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Alternative solution to congestion problems: Monster Trucks.
It's funny, when I bring up things to help out college students such as financial aid etc, I get hammered by some of the same people who are sitting here today complaining about having to pay for the roads they use.
Everyday tax dollars by the average person don't add up to what it takes to build these roads. In otherwords, the average person gets more use from the roads than they pay for.
The fact is that there is already bad traffic congestion on many of those roads and that traffic congestion will only get worse without proper planning. Toll roads place the burden of paying for the road and maintenance on the actual users of the road. There really is no fairer way of doing things.
The reason there are so many delays in the construction projects around town is because there is a severe lack of funding. The state simply can't keep pace with the rate of growth in certain places.
I understand that this is going to mean we spend more money at certain times to get certain places. I also understand that sometimes 1 extra dollar a day can mean a lot over the course of time. But you have to take a step back and figure out how the State can manage to actually keep it's head above water financially.
There are going to be alternatives to the Toll Roads. They may not be as conveniant as the Toll Roads are, but nobody ever said convenience was free.
Now, as for the environmental aspect of these projects, there will be more traffic on other roads, and there will be more traffic on those highways. But there will be more traffic with or without toll roads. With the toll roads, there is an opportunity to properly and intelligently manage things to maximize the efficency. Also, in the future we should also see cars that have much better emissions and the like. That is definetly something to consider.
Alternative solution to congestion problems: Monster Trucks.
I pay for the roads I use already in the taxes I pay. I wouldn't mind even paying a slightly higher tax rate than I already do if that's what is needed to keep the city's infrastructure in good condition and able to meet my demands. I DO NOT BELIEVE toll roads are the solution to our problems. This is especially true in areas that don't even have problems that are supposedly fixed by toll roads.
Manny, your logic is tragicly flawed. If I were to take that way of thinking and apply it broadly, then you would see it's short comings. What types of government provided services are currently underfunded? Education? Maybe public schools should start charging to educate each kid by the day? Maybe fire departments should charge you to put out your house when it's on fire by charging per gallon of water used.
I don't see anyone but the rich gaining anything from toll roads. They get private highways to themselves and the less well off get shoved onto the current aging system of roads. The tolls won't be a drop in the bucket to someone earning 6 digits, but to the guy working two jobs to support his family, and extra 60 bucks a month is hard to come up with.
We have to go through all the fun of driving through construction zones and traffic jams just to earn the right to PAY for the use of the road after it's completed in 10 years. Then, even when complete, will these new toll roads be utilized at peak efficiency? NO!
What is the point then?
If only the rich use them, then it will be only the rich paying for them - so what do you care?I don't see anyone but the rich gaining anything from toll roads. They get private highways to themselves and the less well off get shoved onto the current aging system of roads. The tolls won't be a drop in the bucket to someone earning 6 digits, but to the guy working two jobs to support his family, and extra 60 bucks a month is hard to come up with.
Uh...
See inefficiency argument....
See construction headaches....
See enviromental damage......
See doesn't solve current traffic problem....
I think you are overreacting on some of the issues. Just my opinion.
PS: Not the construction one... SA & TX definitely suck in that area
Maybe, but I have seen nothing around here to tell me that.
Umm... the people driving 1604 on a daily basis for work aren't the kind working two jobs and living hand to mouth.
Jesus.
Every single one of your posts.
Uh, it's more than just a toll road to Stone Oak! Look at your own freaking graphics! It's 1604 from almost the entire West to east side. Then it's a proposed section of 35. Do you think that all those people are millionaires that travel there? I don't want to pay it, or live through the construction, and I'm not even living pay check to paycheck.
Well, I'm poor as all , but I'd use a toll road a fair amount of time. All the time? No. But I think you're equating your dislike of toll roads and refusal to use them to everyone who doesn't make six figures not using them.
BTW, if you apply the logic torwards almost everything that is government funded in an appropriate way and implement it correctly, it fits. It is standard capitalism.
Everything besides the Starter System is P-R-O-P-O-S-E-D.
And I'm pretty sure a few millionaires drive on I-35 from 1604 to downtown but then again it doesn't even ing matter because millionaires aren't the only ones going to use the toll roads.
And a lot of out of towners use I-35 from 1604 to Downtown on a daily basis.
And again, you don't want to drive the toll roads, you don't have to! You can drive the roads for free as well.
Not quite sure what you're getting at there.
From the looks of things, I would either have to cough up the toll money daily to get to and from my house, or find some back road route. Either way, it will suck.
You don't even have to make six figures a year to drive the damn things. I make between 25,000 and 30,000 a year and I'd use them.
This was said by Useruser666:
The tolls won't be a drop in the bucket to someone earning 6 digits, but to the guy working two jobs to support his family, and extra 60 bucks a month is hard to come up with.
I'd love to see something like that.
That makes one of us.
Credits? WTF is this? Battlestar Galactica?
well be prepared cause the interchange at 1604/281n starts next year...let the fun begin
That's great then for you. But like I ACTUALLY SAID, there are people who don't have throw away income.
Then we should stop welfare right now. Or medicaid for the poor. Or how about how about we just hve a slight tax increase and build roads that wil be used to their full capacity?
You take out a single section of my argument and rebute that one part. It's not any one thing that makes toll roads in SA a bad idea. It's the total of all of these factors together.
I use 35 from 1604 to 410 on a daily basis. There is hardly a traffic problem there right now. How are tolled lanes going to help that any? Tolled lanes will simply shift some of the cars from one lane onto the remaining lanes, making them more congested while the tolled lane will see less use. Does that make sense? Are they going to construct and upper deck along 35 thrtough that route just for toll lanes? I could see if there was a highway that bypassed SA with ver limited exits that was tolled. Then trucks and tourists that were just passing by could pay to avoid any SA traffic. I understand tolls being placed on bridges or tunnels to help foot the bill for them, but we don't have the same types of structures here.
I have driven the toll roads in Dallas and Houston, and from that I just don't see that fitting here. It's simply a way of government extracting money from us in a different way. This is not the proper solution for building an efficient infrustructure in SA.
toll roads... EVERYONE uses the roads either directly or indirectly... Everyone should help foot the bill
So now you're equating roads with providing food for people?
Right.
Ok, I get it, you hate toll roads. I'll wave to you from them when they're built.
You say it's capatilism, that's not true at all. If it were, we would pay by the number of miles we drive. But guess what, we aren't! I already pay taxes, now I have to also pay to use these new roads or some of the roads I already use? Pffft!!!So now you're equating roads with providing food for people?
Right.
Ok, I get it, you hate toll roads. I'll wave to you from them when they're built.
You'll wave from them only after 5-10 years of construction and hassels. Until then, I'll wave to you sitting next me stuck in toll road construction traffic.
I don't get you Manny. Toll roads seem go against every cause you usually preach about here and yet you support them? Tell me how anything I said is wrong? Or maybe this is you just you wanting to pay your $1.25 and feel superior to the other drivers on the free highways?
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