmep.org/ila/economy/06211984.pdf

Reports from the International Trade Commission that AIPAC and Israeli operatives "usurped" US government authority and that an Israeli intelligence service operative was working undercover on AIPAC's staff: http://irmep.org/ila/economy/08131984r.pdf

Internal Department of Justice prosecutorial opinions that "theft of government property" had occurred: http://irmep.org/ila/economy/08301984.pdf

An FBI director order that the Washington Field office give the AIPAC investigation top priority after Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard was caught on video surveillance stealing classified US national defense information: http://irmep.org/ila/economy/11151985.pdf

FBI special agent interviews of Israeli minister of economics Dan Halpern who claimed diplomatic immunity. Halpern admitted passing classified US do ents to AIPAC but refused to name his source: http://irmep.org/ila/economy/03071986DHALERN.pdf

FBI special agent interviews of AIPAC's former director of legislative affairs detailing how he made copies of the classified do ents for AIPAC's lobbying use after being ordered to return them to the US government. http://irmep.org/ila/economy/02131986DB.pdf

FBI interviews of key AIPAC employees involved in handling the classified US government information (full do ent listing): http://irmep.org/ila/economy/

According to research director Grant F. Smith, the newly released files present startling new insights into AIPAC's activities in the United States. "These files, available on the Internet for the first time, reveal activities that undermined rule of law and governance. They have wrought massive economic harm to American businesses and workers. We urge all concerned Americans to carefully review and ponder the implications of these FBI files and other do ents now available from the Israel Lobby Archive."

The Israel Lobby Archive, http://IRmep.org/ila is a unit of the Ins ute for Research: Middle Eastern Policy in Washington. The Archive digitizes declassified do ents obtained through Freedom of Information Act filings with law enforcement, economic, diplomatic and intelligence agencies. IRmep is a Washington-based nonprofit that studies U.S. Middle East policy formulation.