Retirement from Spurstalk

[mavs>spurs2]

Kobe Bryant doesn't attack the rim anymore than Joe Johnson does these days, the majority of his point come in the midrange game. Yes Gasol gets easy shots but I assumed you were referring to guys who "attack the basket", and I wouldn't really describe Gasol as someone who does that.

i still think that kobe attacks the rim more than joe johnson, even today. i'd have to look it up to see exactly how many points he scores in the paint, but i'm sure it is more. and no i'm not picky on how the mavs get their easy points, i'm just saying that its a problem that we need to address and there aren't many great post scorers on the market. do you have any suggestions?

My agenda is to point out that having an athletic, ultra quick guard who can attack the rim is overrated.

getting easy points in crunch time of playoff games is most certainly not overrated.

I'm not trying to single you out since a lot of people disagree with me here, but against a team like LA that has two 7 footers who rotate well congesting the paint all the quickness in the world won't change the fact beaubois would have difficulty shooting over Gasol and Bynum. How effective was Rondo's penetration in the half court against LA? In a tight halfcourt playoff game with good defense being played, you're only gonna get so many high percentage shots at the rim, the only shots you end up getting are midrange shots.

yes LA did limit rondo's effectiveness, but that's just what good defensive teams do. Rondo was still one of the more productive players in that series for either team. And Boston has Pierce to attack the rim and use his size to post up, both of which gets him easy shots. my point is that the mavs don't have a guy like that. the lebrons, wades, kobes, pierces of the league are still going to get to the rim and get their share of easy points no matter how long or good the defense is. the teams that are forced to settle on "midrange shots" as you say are usually the teams that lose.

[mavs>spurs2]

That's just silly to act like jj does not improve the mavs over turtle head and Roddy. Mavs aren't that far off and upgrading talent at a position of need is not a bad idea.

it's not about terry, terry sucks and should have a limited role next year. this is about joe johnson not addressing the issues that need to be addressed. yes, he is better than JET, no he is not putting us over the top or anywhere near the top for that matter. we should pursue someone who is a better fit and addresses our needs.

[DPG21920]

Who? JJ is likely the best available and I think you are underrating him. Like I said i don't see very many other options.

[mavs>spurs2]

Who? JJ is likely the best available and I think you are underrating him. Like I said i don't see very many other options.

there really aren't, and this is why i am not very optimistic about next season. i'd rather plan for the future and keep beaubois than sign JJ for max money. we all gotta wake up and face the music sometime..even if your name is monosylab1k

[Goran Dragic]

i still think that kobe attacks the rim more than joe johnson, even today. i'd have to look it up to see exactly how many points he scores in the paint, but i'm sure it is more.

Joe Johnson's shot selection (http://www.82games.com/0910/09ATL5.HTM):
79% jumpers
18% close
1% dunk
2% tip

Kobe Bryant's shot selection (http://www.82games.com/0910/09LAL5.HTM):
77% jumpers
20% close
2% dunk
0% tip

Almost identical shot selection. Less than 1 shot per game difference.

and no i'm not picky on how the mavs get their easy points, i'm just saying that its a problem that we need to address and there aren't many great post scorers on the market. do you have any suggestions?

Not saying you were picky, I just thought when you said someone who attacks the rim you were referring to guards who can drive.

getting easy points in crunch time of playoff games is most certainly not overrated.

You don't get easy points in crunchtime of playoff games. Even the Phoenix Suns played good enough defense against the Spurs in tight playoff games to prevent Tony Parker from getting easy shots at the rim. Close playoff games are won by wings who can shoot from anywhere on the court.

yes LA did limit rondo's effectiveness, but that's just what good defensive teams do. Rondo was still one of the more productive players in that series for either team.

Not in the 4th quarter of any of the close games he wasn't.

And Boston has Pierce to attack the rim and use his size to post up, both of which gets him easy shots. my point is that the mavs don't have a guy like that.

The majority of Pierce's shots are jumpers. Yes, his size gets him more shots closer to the rim, but the shots he takes late in close playoff games are midrange shots.

the lebrons, wades, kobes, pierces of the league are still going to get to the rim and get their share of easy points no matter how long or good the defense is. the teams that are forced to settle on "midrange shots" as you say are usually the teams that lose.

How many easy shots at the rim did Lebron have against Boston at critical times? How many easy shots at the rim did Kobe have against Boston at critical times? I'm not denying they get their share of easy shots, but easy shots are a rare occurence late in close playoff games.

[mavs>spurs2]

DoK..Parker, Pierce, Lebron etc DO get to the rim in crunch time of close games. Paul Pierce takes it to the rim like a ing man. Those guys either get the layup, or draw the foul and parade to the line in crunch time. free throws are also another form of easy points. you can't tell me with a straight face that those guys don't shoot TONS of free throws at the end of ballgames. And while maybe i overrated kobe's ability to get to the rim these days, he's still great at getting to the line. that's easy points. and he also has a well balanced team with guys like odom, gasol, and bynum who all 3 get their share of easy points. all three are great rebounders and get a lot of putbacks on their own. My point is that the mavs don't have this ability to generate easy points, while the good teams do, and if we are trying to become a good team then this is the first thing that needs to be addressed. joe johnson doesn't address it, even if he was a former sun and you really liked him.

[Goran Dragic]

DoK..Parker, Pierce, Lebron etc DO get to the rim in crunch time of close games. Paul Pierce takes it to the rim like a ing man. Those guys either get the layup, or draw the foul and parade to the line in crunch time. free throws are also another form of easy points. you can't tell me with a straight face that those guys don't shoot TONS of free throws at the end of ballgames.

Tony Parker does not shoot a ton of free throws at the end of ball games, Manu Ginobili might, but Parker doesn't. At the end of close playoff games, speedy point guards like Parker and Rondo are about as useful as an asshole on your elbow. Lebron does get his share of foul shots and easy points, but were talking about the most athletically gifted basketball player ever. If he were an option for Dallas I'd say trade for him instead of JJ.

And while maybe i overrated kobe's ability to get to the rim these days, he's still great at getting to the line. that's easy points.

Does he get to the line because of his speed and athleticism, or does he get to the line because he's a polished offensive player who can shoot from anywhere and get defenders in bad position?

and he also has a well balanced team with guys like odom, gasol, and bynum who all 3 get their share of easy points. all three are great rebounders and get a lot of putbacks on their own.

While his point guard's job is to camp and shoot 3 pointers.

My point is that the mavs don't have this ability to generate easy points, while the good teams do, and if we are trying to become a good team then this is the first thing that needs to be addressed. joe johnson doesn't address it, even if he was a former sun and you really liked him.

Roddy Beaubois doesn't address it either. Point guards/combo guards are simply not reliable, productive late game players when you're deep in the playoffs. Look at the Spurs Hornets series in 2008 as another example. Parker and CP3 were tearing it up the entire series, game 7 goes into the 4th quarter with both teams capable of winning it, and who ends up closing the game out? CP3 is forced to defer to Jannero Pargo and Parker is forced to defer to Manu Ginobili, and the Spurs win since Manu > Pargo.

[MavDynasty]

lol cp3 deferring to jannero ing pargo in game 7

[DPG21920]

So essentially you are saying the mavs should s&t Dirk? That is where your logic is headed.

[Goran Dragic]

So essentially you are saying the mavs should s&t Dirk? That is where your logic is headed.

I don't think m>s is one of the Mavfans who would argue with you there, but you're 100% right. People blaming the SG and PG position for not getting any shots at the rim when you have a 7 foot power forward who gets no shots at the rim is some of the most backwards logic I've ever seen.

[Muser]

lol italy.

[redzero]

I skipped from page 2 to page 6 and was magically transported to that Dwyane Wade/Mavericks topic.

[NRHector]

I skipped from page 2 to page 6 and was magically transported to that Dwyane Wade/Mavericks topic.

exactly, I don't think that's what OP was expecting

[mavs>spurs2]

So essentially you are saying the mavs should s&t Dirk? That is where your logic is headed.

i wouldn't mind it for the right young player, but i don't want to blow it up just to blow it up. i also think it's unfair and selfish to keep dirk here and not surround him with a supporting cast that can help him win a ring just so the mavs can stay "slightly better than mediocre." sup mono. (i only say this because as mono so kindly pointed out, mediocre would be being the 14th best team in the league, and the mavs are maybe the 10th!) the man deserves his ing ring.

[mavs>spurs2]

Roddy Beaubois doesn't address it either. Point guards/combo guards are simply not reliable, productive late game players when you're deep in the playoffs. Look at the Spurs Hornets series in 2008 as another example. Parker and CP3 were tearing it up the entire series, game 7 goes into the 4th quarter with both teams capable of winning it, and who ends up closing the game out? CP3 is forced to defer to Jannero Pargo and Parker is forced to defer to Manu Ginobili, and the Spurs win since Manu > Pargo.

please, don't change this to the point guard argument again. I never said that the mavs needed a ball dominant pg in order to contend. i said we need to somehow generate easy points. whether that be a take over guy like kobe who gets to the line with his offensive skill, a slasher like dwade or lebron who can get to the rim and draw the foul, a low post scorer like gasol, or any other way you can dream up.

[sook]

you. Don't' ever come back son.

And where is that fool rogue?

[monosylab1k]

i wouldn't mind it for the right young player

only one guy in the league fits that description, imho

[mavs>spurs2]

you. Don't' ever come back son.

And where is that fool rogue?

ing your mother

regards

[sook]

ing your mother

regards

you don't know that. He could be on top of your mother for all youknow.

[FkLA]

4 rings got

[BUMP]

lol

[BUMP]

Too many people PMed me begging me to come back