Colangelo slams Bosh

[Greg Oden]

picc84 makes it a point to post about Dallas at least a couple times a day.

[ambchang]

It's easy to say that Bosh is overrated

It's not his fault if his team has sucked and that he hasnt had a good coach yet
Plus, Amare has played with a 2 time MVP, Bosh hasn't

And nobody said he was overrated when the Raptors won their division

Check my history on Bosh, I felt he has been overrated after his rookie season. He is incredibly quick for a guy his size, has amazing agility, but his defense is poor. He has all the tools, but never put that to use.

The year the Raptors won the Atlantic? They were 47-35. The Raptors played some defense. In the 14 games Bosh didn't start, the Raptors were 7-7.

And who else was in the division? The Nets (41-41), 76ers (35-47), Knicks (33-49), and Celtics (24-58). It was definitely the tallest midget situation.

[Mel_13]

Sorry Mel, I got you confused with Amuseddaysleeper.

[DPG21920]

Picklebreath confused on the argument, shocking.

[DPG21920]

I think it is hilarious how your tune has changed Goran. Now you laugh at people saying Bosh is better than Amare? I think Bosh is better than Amare, but not by a huge margin when you take all factors into consideration.

But to laugh at people who say Bosh is better, when the difference between the two might not be great is the only thing that is laughable imo.

Stop breathing through your mouth, picklebreath. It is the wrong way to breathe tbh.

[SpursDynasty85]

Amare has proven this year that he is much, much better than Bosh. Replace Bosh with him on the Heat, so Lebron and Wade actually have a pick and roll weapon/interior scorer instead if a shooting guard in a power forward's body, good luck to any team beating them in the playoffs.

Its sort of like the Jordan/Kobe argument. One is the flashier more talented player. While the other is just the mentally and physically stronger. Bosh is undoubtedly more skilled than Amare, but Amare is a bully and could physically beatdown bosh and alot of other players.

[HeavyWeight]

Well, whoever said Bosh was better is looking like a idiot now. hahaha

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

lol

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Bosh is a third option, Amare is a first.

Bump this at the end of the year, and I'll gladly give Amare his props.

NY has had a very soft schedule lately, and we all know Amare goes through spurts where he plays really well, and then goes back to going through the motions.

He is having a very solid season so far, no doubt.

Also, it's obvious picklebreath = DoK/Goran Dragic poster.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Yet the team with Amare as the main option is only 1 game worse than the team with Bosh as the 3rd option, and both teams have had equally soft schedules. What's Bosh's team's record against above .500 teams again?

Tell you what, at the end of the season, let's see who has the better record vs +.500 teams. I have no problem giving Amare his due, dude has been beasting. Bosh's play has improved over the past few games. Funny how we didn't see this thread being made when NY got off to a mediocre start. You only make this once a 7 game win streak against soft teams happened.

At the end of the year let's see which team will have the better record against +.500 teams and if the Knicks even make the playoffs.

Trust me, I'll be more than happy to give Amare his credit, but if he was a third option he wouldn't be doing that much better than Bosh. I also love how you feel Bosh should get all of the blame for Miami's struggles instead of bringing up how Wade and LBJ need the ball in their hands at all times which makes the team's construction pretty flawed. Amare also wouldn't help the interior D much either.

[DPG21920]

Amare is playing much, much better than Bosh, although both got off to slower starts and have picked it up.

Again, you have to look at the situation. Amare has a usage rate of 30+, while Bosh is only around 23.

Amare is playing with a guy in Felton who is playing like a top 5 PG, but even though he is their 2nd best player, he only has a usage rate of 22. They play at an extremely high pace compared to MIA who is one of the slowest teams in the league.

Bosh plays with two players who's usage rates are up above 30. Amare has no one even close to that, as the 2nd best player on his team is far below that.

Yes, in theory, playing with Wade/Lebron should be easier, but if you look at how things have played out and what that team is, it is a lot of ignoring the post, a lot of grinding things out and focus on defense.

There is a reason why MIA is the best defensive team in the league and why they play at a snails pace.

NY doesn't play defense. They are 18th in defensive efficiency while MIA is #1. Even though NY plays at 3rd fastest pace, they are still behind MIA in offensive efficiency (meaning when normalizing the numbers, MIA is the better offensive team).

So don't act like Amare has definitively proven anything yet. Use your brain and evaluate the situation. Amare is playing better but my point remains, whomever you believe is better, the difference is probably not that great. If things keep going they way they are, Amare will definitely but enough gap between the two to say he is definitively better, but from everything we have seen for their careers, it could be argued either way.

[DPG21920]

Oh gee I wonder why Felton is playing like a top 5 PG, it couldn't possibly be because he's playing with Amare, could it?

I wonder why Wade/Lebron are playing so well and have PERs of 20+, it couldn't possibly be because they are playing with Bosh down low, could it?

I wonder why MIA is the number one defensive team in the league, it couldn't be because of Bosh, could it?

I wonder why MIA is a better offensive team than NY, it couldn't be because they chose Bosh over Amare, could it?

[DPG21920]

You have terrible arguments and even when you end up being correct, it is not because you understand what happened, it is because of blind dumb luck.

If everyone pointed out when you were wrong, there would be so many bumped threads that there would be no room for the new ones, which is a shame tbh..

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Unlike Bosh, Amare is capable of playing without the ball in his hands. He'd be beasting as a pick and roll threat for Lebron and Wade to use since he's definitely one of the best finishers in the game. Bosh meanwhile, prefers to chuck jumpers and stay away from the rim, so Lebron and Wade struggle to run pick and rolls with him. Amare would excel in Bosh's role a lot more than Bosh is.

Maybe Amare wouldn't help their perimeter defense, but he wouldn't let Paul Millsap drop 46 points either.

I don't know about "a lot" more. And LOL at thinking Raymond Felton being a potential top 5 PG is thanks to Amare. Amare is gonna miss 15 games this season due to some random injury, dude is very injury prone.

Why are you being DoK's anyway? Or at least admit that you're him?

[DPG21920]

1) No, Bosh doesn't play down low. He prefers to shoot jumpers. The Heat are one of the worst teams at getting points in the paint, so I'm not sure how much having Bosh "down low" has helped them. Maybe if he actually played down low, he would help.

2) What do you think? Is the strength of Miami's defense it's perimeter defense or interior defense? Most would say their interior D is a weakness.

3) Miami's offensive rating is 110.7, New York's offensive rating is 110.6. So far, Miami has been better offensively by the slimmest of margins. Do you really think their good offense has more to do with Bosh or more to do with Lebron or Wade?

So you can't answer anything with numbers to back them up and you are validating all the numbers I gave were correct.

Thanks for playing.

[DPG21920]

Amare is playing much, much better than Bosh, although both got off to slower starts and have picked it up.

Again, you have to look at the situation. Amare has a usage rate of 30+, while Bosh is only around 23.

Amare is playing with a guy in Felton who is playing like a top 5 PG, but even though he is their 2nd best player, he only has a usage rate of 22. They play at an extremely high pace compared to MIA who is one of the slowest teams in the league.

Bosh plays with two players who's usage rates are up above 30. Amare has no one even close to that, as the 2nd best player on his team is far below that.

Yes, in theory, playing with Wade/Lebron should be easier, but if you look at how things have played out and what that team is, it is a lot of ignoring the post, a lot of grinding things out and focus on defense.

There is a reason why MIA is the best defensive team in the league and why they play at a snails pace.

NY doesn't play defense. They are 18th in defensive efficiency while MIA is #1. Even though NY plays at 3rd fastest pace, they are still behind MIA in offensive efficiency (meaning when normalizing the numbers, MIA is the better offensive team).

So don't act like Amare has definitively proven anything yet. Use your brain and evaluate the situation. Amare is playing better but my point remains, whomever you believe is better, the difference is probably not that great. If things keep going they way they are, Amare will definitely but enough gap between the two to say he is definitively better, but from everything we have seen for their careers, it could be argued either way.

Address everything in here and use numbers/facts, not opinion, to back up why I am wrong, K, thanks.

[DPG21920]

Couldn't be because of pace, could it? Couldn't be due to a PG friendly system that allowed Duhon (without Amare) to post career numbers, could it?

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Couldn't be because of pace, could it? Couldn't be due to a PG friendly system that allowed Duhon (without Amare) to post career numbers, could it?

DPG bringing the goods

[DPG21920]

Also, just to clarify, all of the "could it's" I'm posting are not because I actually believe it. I post them to show how stupid it is to make random arguments that are clearly more correlation than causation.

[Mel_13]

If it's not because of Amare then what is the reason Felton has made a random and huge improvement in his play when he had more or less been the same player for 5 straight years? Last season he had his worst numbers since his rookie year, if it's not Amare, then explain why Felton goes from his 2nd worst season statistically to BY FAR his best season statistically?

Asked

Couldn't be because of pace, could it? Couldn't be due to a PG friendly system that allowed Duhon (without Amare) to post career numbers, could it?

Answered

[Mel_13]

Just to clarify, what this hypothetical says is that Felton isn't really a top 5 PG, he's just in a system that inflates his stats and makes him look better than he is. How many different PGs does Amare need to be successful with before you admit he's good on his own and don't attribute his good play to whoever the PG on his team is?

Anyone that says Amare is not a good player is an idiot. Similarly, anyone who won't admit that his numbers have been inflated by playing the great majority of his career in D'Antoni's system is delusional.

[DPG21920]

Ignoring that you made a terrible argument

[YoungB]

Prior to this year, yes. Now that we see Amare is just as efficient as the 1st option as he is as Nash's sidekick, while Bosh is just as inefficient as the 3rd option as he is as the 1st option, Amare is the better player.

This. Bosh's game just never passed the eyeball test to me, he's ty as a #1 option and apparently not effective without the ball in his hand as a #3 option. First big man I've ever known to have his rebounding and shot blocking numbers dip just because he's playing besides superstar GUARDS. I could see his rebounding and shot blocking numbers dip if he was playing alongside dwight howard, but that's not even the case. 7.5 rebounds and .6 blocks per game as a supposed "superstar big man" is just pathetic.

[DPG21920]

I never attributed Amare's good play strictly to the PG's he is playing with. Never. I also never said he wasn't a good player. I said that based on everything I have seen during their careers that I think Bosh is better. I also said that I can see why someone could argue Amare.

I said Amare is playing better now.

You just keep making terrible arguments and piggybacking on arguments that are not your own.

What I did do is evaluate the cir stances both players are in. You have failed to do so.

[YoungB]

Anyone that says Amare is not a good player is an idiot. Similarly, anyone who won't admit that his numbers have been inflated by playing the great majority of his career in D'Antoni's system is delusional.

Not sure how D'Antoni's system is helping him get a steal a game as a big man, grab a fair amount of defensive rebounds, and get 2 blocks. Funny how guys like Joe Johnson's fg% stayed the same during his years in phoenix as it has with other teams, meaning that a playing at a faster pace may get you more shots and therefore more points, but it won't necessarily make you convert at a higher efficiency. Amare's career fg% is ridiculous.