Duncan: I have 2 more good years left.

[cd021]

Not so. The whole point is to come to an arrangement with Tim/Manu, get their blessing for what they are happy with and go from there. Their cap holds don't matter because if they are willing to take the Room Exception/Minimum we don't need their Bird Rights so we waive their cap holds.

In fact, regardless of what happens in each of the three scenarios I presented we can waive their cap holds. We'll either have the cap space to bring them back or exceptions after signing a free agent if they are willing to take the tiny exceptions. Again, signing them to cheap exceptions would only be done with their blessing.

The main stumbling block is actually Danny. Let's say Timmy/Manu were unwilling to take the Room Exception and Minimum respectively ($2.5m/$1.5m) but Manu was willing to take the Room and Timmy wanted $7m-ish. We would be left with a decision to either chase a max free agent or bring back Danny and chase a mid-tier player with around $10m in cap. I see no reason why Danny would be willing to wait around as a free agent unless he got a cast iron guarantee he would be re-signed, which would be impossible if we wanted Gasol. Therefore we'd have to choose between chasing a big name or bringing back Green.

To bring back the same group AND add a max guy would require Tim/Manu taking tiny deals for their final year, perhaps unlikely but that's why you ensure you speak to them first and get an agreement on how little they'd be willing to play for. If $2.5m and the minimum is too little, which is absolutely might be, we choose between chasing a free agent and possibly losing Green.

I'm pretty sure the room exception is for teams who are under the cap for a full season. For example the Rockets ( or it may have been the Mavs) used the room exception this past off season. The Spurs have the MLE and LLE to work with if they don't use the cap space. We can bring over LJC without using either and if he's ready bring over Bertans using the LLE.

I really don't see how the Spurs can get to a $20 million dollar cap slot without gutting the team (9 free agents with only KL & Green returning). I think the Spurs would be better off focusing on someone like Paul Milsap who should be closer to the $ 12 million range. If they use Green and Leonard cap hold, bring over LJC then they would have around $62.5 million to 9 players & 10 players if they use their 1st rounder for $62.7 million.

If the cap jumps to $70 million next season, then they could have around $7.3 million remaining if they renounce the other 7 FAs (assuming Duncan and Manu retires) maybe some one like Demarre Carol as a combo forward. There are a ton of PF-Cs (roughly 20 currently projected to go in the first round) in the draft I'll assume that if they take someone it would be a big and that he would be available to play next season. The Spurs would need a backup 2 guard Belinelli could be a candidate to return to fill that spot.

Parker-Mills
Green-Belinelli
Leonard-Carrol-Anderson
Milsap-Diaw-Carol-LJC
Splitter-1st Rounder/FA

Alot of guess work but that would be another route. Go after a player below the max and try to fill out the roster with the extra cap.

[Richie]

I think room exception/minimum is a pipe dream, and frankly insulting. After DRob in 2001, who threatened to sign an MLE deal with the NYK after such a proposal, I think it would even be a non-starter with the Spurs themselves.

Pipe dream is a little strong, but I agree it's unlikely. However you can at least float the idea, if either one turns it down then you move on and work on other options. They are grown men, they won't get their feelings hurt just by giving them the option.

[exstatic]

Pipe dream is a little strong, but I agree it's unlikely. However you can at least float the idea, if either one turns it down then you move on and work on other options. They are grown men, they won't get their feelings hurt just by giving them the option.

David Robinson, the ultimate company man, got his feelings hurt in just that way.

I think you have Tim and Manu at about all the discount you're going to get.

[cd021]

If TD/Manu decide to come back for one more year... you pay them for what they are worth. Period. TD is still among the big men elite, while Manu is still great for the Spurs system. If they can come back for collectively less than $10 million it would be a fair number (although still less than their performance value).

That would be a good price for both and would allow the Spurs to have $6-10 million in cap if they renounce everyone save for Green and Leonard. Or they could keep Cojo (maybe try to flip Mills or Cojo next season or even attempt to play them together as the backup 1 & 2). The could also use the MLE and LLE along with bringing over Livio

[Richie]

I'm pretty sure the room exception is for teams who are under the cap for a full season. For example the Rockets ( or it may have been the Mavs) used the room exception this past off season. The Spurs have the MLE and LLE to work with if they don't use the cap space. We can bring over LJC without using either and if he's ready bring over Bertans using the LLE.

The Room exception is what you get when you renounce all your other exceptions in order to use cap space.

I really don't see how the Spurs can get to a $20 million dollar cap slot without gutting the team (9 free agents with only KL & Green returning). I think the Spurs would be better off focusing on someone like Paul Milsap who should be closer to the $ 12 million range. If they use Green and Leonard cap hold, bring over LJC then they would have around $62.5 million to 9 players & 10 players if they use their 1st rounder for $62.7 million.

If the cap jumps to $70 million next season, then they could have around $7.3 million remaining if they renounce the other 7 FAs (assuming Duncan and Manu retires) maybe some one like Demarre Carol as a combo forward. There are a ton of PF-Cs (roughly 20 currently projected to go in the first round) in the draft I'll assume that if they take someone it would be a big and that he would be available to play next season. The Spurs would need a backup 2 guard Belinelli could be a candidate to return to fill that spot.

I don't think you've got your maths right. Everyone with a guaranteed contract coming back, plus Kawhi and Green cap holds (assuming Timmy and Manu retire) put us at $49m. Even if we include Jean-Charles and another mid 20s draft pick, that we'd only be around $51m with 9 players. Include a couple of roster spot holds and a $70m cap we're looking at $18m in cap room, enough to offer a free agent an $80m/4yr deal.

Remember Gasol will only be an 8 year pro so he only qualifies for the 30% max rather than 35% which will be around $20m (it's actually slightly less than 30% of the cap figure).

[exstatic]

That would be a good price for both and would allow the Spurs to have $6-10 million in cap if they renounce everyone save for Green and Leonard. Or they could keep Cojo (maybe try to flip Mills or Cojo next season or even attempt to play them together as the backup 1 & 2). The could also use the MLE and LLE along with bringing over Livio

You lose the MLE and LLE if you go 6-10M under the cap. You might as well not even do it, bring most of the band back, use the MLE and punt until 2017.

[Richie]

David Robinson, the ultimate company man, got his feelings hurt in just that way.

I think you have Tim and Manu at about all the discount you're going to get.

Pretty sure he got over it and besides, he was 36 at the time. Timmy and Manu will be 39 and 38 respectively. At the time he had also earnt $10m less than Manu has currently and $137m less than Duncan has.

If by merely suggesting it, alongside a commitment for a blank cheque if they so choose, is enough for them to throw their toys out of the pram then they need to grow up.

[BillMc]

Watching Timmy, he is playing well and the team is successful. I really see no reason for him to want to retire other than if he is somehow bored of the game or wants more time with his kids. He really could play 2 more years....

[cd021]

You lose the MLE and LLE if you go 6-10M under the cap. You might as well not even do it, bring most of the band back, use the MLE and punt until 2017.

I know, I worded that wrong. We could keep Cojo and still use both exceptions or keep Cojo and have some cap space remaining.

[cjw]

The only way I see them signing at a very low contract would be if they win the le this year and want the best chance at a three-peat. Better chance of both hanging it up though and going out on top with a le though.

Luckily free agency allows for some time to maneuver with your own guys before open season for the other 29 teams begins on them. They could have everything done well in advance of Leonard receiving an offer sheet (if he even were to seek one out).

[cd021]

The Room exception is what you get when you renounce all your other exceptions in order to use cap space.



I don't think you've got your maths right. Everyone with a guaranteed contract coming back, plus Kawhi and Green cap holds (assuming Timmy and Manu retire) put us at $49m. Even if we include Jean-Charles and another mid 20s draft pick, that we'd only be around $51m with 9 players. Include a couple of roster spot holds and a $70m cap we're looking at $18m in cap room, enough to offer a free agent an $80m/4yr deal.

Remember Gasol will only be an 8 year pro so he only qualifies for the 30% max rather than 35% which will be around $20m (it's actually slightly less than 30% of the cap figure).

I didn't know that about the room exception, I stand corrected.

My math matches yours. Kawhi +Green + LJC +1st rounder would equal roughly $16.7 million (going off cap holds for Green and KL)


T.P, Splitter, Anderson, Mills and Diaw at $33.6 ( it varies slightly from various sites)

=$50.3

Assuming both Duncan and Manu retire and the Spurs renounce everyone else.

a max offer to L.A or Gasol would push us to almost $70 million. I didn't say we couldn't but it would hurt our depth and our bench wouldn't be particularly good. Diaw, Mills and Anderson are the only known in that situation. If the cap jumps to $70 million the luxury tax should be around $84 million (a guess) add in the other $9 million of Kawhi's salary and that would push our salary up to $79 million with at least 4 roster spots to fill.

I think that targeting Milsap would be a more realistic goal and allow us to field a more balanced team similar to our team now, granted it may not quite have the ceiling the other team would have. The Spurs would have more money to work with going forward in 2016 when the cap could jump to $78 million. We would have our rotation under contract with more money to spend.

[Richie]

a max offer to L.A or Gasol would push us to almost $70 million. I didn't say we couldn't but it would hurt our depth and our bench wouldn't be particularly good. Diaw, Mills and Anderson are the only known in that situation. If the cap jumps to $70 million the luxury tax should be around $84 million (a guess) add in the other $9 million of Kawhi's salary and that would push our salary up to $79 million with at least 4 roster spots to fill.

I think that targeting Milsap would be a more realistic goal and allow us to field a more balanced team similar to our team now, granted it may not quite have the ceiling the other team would have. The Spurs would have more money to work with going forward in 2016 when the cap could jump to $78 million. We would have our rotation under contract with more money to spend.

You might be right about bench depth, but I think Millsap will be getting offers above $12m after his all-star berth last year AND he isn't the defender we need to try and fill Duncans considerable void. If we miss out on Gasol or Aldridge, I'd rather not commit any money for more than 1 year and roll over our cap to the excellent 2016 class. I'd consider overpaying Stoudemire for a single year, say $10m-$12m, who will give us something extra but not tie up cap room long term.

Also, of the bench guys we'd be losing, the only ones who really matter are Joseph and Belinelli. There's a chance we could bring Marco back with the Room exception, but Joseph will likely get more than that in free agency and we'll have to let him walk. The rest of them could probably be bought back with minimum salary deals, but I don't think we need any of the others.

If we can get Gasol, I think we have to just go for it and worry about the rest later. He's 29 but doesn't have the kind of NBA mileage that most do at that age, he's the same age as Lebron but has played 24,000 fewer minutes in the regular season and playoffs combined.

[Mel_13]

You might be right about bench depth, but I think Millsap will be getting offers above $12m after his all-star berth last year AND he isn't the defender we need to try and fill Duncans considerable void. If we miss out on Gasol or Aldridge, I'd rather not commit any money for more than 1 year and roll over our cap to the excellent 2016 class. I'd consider overpaying Stoudemire for a single year, say $10m-$12m, who will give us something extra but not tie up cap room long term.

If they don't sign a major free agent in 2015, then they'll have to wait for 2017. That assumes, which I do, that Leonard and Green will be brought back on market value deals.

[Chinook]

a max offer to L.A or Gasol would push us to almost $70 million. I didn't say we couldn't but it would hurt our depth and our bench wouldn't be particularly good. Diaw, Mills and Anderson are the only known in that situation. If the cap jumps to $70 million the luxury tax should be around $84 million (a guess) add in the other $9 million of Kawhi's salary and that would push our salary up to $79 million with at least 4 roster spots to fill.

That's really not all that grave of a situation, seeing as the team would have filled their top 10 spots. We'd be talking about bringing some prospects over and maybe one room-exception guy. The real issue is hoping the cap increases enough in 2016 to accommodate the growing salaries.

I think that targeting Milsap would be a more realistic goal and allow us to field a more balanced team similar to our team now, granted it may not quite have the ceiling the other team would have. The Spurs would have more money to work with going forward in 2016 when the cap could jump to $78 million. We would have our rotation under contract with more money to spend.

I like the idea of having a scoring PF over a center, so Millsap for cheap would be preferable to Gasol for the max in my opinion. But I'd probably want to go a little cheaper if I were the team, something under $10 Million for the first year. The only reason to not hand out a max deal is to allow for two mid-sized deals.

[look_at_g_shred]

I think it's true. A barista at Starbucks told me Tim came in and he asked him how much longer he would play. Tim said "I shouldn't say but I'll have TWO venti skinny strawberries and cream Frappuccino's".

[Horse]

Timmy can play till he gets Alzheimer's, he hasn't relied on athletic ability in many years but he's probly the smartest player in the history of the nba.

[milkyway21]

2 more years??

Watch out those all-time records

[Blizzardwizard]

2 more years??

Watch out those all-time records

[007nites]

Timmy will play till 42 and he will still be posting double-doubles in 20 mins of PT.

[cd021]

That's really not all that grave of a situation, seeing as the team would have filled their top 10 spots. We'd be talking about bringing some prospects over and maybe one room-exception guy. The real issue is hoping the cap increases enough in 2016 to accommodate the growing salaries.

Not as familiar with the room exception. So if the cap is $70 million and roster in my Gasol/Adridge scenario comes to 10 players, $69.3 million, the Spurs could use the room exception to sign a player for $2 million? Then they could use bird rights on Green and Leonard. That would give the Spurs 11 players at around $80.3 million. They could fit a vet min or two and a min deal. Though Greens first year of his deal could be more than his $ 7.6 million cap hold. I'd still be worried about depth with that squad though.

I like the idea of having a scoring PF over a center, so Millsap for cheap would be preferable to Gasol for the max in my opinion. But I'd probably want to go a little cheaper if I were the team, something under $10 Million for the first year. The only reason to not hand out a max deal is to allow for two mid-sized deals.

I went in the $12 million range because of the increasing cap and Milsap almost certainly getting a significant raise because there are going to be a probably more than dozen teams with enough cap space to sign him. Then again he could sign a short term deal, but I would assume it would be for more than the 2 years, $18 million deal he signed with Atlanta.

I think he could be a very nice fit and with Diaw backing him up and LJC learning behind them.

[100%duncan]

TBH if we repeat, I see Tim and Manu retiring on top. Although as we know both have compe ive natures so they might go for that 3peat...

[scanry]

The only way I see them signing at a very low contract would be if they win the le this year and want the best chance at a three-peat. Better chance of both hanging it up though and going out on top with a le though.

Luckily free agency allows for some time to maneuver with your own guys before open season for the other 29 teams begins on them. They could have everything done well in advance of Leonard receiving an offer sheet (if he even were to seek one out).

I think you meant signing an offer sheet. Leonard can get 10 offer sheets for all he could care, but the Spurs would only have to match the one offer sheet he signs (within 3 days btw).

I think RC & Pop would've explained to Kawhi why it would be better if they sign him after resigning Danny, Tim & Manu next Summer. If Kawhi delivers this season, he's getting the 5 yr max tbh.

[exstatic]

2 more years??

Watch out those all-time records

If you look at the date of the thread and the quote, it was during the playoffs. This is year one, so at this point, ONE more season.

[spurspokesman]

Im happy to have him as long as he wants to lace em up.

[cjw]

I think you meant signing an offer sheet.

Exactly. Too lazy to change go change it when posting from my phone. The Parsons type threat is overblown because I imagine Parsons felt slighted in some way leading him to evaluate the Cuban offer. Kawhi understands this is his franchise - #2 is already guaranteed to never be worn again after him - and offers him the best basketball situation and most lucrative situation financially.