D-Will to the Nets

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't really see how Howard would end up in NY..he'll probably be a Laker..

[InRareForm]

someone photoshop Deron with Pauly D, Situation, and Vinny

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

damn Nets russian owner took a dump on Knicks front office.

Isiah

Deron is pissed he has to play in New Jersey. He's opting out. Worst case scenario, NY "settles" for Chris Paul.

[Cry Havoc]

tbh it's pretty funny how after this post Cry Havoc disappeared from this thread faster than rails of cocaine off thispego's coffee table.

Still here. Just working. I've never had a problem admitting I'm wrong before, either.

[picc84]

Deron played well in a couple games, but I think Boozer was a bigger reason why the Nuggets lost to the Jazz. And Carmelo averaged 30 PPG in that series. I think Carmelo's horrible performance in the series clinching game 6 has your memory skewed. In fact, two of Deron's three best games in that series were in losses.

Overall, Deron did play well against the Nuggets. But to put it on Carmelo who put up 31 and 9 in that series is a bit much. He had a poor shooting performance in the series clincher but Deron did not "destroy" Carmelo.

I don't put the loss on Melo. I thought he was the shining beacon for Denver in that series.

But Deron outplayed him thoroughly IMO. Especially in the clutch/4th quarter. Part of the reason Boozer was so effective was because Deron was getting him the ball in the right spots and finding him under the rim, like a master surgeon. In fact, thats what Deron was in that series. A surgeon. He made all of his teammates better and scored when he needed to. His brilliance stole homecourt advantage and helped to keep it. Easily did more for the injured Jazz team than Melo did for the Nuggets.

Whether you think Deron destroyed him/them or not, I don't see how its a tough debate as to who is better. Melo is a great player but Deron is a dominating one.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't put the loss on Melo. I thought he was the shining beacon for Denver in that series.

But Deron outplayed him thoroughly IMO. Especially in the clutch/4th quarter. Part of the reason Boozer was so effective was because Deron was getting him the ball in the right spots and finding him under the rim, like a master surgeon. In fact, thats what Deron was in that series. A surgeon. He made all of his teammates better and scored when he needed to. His brilliance stole homecourt advantage and helped to keep it. Easily did more for the injured Jazz team than Melo did for the Nuggets.

Whether you think Deron destroyed him/them or not, I don't see how its a tough debate as to who is better. Melo is a great player but Deron is a dominating one.

I don't really see how you can call Deron "dominant", but put Carmelo at an entirely different level of inferiority..I'm not a fan of Anthony at all, but I can't see how you can make that argument..Deron might be better, but they're certainly on the same level..

[JamStone]

To be fair, and this is something people forget, but Paul Pierce had already been on a top 5 defensive team, prior to KG, and another top 10 defensive team, during the Celtics' Pierce-Walker runs in the East..Pierce had the #1 defensive rating and the #1 on/off +/- on both of those teams, meaning an argument could easily be made, that he was the most impactful defender on those Celtics teams..

Pierce was never an elite, or even standout defender, at any time during his career, but he's always bought in to the team defense aspect of basketball IMO..

Carmelo has been on 1 or 2 good defensive teams, but his impact on D was never significant, he was always in the middle of the pack in team importance, defensively..I don't think he has the basketball IQ to be a notable defender, but we'll see..

Fair. Pierce has been solid defensively for much of his career. And as you suggest, Pierce has actually put forth the effort, which is sometimes the biggest thing. Melo has the physical ability (size, strength, athleticism) at his position to be a good defender. And for him, all it would take for him to be a good "individual" defender is consistent effort. His basketball IQ is more important in regards to him becoming a better "team" defender. And you're right, we'll have to see if he can do that, especially, as you astutely point out below, under D'Antoni.

Dalembert will probably join the Heat next year, IMO..

Lol.

Knicks are going to need 3 quality defenders around Anthony and Stoudemire, most importantly, a big C that can defend the post, which is very difficult to find..

I don't really see how they can become a good defensive team, especially with D'Antoni as coach..

I don't know what the Knicks have yet in Fields, from a defensive point of view. He has come in as a surprise rookie, but I think he's been more notable for his ability to score efficiently and doing the little things to help the Knicks. But that doesn't necessarily mean he's been good defensively.

The Knicks do need a big who can run the floor and just be somewhat of a presence defensively without being a huge detriment to what they want to do offensively. Someone like Rasheed Wallace would have been perfect for that team. I don't know if there's a young guy out there available for the Knicks. But if they could get a Dalembert type and get one other versatile perimeter defender, say someone like a Sefolosha (not him specifically but someone like him), then they'd be well on their way to being at least solid defensively, especially for a D'Antoni team.

[Gordon Hayward]

Still here. Just working. I've never had a problem admitting I'm wrong before, either.

Ok. You can go ahead and admit you're wrong now.

[picc84]

I don't really see how you can call Deron "dominant", but put Carmelo at an entirely different level of inferiority..I'm not a fan of Anthony at all, but I can't see how you can make that argument..Deron might be better, but they're certainly on the same level..

I think Deron controls the game from more angles. When Melo is on offensively, he can put up scoring numbers in bunches and destroy teams that way. But Deron can do it scoring-wise while carving the defense with his passing as well. He's not as reliant on his jumper to be "on" as Melo is, as even though Melo is a good passer, he ignores the ability enough that he's pretty close to a one-dimensional scorer type.

I don't think Deron is a LOT better but the difference is clear.

[Cuppycake Gumdrop]

Ok. You can go ahead and admit you're wrong now.

lol now might be the time when Cry Havoc has some more "work" to do.

[JamStone]

I don't put the loss on Melo. I thought he was the shining beacon for Denver in that series.

But Deron outplayed him thoroughly IMO. Especially in the clutch/4th quarter. Part of the reason Boozer was so effective was because Deron was getting him the ball in the right spots and finding him under the rim, like a master surgeon. In fact, thats what Deron was in that series. A surgeon. He made all of his teammates better and scored when he needed to. His brilliance stole homecourt advantage and helped to keep it. Easily did more for the injured Jazz team than Melo did for the Nuggets.

Whether you think Deron destroyed him/them or not, I don't see how its a tough debate as to who is better. Melo is a great player but Deron is a dominating one.

Tbh, I probably wouldn't have responded if you had said "Deron destroyed them" instead of saying he "destroyed him (as in Carmelo)." Your first post did suggest you put the series loss on Melo. And I do think you're placing a lot of that opinion on game 6 instead of looking at what Melo did pretty much the entire series before game 6.

I wouldn't begrudge anyone who thinks Deron Williams is better than Carmelo, as I pointed out in earlier posts that I think they're comparable and I can easily wee someone arguing why Deron is more valuable to his team because of the position he plays and how hard it is to find 20/10 caliber point guards.

But I certainly would argue against someone claiming it's not a tough debate at all. Melo is a top 5 scorer in the league and is probably the most versatile scorer in the league. And as the best player on his team, he's led that team as far as Deron has led his, to a conference finals appearance. If you like Deron better, I can't call it. but it's very much a debatable topic.

[picc84]

Fair enough.

[JamStone]

I think Deron controls the game from more angles. When Melo is on offensively, he can put up scoring numbers in bunches and destroy teams that way. But Deron can do it scoring-wise while carving the defense with his passing as well. He's not as reliant on his jumper to be "on" as Melo is, as even though Melo is a good passer, he ignores the ability enough that he's pretty close to a one-dimensional scorer type.

I don't think Deron is a LOT better but the difference is clear.

Here's a similar comparison.

Would you take Dirk Nowitzki or Steve Nash?

[Cry Havoc]

Tbh, I probably wouldn't have responded if you had said "Deron destroyed them" instead of saying he "destroyed him (as in Carmelo)." Your first post did suggest you put the series loss on Melo. And I do think you're placing a lot of that opinion on game 6 instead of looking at what Melo did pretty much the entire series before game 6.

I wouldn't begrudge anyone who thinks Deron Williams is better than Carmelo, as I pointed out in earlier posts that I think they're comparable and I can easily wee someone arguing why Deron is more valuable to his team because of the position he plays and how hard it is to find 20/10 caliber point guards.

But I certainly would argue against someone claiming it's not a tough debate at all. Melo is a top 5 scorer in the league and is probably the most versatile scorer in the league. And as the best player on his team, he's led that team as far as Deron has led his, to a conference finals appearance. If you like Deron better, I can't call it. but it's very much a debatable topic.

Good post. I never meant to imply that Deron is drastically better than Melo, they're both obviously top tier players in the league. Elite scorers and elite PGs are extremely valuable to their teams, obviously. I just don't see the intensity from Melo on the defensive side of things that's going to catapult him into the next echelon of greatness. I don't think he really cares enough about defense to become a legitimate stopper, or even an above average player.

[djohn2oo8]

Nets pick going to utah is unprotected. And LOL at D-Will learning that he had been traded only through watching sportscenter

[Cry Havoc]

Here's a similar comparison.

Would you take Dirk Nowitzki or Steve Nash?

Not sure that's a fair comparison. Dirk is clearly better on defense than Nash, who's been a sieve his entire career. Dirk also presents mismatch problems, while Nash doesn't. D-Will and Melo are both problems for the other team because they are larger than average for their position.

[Cry Havoc]

Nets pick going to utah is unprotected. And LOL at D-Will learning that he had been traded only through watching sportscenter

Wow, seriously?

[Warlord23]

Upon further review this is a high-risk, high-reward type move by Prokhorov. He has a year and a half to prove to Deron that the Nets are close to contending. Will he try and lure another big name (maybe Dwight Howard) to Brooklyn? If the new CBA gives him some leverage (franchise tag etc) he could well make a play at a big name and get Deron's buy-in to stay with the Nets.

The other thought that struck me was whether the Knicks are kicking themselves for not going after Deron. A D'Antoni-coached Deron/Amare pick-and-roll would have been something to behold.

[picc84]

Here's a similar comparison.

Would you take Dirk Nowitzki or Steve Nash?

Nash without a moments hesitation.

[djohn2oo8]

Wow, seriously?

Teammates said Nets' Williams had no idea he'd been traded by Jazz. Learned about it via ESPN's "SportsCenter
http://twitter.com/tribjazz

For those of you asking, Nets pick is unprotected this year. Jazz will, for sure, get it.
http://twitter.com/chadfordinsider

Jazz fans already clamoring for Utah to take BYU's Jimmer Fredette in Draft to replace DWill ...

[JamStone]

Good post. I never meant to imply that Deron is drastically better than Melo, they're both obviously top tier players in the league. Elite scorers and elite PGs are extremely valuable to their teams, obviously. I just don't see the intensity from Melo on the defensive side of things that's going to catapult him into the next echelon of greatness. I don't think he really cares enough about defense to become a legitimate stopper, or even an above average player.

Deron's defense isn't bad, but it's not at all notable enough to be the difference between him and Melo.

[JamStone]

Nash without a moments hesitation.

That question is actually easier for me than Deron/Melo.

Ok then I can see why you choose Deron.

For me, I take Dirk over Nash 10 times out of 10 times.

And I take Melo over Deron probably 7 times out of 10 times.

[picc84]

Melo is underrated on defense as well. When motivated he's pretty good, actually. But he's only motivated against Lebron/Kobe/etc.

Which isn't necessarily a terrible thing.

[picc84]

Ok then I can see why you choose Deron.

For me, I take Dirk over Nash 10 times out of 10 times.

Thats pretty crazy.

[Gordon Hayward]

Teammates said Nets' Williams had no idea he'd been traded by Jazz. Learned about it via ESPN's "SportsCenter
http://twitter.com/tribjazz

For those of you asking, Nets pick is unprotected this year. Jazz will, for sure, get it.
http://twitter.com/chadfordinsider

Jazz fans already clamoring for Utah to take BYU's Jimmer Fredette in Draft to replace DWill ...