Grades: Spurs @ Celtics - Apr. 4

[letmk]

I'd rest Tony vs. NO, Tim for the home Utah game and Manu for the road Utah game.

This would be a very good rotating rest for big 3.

[TD 21]

Absolutely hilarious play-by-play.

At this point it's become obvious that Manu needs to be rested in order to really help the team. They should leave him in San Antonio when they go to Utah for the second half of the b2b coming up on Sunday/Monday. That way, he'd have three full days of rest for the Laker game on Wednesday. Probably should leave TD home as well, but I don't know if Timmy would go for that.

I couldn't disagree more. A few weeks ago, fine. Now, not a chance. Ginobili not playing back to backs is nonsense. He doesn't need to be rested, what he needs to be is comfortable playing with tired legs. Because that's how it's going to be in the playoffs. If this team is going to win a championship, they're going to need to push through exhaustion.

He plays in the 20's every game anyway and basically makes a living nowadays being a pick-and-roll maestro and by knocking down outside shots or off of some off ball movement. He doesn't drive much, nor exert a ton of energy defensively. So if he's tired, it's because he's still not in optimal game shape. And if he's not in optimal game shape, then the answer, with so little time left, is to play him more, not less.

The first Lakers game, I want to see the playoff rotation. They'll be coming off a day off and at home. I don't care about the Grizzlies game the day after, they need to focus on putting even more space between them and the Lakers and wrapping up at least the 2nd seed as soon as possible. So if it takes high 30's from Parker, mid 30's from Duncan and Ginobili and around 30 from Splitter, so be it. They need a few games like that down the stretch anyway, to get used to playing playoff minutes.

[Mel_13]

I couldn't disagree more.

We've always disagreed on this subject and I suspect that we will continue to do so. For me, playing 14 games in 21 days is just ridiculous. Players don't need to play in all of those games to be ready for the playoffs.

[therealtruth]

The lack of mental toughness and poise was really disappointing to see. They didn't win this game; they survived it. Three times this season an elite defensive team turned up the pressure, got into the Spurs' jerseys and all three times they folded. The difference between the Heat and Bulls games and this one was, the Celtics don't have the talent that those teams do. They labor to score and are terrible on the glass and ultimately, their inability to rebound is what did them in.

Pop's rotation was atrocious. I'm not sure why he rushed Duncan back in so soon in the 1st half. I thought Splitter was playing Garnett too soft defensively, but he still should have played another 3 or so minutes. I don't care if he might have been winded, he'd have been done for the half after that and would only have been needed for 6-9 minutes in the 2nd half. How do they expect to get him back in game shape by constantly babying him? He's 27, has missed a bunch of games, plays 19 mpg and barring a Duncan injury, won't see a e in minutes in the playoffs. So it's not like they're saving him.

And I've never seen Pop more reluctant to go small. In the end, it payed off, as Bonner his a clutch shot and cleaned the glass, but it hurt them throughout much of the fourth, as Pierce and Pavlovic did their best Parker and Rose impersonation, by blowing by defenders at will. Still, Pop surprised me. I thought he'd be all too pleased to oblige.

The lack of mental toughness comes from Pop. Till he gets it back it won't matter how many RJ's they ship out.

[Stalin]

i like how jackson checked in the first half, and bullied rondo in the post

[maverick1948]

[QUOTE=TheSkeptic;5760787]*sigh*

I've never said that Pop is a bad coach. He's actually one of the best in the business. But that doesn't mean he never makes mistakes.

What I'm saying is that if he doesn't adjust the Spurs are probably not going to win a championship.

I thought that much was obvious after the Memphis series. I gave him the benefit of a doubt then but I personally don't think the same strategy that costed them last season is going to somehow be effective this time around.

Since I'm a fan of the team, however, I'm watching and hoping that I'm wrong. Is that really so hard to understand?


You keep talking about last year. We have a different team this season and Pop has adjusted to playing without Manu. Then adjusted to having no backup PG when Ford got hurt and retired. He has gotten rid of RJ and added SJax to the team. Then Manu returns and he adjusts to that. Splitter in the lineup then out twice and he has to adjust rotations for that. Need I go deeper in the adjustment he has had to deal with to get your attention? He has adjusted almost all season long without putting any player in a position to be over extended at the end of the season.



As for the two highlighted areas, he has and will adjust as necessary. He has done it all season long. If you are a true fan, you would never doubt the coach and his team. You may not like every decision he makes. That is you right but somewhere along the line, you have to acknowledge that you are looking at things thru different glasses than the coach. I have been an NBA fan longer than most on here have been living. I have seen the best in the business coach and play. I saw Russell, Chamberlain, Havelicek, Willis Reed, Magic and Bird, MJ and Scotty as well as David, Tim, Sean and Avery. Coaches like Red Auerbach, Bob Bass and Chuck Daly(who took over a bad Cleveland team, then had 13 winning seasons in row). Just like you I question somethings but in hindsight I see the reasons for the moves the coaches made. This thread was made about the grades for the Boston game. Pop gets a D because a made no serious adjustments in the second half to suit you. He use 9 players who had played together for the entire season plus SJax who knows the system to try and get something going. Defense was there but because we scored only 28 points in the second half, Pop is said not to make adjustments. In the last 6 mins of the 4th quarter, Pop made 7 subs utions looking for the best combination to win. HE FOUND IT. We won the game with the TEAM play.

[Proxy]

Most of you guys act like we lost. Get your head out of your asses. Spurs beat the hottest team in the league (besides themselves) in their house on the second night of a b2b. This Boston team that just beat the Heat by 20 and had 2 days rest.

Offense sucked... Manu sucked... sure, but the team did the one thing every enjoys ing about... they played good defense to give themselves a chance.

And won the damn game.

[analyzed]

I find it interesting that Pop decided to finish with Manu and Tim playing the pick and role with 3 shooters (Bonner, Jackson and Neal) with Kawhi being interchangeble for defensive situations. The line-up obviously did'nt include MVP cadidate Parker. This isn't the 1st time Pop has gone with the line-up in the end game minus TP. I do see the logic however, the line-up really makes teams pay for sending an extra 3rd defender to cover the P & R. with 3 knockdown shooters. In the one play that Parker caught the ball at the wings for an open 3 as result of the P & R, he air balled the 3
Jackson has also proven to be a heck of a defender & playmaker ( i really din't think he was this good, I watched an old tape game of RJ, and the difference is night and day) Jackson is a huge upgrade !

[dylankerouac]

Just finished watching this game after missing it yesterday, recording it, and going all day without Sprustalk or any sports news outlet. Great game. Now to catch up.

[TheSkeptic]

You keep talking about last year. We have a different team this season and Pop has adjusted to playing without Manu. Then adjusted to having no backup PG when Ford got hurt and retired. He has gotten rid of RJ and added SJax to the team. Then Manu returns and he adjusts to that. Splitter in the lineup then out twice and he has to adjust rotations for that. Need I go deeper in the adjustment he has had to deal with to get your attention? He has adjusted almost all season long without putting any player in a position to be over extended at the end of the season.

Calm down.

Like I said, he’s one of the best in the business. It’s not like he’s done *no* coaching/adjustment making. He’s won games while coping with a lot of injuries. I may disagree on the whole business of resting players bit but that’s not a big issue and for the most part he’s done a great job. You’re conflating me with a pure Pop hater which I’m honestly not.

The concern is with the frontcourt as I see it now. That’s it.

Beyond the bigs, he’s gotten pretty much everything right including the development of Kawhi (who I’ve been very impressed with) and the integration of guys like SJax as well as the team’s relative health.
What I’m saying is that it’s getting close to the playoffs and it looks like Bonner/Blair are going to be taking significant minutes. That’s concerning to me.

Duncan + Splitter has the potential to be deadly.

Duncan + Diaw should also be good.

While okay in certain match-ups (Blair) and fine in specific situations (Bonner), they can’t be playing more than the other two. But both Diaw and Splitter need time to get in game shape.

Given the right match-ups the Spurs could get to the Finals doing things as is but they’d get beat by a team like Chicago or Miami. If something changes between now and the playoffs and the shift is made, then I’ll honestly be satisfied with what’s going on. Beyond the bigs, Pop has seriously done pretty much everything right from where I’m standing. It’s just that this *particular* problem is one that has the potential to sink this team out of the playoffs. Other than maybe Jordan's Bulls and almost the Heat, (I don't really count the Pistons...), I haven't seen too many extremely perimeter-oriented teams win it all. That's what it comes down to.

As for the two highlighted areas, he has and will adjust as necessary. He has done it all season long. If you are a true fan, you would never doubt the coach and his team. You may not like every decision he makes.That is you right but somewhere along the line, you have to acknowledge that you are looking at things thru different glasses than the coach. I have been an NBA fan longer than most on here have been living. I have seen the best in the business coach and play. I saw Russell, Chamberlain, Havelicek, Willis Reed, Magic and Bird, MJ and Scotty as well as David, Tim, Sean and Avery. Coaches like Red Auerbach, Bob Bass and Chuck Daly(who took over a bad Cleveland team, then had 13 winning seasons in row). Just like you I question somethings but in hindsight I see the reasons for the moves the coaches made. This thread was made about the grades for the Boston game. Pop gets a D because a made no serious adjustments in the second half to suit you. He use 9 players who had played together for the entire season plus SJax who knows the system to try and get something going. Defense was there but because we scored only 28 points in the second half, Pop is said not to make adjustments. In the last 6 mins of the 4th quarter, Pop made 7 subs utions looking for the best combination to win. HE FOUND IT. We won the game with the TEAM play.

I think that this is a generational difference more than anything, but this is where we disagree though I do appreciate old-school fans.

Philosophically, I think doubting is a good thing. If you live without asking hard questions of the people making decisions on your behalf then, in my opinion, the only thing you'll ever do is exist.

That and while I'll admit I'm not a coach, I *am* a solution-oriented person. I'd likely phrase things more softly in person but when all is said and done I'm a healer. I like to fix things and mull over situations and I think that those of us who are uncomfortable with the rotation are probably more closely aligned that way. While you're obviously wired differently, not bothering to doubt, get nervous, or ask questions, is what I'd do if I didn't care.

Since I'm also a pretty honest person though, if it turns out that Bonner and Blair are the key to winning it all I'd be willing to admit that I was completely wrong on the big rotation. I'm just calling it as I see it *now*.

As for questioning in hindsight, you can speak for yourself. I catch these things in real time because I'm quick like that.

Don't get me wrong, beating Boston took guts and determination after they went cold like that. As an individual game it was a great win and I admit that sometimes I get so focused on the big picture that I forget to slow down and enjoy the good times. Guys like you are great in that regard.

That said, I see and react to trends rather than immediate results which is probably why we're reading this situation so differently. Nothing wrong with that either way since it takes all types.

[TD 21]

We've always disagreed on this subject and I suspect that we will continue to do so. For me, playing 14 games in 21 days is just ridiculous. Players don't need to play in all of those games to be ready for the playoffs.

It is. Which is precisely why I said "They need a few games like that down the stretch anyway, to get used to playing playoff minutes". I never said anything about running them into the ground for every game from here on out. But to go from playing 24-28 mpg to as much as maybe 36 or even 38, in a playoff game (and I mean single game, I'm not talking about averaging that, because we all know that isn't happening), is foolish. They need to be gradually built up.

I liken it to putting a drink in the fridge. It doesn't matter whether you leave it for a day or two days, at a certain point, its as cold as its going to be. The same thing applies here. Playing the big three 35 mpg would be foolish. But if you think going from 31 to 28 makes a difference, well, then you haven't paid attention in the previous two playoffs. Sitting out the odd game might, but being overly cautious with minutes won't.

[Mel_13]

It is. Which is precisely why I said "They need a few games like that down the stretch anyway, to get used to playing playoff minutes". I never said anything about running them into the ground for every game from here on out. But to go from playing 24-28 mpg to as much as maybe 36 or even 38, in a playoff game (and I mean single game, I'm not talking about averaging that, because we all know that isn't happening), is foolish. They need to be gradually built up.

I liken it to putting a drink in the fridge. It doesn't matter whether you leave it for a day or two days, at a certain point, its as cold as its going to be. The same thing applies here. Playing the big three 35 mpg would be foolish. But if you think going from 31 to 28 makes a difference, well, then you haven't paid attention in the previous two playoffs. Sitting out the odd game might, but being overly cautious with minutes won't.

If you go back to my post that you first quoted, you'll see that I suggested holding Manu back from the trip to Utah. I didn't suggest any of the other things in your post above.

[Spursfanfromafar]

I just rewatched the second half. And double rewatched the crunch time. The Spurs played defense brilliantly. Timvp has already written about it, but I can't resist gushing about it again.

Stephen Jackson was superb in the crunch stretch. Blocking even the entry passes and generally timing his help defense to a T. I think that rubbed on the others as well. The only blemish was the Ray Allen 3 pointer and even that featured a illegal screen/blocking foul by Paul Pierce.

The play was very clever, involving Ray Allen coming off a sudden cut, running through to the corner three. Green was keeping close company, when Pierce blocked him with a very moving screen (which was not called) and that enabled Allen to get free and get a catch and shoot quickly.

But the next possessions with the Celtics trying to get either Allen or Pierce free were defended superbly by the Spurs. It was a lesson in sideline defense. Jackson and Leonard in particular were administering quite a strong choke-hold forcing Rondo to call two timeouts.

Jackson is now officially the X factor for the Spurs. If he continues his wonderful blending as he is doing now ..in the playoffs, the Spurs will contend for a le.

[Mel_13]

I just rewatched the second half. And double rewatched the crunch time. The Spurs played defense brilliantly. Timvp has already written about it, but I can't resist gushing about it again.

Stephen Jackson was superb in the crunch stretch. Blocking even the entry passes and generally timing his help defense to a T. I think that rubbed on the others as well. The only blemish was the Ray Allen 3 pointer and even that featured a illegal screen/blocking foul by Paul Pierce.

The play was very clever, involving Ray Allen coming off a sudden cut, running through to the corner three. Green was keeping close company, when Pierce blocked him with a very moving screen (which was not called) and that enabled Allen to get free and get a catch and shoot quickly.

But the next possessions with the Celtics trying to get either Allen or Pierce free were defended superbly by the Spurs. It was a lesson in sideline defense. Jackson and Leonard in particular were administering quite a strong choke-hold forcing Rondo to call two timeouts.

Jackson is now officially the X factor for the Spurs. If he continues his wonderful blending as he is doing now ..in the playoffs, the Spurs will contend for a le.

[Reck]

Duncan + Splitter has the potential to be deadly.

Duncan + Diaw should also be good.

While okay in certain match-ups (Blair) and fine in specific situations (Bonner), they can’t be playing more than the other two. But both Diaw and Splitter need time to get in game shape.

Given the right match-ups the Spurs could get to the Finals doing things as is but they’d get beat by a team like Chicago or Miami. If something changes between now and the playoffs and the shift is made, then I’ll honestly be satisfied with what’s going on. Beyond the bigs, Pop has seriously done pretty much everything right from where I’m standing. It’s just that this *particular* problem is one that has the potential to sink this team out of the playoffs. Other than maybe Jordan's Bulls and almost the Heat, (I don't really count the Pistons...), I haven't seen too many extremely perimeter-oriented teams win it all. That's what it comes down to.

I've said this before, Splitter doesn't have the essentials to be considered a deadly force. Even if you add Duncan in the mix.

It seems to me like Splitter cant handle the ball, has no post movements and reverts to his weak hook shots when trapped instead of passing the ball.

Splitter can be good, but he needs to work on his game. No idea why pop limited his minutes so much last year. That could've served as real-game time practice.

Cant tell you a thing about Diaw. Haven't seen enough of him. He shouldn't be counted upon though. Blair+Bonner is all with have for now.

[Manu-20]

I just rewatched the second half. And double rewatched the crunch time. The Spurs played defense brilliantly. Timvp has already written about it, but I can't resist gushing about it again.

Stephen Jackson was superb in the crunch stretch. Blocking even the entry passes and generally timing his help defense to a T. I think that rubbed on the others as well. The only blemish was the Ray Allen 3 pointer and even that featured a illegal screen/blocking foul by Paul Pierce.

The play was very clever, involving Ray Allen coming off a sudden cut, running through to the corner three. Green was keeping close company, when Pierce blocked him with a very moving screen (which was not called) and that enabled Allen to get free and get a catch and shoot quickly.

But the next possessions with the Celtics trying to get either Allen or Pierce free were defended superbly by the Spurs. It was a lesson in sideline defense. Jackson and Leonard in particular were administering quite a strong choke-hold forcing Rondo to call two timeouts.

Jackson is now officially the X factor for the Spurs. If he continues his wonderful blending as he is doing now ..in the playoffs, the Spurs will contend for a le.

I agree with you on pretty much everything glad to see someone else beside me saw all this with all the complaining some people had after this game bottom line is this game showed the spurs have some mental toughness and can surive some ugly games even with the big three playing bad, also I dont know why people were acting like these type of games never happen in the playoffs when in fact ugly games do happen in the playoffs you cant expect the spurs to be perfect every night executing but its nice to know they can get a W when the excution is not there. Also stephon jackson is huge like you pointed out I loved how he was posting up rondo and making plays on both offense and defense

[Fireball]

Last night Boston was in the same situation as San Antonio the night before. They played away on a b2b, had a 10+ lead and played a terrible third quarter. The difference is that the Spurs still won the game ... but the Celtics lost to the Bulls

[capek]

Most of you guys act like we lost. Get your head out of your asses. Spurs beat the hottest team in the league (besides themselves) in their house on the second night of a b2b. This Boston team that just beat the Heat by 20 and had 2 days rest.

Offense sucked... Manu sucked... sure, but the team did the one thing every enjoys ing about... they played good defense to give themselves a chance.

And won the damn game.

Exactly. Forum filled with a bunch of damned es.

To win it all a team has to pop their cherry for all different varieties of game situations, including really fuggly wins. If our offense turns to for a stretch of a playoff game, personally I'd prefer us not to be virgins about how to come out with a win.

[Paranoid Pop]

Exactly. Forum filled with a bunch of damned es.

To win it all a team has to pop their cherry for all different varieties of game situations, including really fuggly wins. If our offense turns to for a stretch of a playoff game, personally I'd prefer us not to be virgins about how to come out with a win.

They just missed a lot of open shots and a lot of freethrows tbh, like someone said it wasn't that different from the Miami game except the Celtics didn't have a red hot Lebron in the second half. We have zero insurance as to what will happen if a competent defensive team puts any kind of pressure on us.

With our starting 5 it's pretty easy for the opponent to focus on Parker, we don't have a good secondary playmaker (good secondary playmakers for me are SJax and Diaw, Manu can be, to close games but he's better used as a primary playmaker with the second unit).

We also have one of the worst PF rotation in the league in Blair/Bonner who can't defend elite 4s but can easily be defended by elite 3s (Bonner moreso than Blair). Teams that have an elite 3 like Durant or Pierce but a weak frontline can go small without worrying (allows them to get a much stronger five on the floor), teams with an elite 4 can just watch them abuse Blair/Bonner (Dirk, Griffin, Pau Gasol, Zbo, Love and so on).

[Muser]

Most of you guys act like we lost. Get your head out of your asses. Spurs beat the hottest team in the league (besides themselves) in their house on the second night of a b2b. This Boston team that just beat the Heat by 20 and had 2 days rest.

Offense sucked... Manu sucked... sure, but the team did the one thing every enjoys ing about... they played good defense to give themselves a chance.

And won the damn game.

Agreed. Wtf do people want from this team?