What does Drew Brees do on a consistent basis that doesn't consist of stat-whoring? His teams missed the playoffs in 3 of his years there, and he's lost to Alex Smith, Rex Grossman, and Matt Hasselbeck (2010 version, not 2005) in the playoffs. I'm not saying Flacco is better than Brees--I just want to know what he does on a consistent basis besides stat-whoring and losing to underwhelming QB's in the playoffs. Also, "good stretch" is disingenuous. It was (tied with 1989 Joe Montana) the GREATEST postseason in NFL history--beating the NFL's 3 best teams in the process. He also killed it last year in the PO too--so he's consistently good in the playoffs (which is all that matters)
Brees has had historically bad defenses tbh. Rodgers is near the top of pretty much all statistical categories and I dont think you or anyone would call him a stat . And Flacco was great, Im not trying to undersell what he did this postseason...but at the same time lets not act like the Flacco we saw this postseason is the Flacco we always see. Noone would question whether he belonged in the elite group if that was the case.
Can't really compare Flacco to Dirk. Flacco was mediocre-good before this season whereas Dirk had actually played well in previous playoffs, won an MVP, and was a 4 time NBA first teamer prior to winning a le.
Flacco had a legit year. Even before the Colts playoff game, I thought the Colts would win it because of Flacco. In reality, what kept the Colts in the game was the Ravens defense. They gave up a ton of yards, the Colts just couldn't convert their drives into points. The Colts gained well over 400 yards of offense and lost. I actually thought the Ravens defense played really bad overall in the postseason. They came up with a few big plays (the Manning OT interception being the biggest) but for as much as the Ravens hang their hat on playing stout D, Joe Flacco won them this Super Bowl by himself. Remember the Manning OT pick doesn't happen because the Broncos win in regulation unless Flacco throws that bomb. He actually scored with less than 1:30 on the clock in BOTH halves of that game. It was a pretty clutch run and if you still hate on Flacco after that, all I can say is haters gonna hate.
Eli Manning does not light up the regular season the way his brother, Brady, Rodgers and Brees do but do you want to face him in the playoffs? Nope. The elite QB's make their money in the playoffs. A quarterback who is consistently elite in both the regular season and playoffs is extremely rare. What you want from your QB is someone who plays their best when the game is on the line.
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Pretty weak argument on your part especially when trying to compare Brees and Flacco.
Is it Brees' fault he plays with a historically bad defense? Last season Brees put up 32 points and almost 500 yards at the best defense in the league before the defense let the team down. If the defense holds on, the Saints probably go to the Super Bowl since they always have success against the Giants. The year before that, Brees puts up 36 at Seattle yet the ty defense let up 41 points. The year before that, Brees beat Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, and Peyton Manning while throwing 9 TDs and 0 picks. Brees isn't gifted with the height of most elite QBs, but he's still elite and he's much better than Flacco. Its not like he plays with an elite o-line, RBs, WRs or defense.
What was elite about Baltimore's defense, O-line, or receivers this year?
Elite = Add them to ANY TEAM (like the Jets or Dolphins) and that team instantly becomes a Super Bowl Contender.
With that definition in mind, my list would be and in no particular order:
1. Rodgers
2. Brady
3. Peyton
4. Big Ben
5. Brees
That's it for now.
Potential Future Elite: Flacco, Ryan, Luck, RGIII, Kaepernick (I'm sure I'm missing a few names)
Baltimore's o-line was very good especially with Mckinnie at LT and Oher at RT, two guys who would easily start on the Saints. Both Boldin and Smith are better than any WRs the Saints have even in the 2009 Super Bowl season. Rice is much better than any of the Saints RBs. I agree the Ravens defense wasn't great this year. Still, better pieces than what Brees has been dealt with the Saints. Brees had better talent around him in San Diego than he's had in NOLA. At least he had Payton who's a much better coach now than he was his first couple of years with the Saints.
That's an interesting take. I don't necessarily disagree, but I'd say Peyton made his money off the regular season.
That was the combo they had for precisely 4 games this season--their playoff run. Imagine what Flacco's stats were had he played that o-line all season? Also, way to sell your entire team up the river to prop up Brees. You act like the Saints weapons are dog , when they have far and away the most talented player on either teams' offense: Jimmy Graham. Saints also had the #1 rushing attack last season iirc, with a bunch of Probowl lineman too. I know Nicks left, but lets try not to act like he's been saddled with crappy offensive personnel. Defense, yes no doubt--Brees has had no help outside of the TO-producing machine in 2009. Brees is better than Flacco, that's not what I'm arguing. I just have issues with idiots (not saying you) who just watched the greatest postseason run in playoff history sticking their noses up at it b/c he didn't throw enough garbage-time TD's in the regular season.
Another thing that's lost in all this is that he was offered 16 million/yr at the beginning of the season (very generous offer at the time), and he told his boss to go himself, and that he'd be back for more.
Saints really had the number one running game last year? Damn
By last year I mean the 2011-12 season.
Peyton made most of his money off MasterCard. But yeah I see your point on him. I think the way NFL is in today's world... lots of media, Fantasy Football, gambling... fans kind of want those stat padding types of players regardless of whether they win championships, because ultimately there's still a load more NFL media for you to digest, and it's not like Peyton Manning losing in the playoffs eliminates you from being able to gamble on the next weekend's games. But my take's more from just a football fan point of view. You want the best out of your QB when the team absolutely has to win, and that's basically what any playoff game is when you boil it down. So, playoff dominance and rings = elite. You can throw 50 TDs and still lose the Super Bowl at 18-0. Stats don't mean .
I know, i figured the panthers were with newton deangelo williams and Stewart or some other team.
Just checked, and you're right. New Orleans was leading the NFL through the first 10 weeks, then Tebow-time, Newton turning into a run-first QB halfway through the year, and others happened. They finished ahead of Baltimore though, and that was basically the point of contention between me and H78. Brees had a better rushing attack.
I dont disagree with that but I was referring more to the whole what have you done for me lately approach alot of people took for Dirk (and are now doing with Flacco). Dirk was suddenly the 2nd best PF of all-time and clearly better than KG even though for much of the 2000s it was all TD and KG as 1a and 1b when it came to the best PFs in the game.
Exactly, thats why those who do that are in a tier of their own. It makes no sense to give Flacco the same distinction as guys who put up monster numbers AND have won it all. Rodgers, Peyton, Brady, and Brees are at the top for me. Then its Big Ben and Eli because theyve won it all multiple times. Then its Flacco.
Tony Romo, Jason Street, Johnny Football, and Matt Saracen.
saying Matt "I am a playoff choker" Ryan could be elite and not even mentioning Eli Manning in any way
I like Tom Braydy he mah best friend. He throws me lots of passes even whens i aint open! It sure is fun even if i drop a lot of em, except his high-falutin wife always be yellin at me when i drops sum.
Eli doesn't meet my personal definition of elite. You can't add Eli to any team. Lots of QBs could have won with those Giants teams. Best D-Line I've ever seen.
Eli with the Jets would approach 50 ints.
Ryan is a potential elite, but not there yet. Lets see what his 4th year brings.
Matt Ryan is going into his sixth year.
lol the steelers havent been a super bowl contender since they got raped by Green Bay
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