I don't know how anyone who hasn't played against both Vick and Young can assess which of the two is "harder to tackle." There are so many variables that go into whether a runner is elusive or powerful or whatever other means he uses to avoid tackles.
Is Vince Young more difficult to stand up and push backwards? Probably.
Is Vince Young more difficult to catch on the edge? I doubt it.
Does Vince Young break more tackles? Probably.
Does Vince Young have to break more tackles? I'd think so.
Why, you ask?
As Lee Corso might say, not so fast my friend.
If we're talking about 40 times, the fastest confirmed time for Vick appears to be the 4.25 reported here. There are those who've reported that Vick has run sub-4.2, though.
I've looked all over for a 40 time on Vince. I found one source that said 4.5 and another that said 4.4, but I couldn't find anything to say that Vince has run sub-4.4, much less sub-4.3.
If you can do ent a better time for Young, I'm listenting. Until then, Vick is faster.
Now, the difference over .1 is rougly about 2/10 of a yard, or about 7.2 inches. It doesn't sound like much, but if you take the best time for Vince Young (4.4) and compare it with the best time by Mike Vick, Vick wins by at least .15, or somewhere around a foot. If football is a game of inches, that foot makes all the difference in the world, particularly with a guy who can shake down people the way Vick can.
And, again, why isn't Tommie Frazier better than either of these guys?
Im speaking from seeing them both play many times
vick can be caught by fast nfl linebackers and nearly all secondary players
vince doesnt even need to use his speed until hes breaking for the endzone
vick played for a national le his soph year?
how many games did he lose that year?
career win %?
oh.
I have no idea how you can possibly watch games and see that Vick can be caught by LBs and DBs. The dude broke off a 60+ yard run in overtime in Minnesota a couple of years ago. He ran crazy against the Rams defense in this year's playoffs. And he did that while being instructed to stay in the pocket more (and I'm sure, being told to run out of bounds more).
Aside from that, let's emphasize some key words in that sentence "vick can be caught by fast nfl linebackers and nearly all secondary players."
Maybe that's because he's playing in the NFL!! I wonder how many of linebackers in the Big XII during Vince Young's career will be playing on a full-time basis in the NFL for any team. The answer is: not many.
I guess that explains why Vince Young scored everytime he ran the ball last season.
In fact, it probably explains why Vick averaged 7.5 yards per carry in the NFL last season while Vince Young averaged 6.5 (and 7.1 yards per carry if you don't subtract out his losses)
stats my brother
if you go by avg than Ramonce Taylor should have won the Hiesman last year
vick gets tackled and vince gets tackled
the nfl is different so lets look at their first two years in college (vince has has 1 full year as starter)
stats go to vince
the D in 2000 big east isnt the D in 04 big12
unless they played miami 10 times
exactlyyy
people forget that vick played in that lame ass wannabe conference
we're talking big twelve defense here people...oklahoma, a&m, etc
these teams are scoffable, but still they're legit, they're big 12
and vince young is just now going to be a junior
Vince Young is defintely a great running QB but I don't know about ever. We'll have to see but I think he surely can, he is amazing when he runs it.
Vince Young is a good running QB.. but Notre Dame had a good running QB t... Carlyle Holiday... but they moved him to wide reciever.. which is really stupid..
Michael Vick is now playing in the Lame ass league called the NFL, and he is doing the same things he did in college. Vince Young won't even be a Q.B. in the N.F.L. so we won't know how good he really is.exactlyyy
people forget that vick played in that lame ass wannabe conference
we're talking big twelve defense here people...oklahoma, a&m, etc
these teams are scoffable, but still they're legit, they're big 12
and vince young is just now going to be a junior
So Vick sucks because NFL players can catch him?Im speaking from seeing them both play many times
vick can be caught by fast nfl linebackers and nearly all secondary players
vince doesnt even need to use his speed until hes breaking for the endzone
Dude, way to own yourself. , I've seen plenty of people (I'm not talking about the Baylors and Directional State U) catch Vince.
Vince doesn't need to use his speed until he breaks to the end zone? , I've seen him run for his life enough times, especially against OU, to know that you're full of .
Look, the guy is quick. I'll give you that. But you prove how far you have your head up the ass of anything orange when you say Vince is better because you've seen them both play several times.
Vick is statistically better against NFL players than Vince is against college football players, and don't even get me started on the wounded duck that you call a Vince Young pass.
For what it's worth:
Vick was 22-2 at Virginia Tech. His career winning percentage in college was, therefore, .917.
He played for a national le as a redshirt freshman.
His team was 11-1 in his sop re season, losing only at Miami (in a game in which Vick played less than 20 plays because of a high ankle sprain).
Just want to be sure the record is clear . . . .
While waiting for the mookie response to what looks to be a slap down from FWD... I will defend the premise that Young is harder to tackle than Vick.
Obviously, this kind of thing is a subjective debate, but I base the opinion on college games I've seen between the two of them. Vince Young has an uncanny ability to break tackles, and that cannot be denied. So could Vick... but in my opinion not like young. The only recent guys who I've seen break tackles like Young are Peterson, Ronnie Brown, and maybe Eric Shelton from Louisville.
I think Young would make a great WR for that reason. But you can't expect to be an NFL QB if you can't throw... and like I've said... Vince makes Quincy Carter look like Brett Favre.
And, for the record - so that mookie doesn't have to bother with research and can concentrate on his reply... Young career record is 21-4, which of course would be worse than Vick's.
Dude, Vick was going human joystick on the FSU defense in that national le game, he just didn't have the defense to back him up.I will defend the premise that Young is harder to tackle than Vick.
Obviously, this kind of thing is a subjective debate, but I base the opinion on college games I've seen between the two of them. Vince Young has an uncanny ability to break tackles, and that cannot be denied. So could Vick... but in my opinion not like young.
No disagreement there.
That was a good year for bowl games. The Michigan /labama game was a classic. Even though FSU win was entertaining because of Vick. IIRC, the Citrus and Outback were good ones that year too.
Last edited by scott; 07-21-2005 at 11:18 PM.
Nobody seems to mention that Vick left after 2 yrs of college & still hasn't won the Super Bowl. Unk if VY would do anything better but NO ONE knows this, if they did they'd be buying lottery tickets.
From what I've read Vick is 3 yrs older than VY. I don't know who will be better when their NFL careers are all done, but once again I'd be buying lottery tickets if I could tell the future. Vick is the most hyped to this point & still only 25yo.
So, a good question might be.."What would VY have accomplished after 3-4 yrs in the NFL in comparision to Vick?" Nobody knows this..nobody.
Everyone needs to remember that Vince Young plays at Texas, so that automatically makes him a legend.
Did Vick play at Texas? Hmmmm. Hmmmm.
Great point . . . . except that Vick (4.25) is faster than any time that Young has ever run.
Mr. Dio, that's definitely true. But here's what we do know about Vick -- the year after he was drafted (2002, his first year as a full-time starter) by a team that was bad enough to have the #1 overall pick, Vick lead that team to a playoff victory in Lambeau Field (the first visiting QB to ever do that). He missed most of 2003 with a broken leg, but came back in 2004 and lead the Falcons to the 2nd best record in the NFC and within 1 game of the Super Bowl. So, in his first 2 seasons as the starter, Vick has made the playoffs twice, has won 2 playoff games, and has come very close to the Super Bowl.
Who knows what Vince Young's future holds? But that's not the question here. The question is who is the greatest running QB in history. While mookie and the gang keep changing the criteria (and ignoring facts), I'd argue that Vick owns Young in every conceivable comparison other than the fact that Young is bigger. BFD, Culpepper is bigger than both of them and that doesn't make him the greatest running QB ever.
I'm not too worried about Mike Vick's failure to win a Super Bowl yet -- Vince Young still hasn't beaten Oklahoma.
I said it earlier in this thread, but if Vince Young was the quarterback at the University of Washington, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
First off, I would put Tommie Frazier and Michael Vick WAY WAY ahead of Vince Young. He could pass up Vick this year with a Ntl Championship, however, never would be be able to top Frazier
I've been banging the Tommie Frazier drum around here for weeks, but the Orangebloods don't want any part of Frazier in this discussion. If I was going to run an offense that relied on a QB running the ball in any part, I'd struggle to choose between Frazier and Vick. I would probably end up with Vick, because he's got a much better arm than Frazier ever did. But in the college game, there's never been anyone like Frazier.
not having gone to UT, I am not an "orangeblood" but as a fan I would agree that the sky is the limit for Young. Throwing the ball is not his problem, its throwing it accurately. He can wing it down the field but because of his wacked-out throwing style, its not very reliable. As a pure runner, he is the best at the QB position I have ever seen but as far as where his place in college football is, we still need to wait and see. Good point about Frazier though. I really think if he was healthy he could have done well in the NFL.
I can't see Young playing quarterback beyond his days at UT -- he's much more like Antwaan Randle-El than Mike Vick. And I still don't see how he's the greatest running QB anyone has ever seen, particularly as long as Vick and Frazier (not to mention Eric Crouch, Turner Gill, Jameille Holloway, and guys like that) are in the conversation.
Frankly, I don't think Young reads defenses very well, I don't think he can be relied upon to stand in the pocket and find an open man, and I don't think he is comfortable when he has to throw the ball. I don't care if the guy can throw it 800 yards, I don't want him playing QB for me if he can't get the ball where it needs to be, and if he compromises the integrity of my offense by refusing to stick with plays.
It works, for now, against college defenses, but Young to me is a mirror image of the team he plays for. UT wins games not because it has great schemes (and not even because they try to out-scheme opponents) but because it has great athletes, but that doesn't make them a great team. (unlike, say, USC or Oklahoma, which have great talent, but play for les because they use the scheme to maximize that talent and to make inferior players seem better than they are).
Young is successful now because he's a great athlete, but that doesn't make him a great QB.
I never said he was the greatest running QB...I said he was the best pure runner at that position I have seen. His passing ability is suspect at best. To be the "greatest" at a position, you must master all phases of that position...so far he has not. I also do not see him as a QB in the NFL, the CFL maybe. My point is that he has had one full year at the position and some people are already dropping the G.O.A.T card. It is wayyy to early for any of that talk. He has won a major bowl game but not a conference le or national le....( , he hasn't beaten OU yet!) If he can do that (the les) its one thing, so far all he is, is a good college QB.
I can send you some links to study so you can get the answer to that question & to the question..Does VY play at VTech? Hmmmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmmmmmmDid Vick play at Texas? Hmmmm. Hmmmm
True, so of these 2 QBs we have (0) Nat'l Chamoionships..Correct?I'm not too worried about Mike Vick's failure to win a Super Bowl yet -- Vince Young still hasn't beaten Oklahoma.
Well, of course you know I disagree but we'll have to wait til VY has at least 2 yrs in the NFL before we can compare the 2 a little more accurately.I can't see Young playing quarterback beyond his days at UT
As long as we're speaking of running QBs I'd like to toss, for kicks, Young's name in as a top 3 running QB. Steve Young.
i already said ill now only compare the first two years of college
lets do it
its funny bc if the stats were even close some chode would have listed them
Why isn't Young in the pros? If he was the second coming, you'd think he'd be there already.
Hmmmm.
well
he has to improve his passing marcus
to be a qb
lol
i didnt compare him to marino or manning
just vick
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