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That could lead one to believe it's even more clearly defined than those of others on the team.
Like you said, it's just stating fact. He's been susceptible to these small, nagging injuries his entire career. In a condensed season, he misses more games than in a normal season. When he comes back from missed games, it takes a couple of games to get back to his previous level of conditioning. All this affects the total number of minutes he plays.
Those are just facts.
That could lead one to believe it's even more clearly defined than those of others on the team.
Sure, but they don't necessarily cause him to miss much time so what's the big deal? I'd be more concerned about guys who get whatever type of injury you want to classify (i.e. "nagging" vs "critical") that actually miss several games all the time like Manu. Yet, he continues to play despite conditioning concerns and injury concerns.
Again, I just believe boiled down Pop is not a big fan of what Tiago can do. Do I agree? No, but when approached from that angle I understand and I am not searching for some crazy explanation as to why a top 5 player on the team by all accounts doesn't have more minutes over players that are clearly not as impactful by any metric.
You're making way too much out of a couple of comments made last season, at least one of which may have actual been a compliment.
And yes, how he was utilized last season is completely irrelevant when you have a much larger and more recent sample from which to draw conclusions.
Facts are that this year Tiago didn't miss a game until 31 games into the season (where he only missed a span of 3 games) and he wasn't consistently getting minutes over less productive players.
The nagging injuries have been minor and not a legit concern based on games missed and before the nagging injury excuse became available this year, his minutes were still being debated based on his production.
I know you believe this to be true, but there are plenty of sane people here who believe the opposite.
Ah. Sorry then I read you wrong (my mistake).
1. I didn't like the minute distribution. Once I heard that Tiago had a history with the muscle injuries, I immediately felt like what he needed was to play but not in the 2 shifts/game way that he has been. Shorter shifts would keep him at his most productive and are easier to build on imo.
2. He doesn't come down with extremely serious strains though. That to me suggests that he can be preserved in other ways (Though I know you'll disagree)and MMLH's info indicates that he's also playing in a style that's significantly more demanding than what he did before.
I just don't agree that he had a defined role. The team flourished and Tiago flourished because he's a really good player. But even back then his minutes were being jerked around and it wasn't really until his team realized that giving him the ball made things easier for everyone that they started to do it. Pop still I don't think has fully come around.
Last year he played 63 games including playoffs, which is a bigger sample size. It was just last year, it's not like I'm comparing stats from when he was not with the Spurs.
So they believe it's a nagging injury thing even though Tiago doesn't miss hardly any time due to said injuries? What's does it matter if he gets nagging injuries if they don't cause him to miss significant time this year?
DPG trolling
This is the crux of the issue.
Tiago has had a clearly defined role and has received minutes consistent with role in every game that he was healthy this season up until last night's game.
You're comparing his minutes to other players in other roles.
Tiago has been sharing 48 minutes with TD and garbage time. The other 48 minutes have been shared, until the Diaw signing, between Blair, Bonner, small ball and garbage time.
Really?
You're serious?
If you don't see a huge difference between how he was used last year and how he has been used this season, then we're really not talking about the same subject matter.
That's a complete non-sequitur.
I was talking about your beliefs regarding Pop's estimation of Tiago's talents.
CLE game as well....So now it's not about the injuries since he's healthy, it's about Pop going with other guys and different line ups which is a belief issue, not an injury concern issue.
Either way, people always want to go back and forth (myself included) and really analyze what's going on in all these scenarios (from spending money, to rotations, to strategy). It's fun and a big reason why we all come here. But sometimes, as in the case of re-signing RJ/Bonner & Tiago's minutes, you just have to boil it down when it doesn't make sense.
It was bad business to tie up 50M in players like RJ/Matt & it's bad business to not find a way to play your best players (especially the top 5 on the team).
Will that ultimately derail their shot a le? Not sure, they very well may win it all despite that (just like, even though long odds, they might have won it all with RJ) it doesn't make that decision in a bubble correct.
Yes. I really don't see an issue with "injuries" if they don't cause a guy to miss significant time. Are Manu's injuries more of a concern to you or Tiago's?
You said plenty of people on here disagree as to why Pop doesn't play Tiago more when I think it's a talent evaluation. What would they think it is then?
That's a complete non-sequitur.
I was talking about your beliefs regarding Pop's estimation of Tiago's talents.
I wouldn't necessarily disagree. I just don't see how that works in his role as TD's backup.Ah. Sorry then I read you wrong (my mistake).
1. I didn't like the minute distribution. Once I heard that Tiago had a history with the muscle injuries, I immediately felt like what he needed was to play but not in the 2 shifts/game way that he has been. Shorter shifts would keep him at his most productive and are easier to build on imo.
2. He doesn't come down with extremely serious strains though. That to me suggests that he can be preserved in other ways (Though I know you'll disagree)
We're going to completely disagree on that. I believe that there was an interview posted here (from Brazil, if I remember correctly) in which Tiago expressed satisfaction with his role on this year's team. I don't see how anyone comes to the conclusion that he's been jerked around this season. He knows exactly what is expected from him every game and he's played every game that he's been healthy.
Now last year, he was jerked around. He didn't know if he would play at all, when he would go in if he did play, or what might be expected from him in a given game. This year, he knows that TD will come out in the 1st quarter and the 3rd quarter, and that he will be the center for the rest of those two quarters and several minutes of the 2nd and 4th quarters. I'm not sure how much more clearly defined his role could possibly be.
So Mel, you are saying simply that his role is defined, and that whether or not it's a good role is the debate.
Not true about the Cleveland game. I checked the play-by-play to be certain.
And the RJ stuff has nothing to do with this discussion of this issue. At least, any discussion of this issue that the two of us will ever have.
His role as TD's backup.
I know I definitely haven't been a part of the solution, but there's something relaxing about arguing over Tiago's minutes. It almost wouldn't feel like a proper wrap-up without it.
See, I can believe that Pop was a fan of Tiago in the way he might've liked Oberto. "Blue collar" could be taken as a compliment since this coach is a fan of hard workers and "unskilled" could very well be his own personal assessment. This coupled with minute distribution honestly has me thinking that when he looks at Tiago he sees an upgraded Oberto.
I don't think this is a fair assessment and while the team could make the Finals since the West is wide open like that I have a hard time picturing the Spurs beating a team like Chicago or Miami with this set-up. Even with Tiago it might not be possible but I'd rather go down playing our best players.
Losing with this current rotation would be a really tough pill to swallow tbh.
The CLE game, Tiago played 17 minutes and Tim played 23. Unless I'm missing something that doesn't add up to 48.
The point about RJ wasn't so much about the individual discussion as it was about the general things that go on here that apply to several of the discussions that take place. In this case, despite all the back and forth it really boils down to this: Is Tiago a top 5 player on the team and if he is, are the minutes (despite arguing the merits of a defined role) good for a top 5 player?
The RJ comment was to draw a parallel - people were arguing the merits of the "why" he got paid when in reality all that mattered was it was a bad business move given the known variables. This Tiago situation is similar in that regard depending on your belief in the question above.
That's fine. Is that the proper role and then why when Tim plays 23 minutes (like against CLE) does Tiago get 17 minutes?
Clearly, how Tiago ought to be utilized is a discussion that many people here have great interest in debating. I'm really not one of them.
I responded to your post on a point of fact, not opinion.
I'm perfectly fine with what anyone thinks ought to happen. That's their opinion and they are en led to it. I joined in because you were justifying your opinion by reference to some supposed facts which I don't believe to exist.
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