Can Kyle Anderson replace Manu?

[Chinook]

I don't see it. Long term, if he's as good as advertised, he'll be too expensive to keep as a bench player. The ugly flipside would be that he's not that good. IMO, you can't think in terms of Manu's selflessness (great players sticking around willingly embracing a 6th man role at the sunrise of their careers). Even Manu was a starter at the apex of his NBA career, and 9.9/10 players would've bolted if they were sent to the bench playing at that level. What's more normal is for players to embrace those roles in the downside of their careers (Jamal Crawford, Mo Williams, etc).

I expect the Spurs to start developing him this season at the position they want him to play long term. Right now, I'm leaning front court, backing up Kawhi and Diaw.

So you think he'll be a backup as well? The Spurs should have plenty of money in 2018 and no one to spend it on. If Anderson is good, they'll match whatever offer he gets. But Kyle isn't likely to start any time soon. Kawhi's the three, and the team will sign a four to a big deal as soon as Tim hangs them up. The only possible spot for Anderson would be the starting two. But then TD21's defensive concerns would be valid, especially since Kawhi is not a complete defender himself.

I don't think Anderson will ever start with the Spurs. Jean-Charles has a better chance than Kyle does, in my opinion.

[spurraider21]

since nono and chinook are going at it, i thought we could shift the topic to closing out 3 point shooters

[ElNono]

So you think he'll be a backup as well? The Spurs should have plenty of money in 2018 and no one to spend it on. If Anderson is good, they'll match whatever offer he gets. But Kyle isn't likely to start any time soon. Kawhi's the three, and the team will sign a four to a big deal as soon as Tim hangs them up. The only possible spot for Anderson would be the starting two. But then TD21's defensive concerns would be valid, especially since Kawhi is not a complete defender himself.

I don't think Anderson will ever start with the Spurs. Jean-Charles has a better chance than Kyle does, in my opinion.

I think they'll be developing him with the idea of becoming starting material. I also think it's likely going to take 3-5 seasons for him to get there, if he can actually get there. With 3 seasons under his belt, the Spurs should have a clear idea what his ceiling is going to be, and act accordingly. It's difficult to look 3-5 years down the road, tbh... I'm not sold the Spurs can keep all the talent on the team, so opportunities will certainly be there.

[ElNono]

since nono and chinook are going at it, i thought we could shift the topic to closing out 3 point shooters

we're not "going at it"... just a friendly chatter, per par..

As far as the topic you brought up, run to the chest, you can't go wrong with that one.

[exstatic]

So you think he'll be a backup as well? The Spurs should have plenty of money in 2018 and no one to spend it on. If Anderson is good, they'll match whatever offer he gets. But Kyle isn't likely to start any time soon. Kawhi's the three, and the team will sign a four to a big deal as soon as Tim hangs them up. The only possible spot for Anderson would be the starting two. But then TD21's defensive concerns would be valid, especially since Kawhi is not a complete defender himself.

I don't think Anderson will ever start with the Spurs. Jean-Charles has a better chance than Kyle does, in my opinion.

If you have a bad defender, wouldn't you rather hide him among good defenders? The Spurs best 3 defenders (Tim, Green Kawhi) all live in the starting unit. The ball also has a tendency to "stick" more with that group, which is why Diaw started against Miami.

I've been saying since day one that with his size, shooting, and rebounding abililty, his utimate position will be stretch 4. Most other stretch 4s are just shooters, and not penetrators, Kyle's real defensive weakness. I think once Tim leaves, Tiago is your rim protector, and you hide Kyle on defense as a 4, and he plays the Diaw "unstick" role.

[Spursfanfromafar]

If you have a bad defender, wouldn't you rather hide him among good defenders? The Spurs best 3 defenders (Tim, Green Kawhi) all live in the starting unit. The ball also has a tendency to "stick" more with that group, which is why Diaw started against Miami.

I've been saying since day one that with his size, shooting, and rebounding abililty, his utimate position will be stretch 4. Most other stretch 4s are just shooters, and not penetrators, Kyle's real defensive weakness. I think once Tim leaves, Tiago is your rim protector, and you hide Kyle on defense as a 4, and he plays the Diaw "unstick" role.

I think Kyle will be an ideal 6th man. Wouldn't need to expend much on defense against bad second teams and would be a killer with his passing ability and helping his coach come up with disruptive mismatch based rotations. As 6th man, he will be an ideal 3, a point forward. Sometimes, it is just enough to keep it simple. Anderson doesn't have a post game to play as a 4, nor does he have the strength to be a post defender (as yet). He can be an average 3 and a SF defender who can hide when required and play well as a perimeter oriented point forward.

[TD 21]

Anderson is a guard offensively. The Spurs will have plenty of forwards next season. So it's not really shoehorning him into anything. If he can defend the two, I am almost certain that's where he's going to play. That's just what his skill-set calls for right now

No question. But to me, in the vast majority of cases, you are what you're best off primarily guarding and for him, that's SF; so it would be shoehorning to attempt to have him defend SG's full time.

LJC and Bertans are about as good of prospects as any of the Spurs have drafted over the past few years with the exception of Leonard. Especially Jean-Charles is up there with Kyle Anderson.

Overall, they're both middling prospects. They've both got a shot at being rotation players down the road, but for a team trying to remain as compe ive as possible, it would be foolish to rely on them in their rookie seasons.

In a normal year, the Spurs would almost certainly spend the MLE to get another bench guard. But if next off-season is all about finding a max player to play the four, they won't have the cash to do so. They'll have to rely on their young players to carry their bench.

Millsap is probably the ceiling and he's not getting the max.

Again though, I think you're underselling the odds of both Duncan and Ginobili returning for another season, which obviously changes a lot.

That's stretching it. Players like Green are rare in the NBA. Most legit wings can handle the ball as well as Leonard or Beli can.

I just meant they've basically went with one true SF for a while and played plenty of three guard lineups.

Anderson should be a fine rebounder in the NBA. That's not the question. The question is if LJC's rebounding would be redundant on the bench.

Maybe it somewhat changes when Duncan and Ginobili retire, but the way this team has operated for a long time, they basically have 7 starters and it's constant mixing and matching throughout. Besides, finding a big that's a high level rebounder is far more important than a wing.

[Chinook]

No question. But to me, in the vast majority of cases, you are what you're best off primarily guarding and for him, that's SF; so it would be shoehorning to attempt to have him defend SG's full time.

He doesn't have to defend twos full time anymore than Duncan defends power-forwards full time. Anderson and Jean-Charles could switch off assignments. But it's as I said earlier. There aren't really many bench twos to worry about, especially on contenders.

Overall, they're both middling prospects. They've both got a shot at being rotation players down the road, but for a team trying to remain as compe ive as possible, it would be foolish to rely on them in their rookie seasons.

We're talking about ninth or tenth men here at best. There's nothing wrong with having a rookie in that position. In the post Big Three era, Leonard is almost certain to play more minutes than he is currently. So Anderson will get minutes at the two by default. We're simply talking about who will be fourth in line for wing minutes. I honestly think a combo-forward will make more sense than a guard, especially since the Spurs will have a couple sitting on their bench.

Millsap is probably the ceiling and he's not getting the max.

Again though, I think you're underselling the odds of both Duncan and Ginobili returning for another season, which obviously changes a lot.

Not underselling them coming back. It could definitely happen. I just think the odds of it happening are below .500.

There are definitely off-season scenarios in which the Spurs hand out large deals to two or three players rather than to one. I don't see the value in doing so for a wing, however. So we're really talking about scrubs versus unknowns.

I just meant they've basically went with one true SF for a while and played plenty of three guard lineups.

They have done so. That's primarily due to their roster constraints, though. The team simply had more guards than SFs in the past. That won't be the same in upcoming years.

Maybe it somewhat changes when Duncan and Ginobili retire, but the way this team has operated for a long time, they basically have 7 starters and it's constant mixing and matching throughout. Besides, finding a big that's a high level rebounder is far more important than a wing.

Obviously. But they don't have to wing a rebounding wing. They'll already have two. That frees them up to pursue bigs who aren't dominant rebounders, either as starting fours or bench fives. Players like Brook Lopez would benefit from playing spot minutes with Jean-Charles, for example.

[TD 21]

He doesn't have to defend twos full time anymore than Duncan defends power-forwards full time. Anderson and Jean-Charles could switch off assignments. But it's as I said earlier. There aren't really many bench twos to worry about, especially on contenders.

I'm skeptical Jean-Charles can defend SG's, too. Either way, as I said, I suspect they view Jean-Charles as more of a PF on offense. Plus, him next to Anderson would be putting a lot of pressure on Mills to almost singlehandedly provide scoring off the bench.

We're talking about ninth or tenth men here at best. There's nothing wrong with having a rookie in that position.

On most teams that's true, but on this one, the 9th and 10th men matter more than anywhere else. A rookie would be fine, if they were projected to be a immediate rotation player, like Leonard.

Not underselling them coming back. It could definitely happen. I just think the odds of it happening are below .500.

There are definitely off-season scenarios in which the Spurs hand out large deals to two or three players rather than to one. I don't see the value in doing so for a wing, however. So we're really talking about scrubs versus unknowns.

We'll see.

I don't think they'll hand a large deal out to a wing either, which is why I said a Belinelli caliber (or slightly below) player.

Obviously. But they don't have to wing a rebounding wing. They'll already have two. That frees them up to pursue bigs who aren't dominant rebounders, either as starting fours or bench fives. Players like Brook Lopez would benefit from playing spot minutes with Jean-Charles, for example.

They don't have to either way. Leonard is dominant, Green is adequate and Anderson should be, too. Even if you add Jean-Charles, adding a dominant rebounding big becomes no less of a need, since wings can only impact rebounding so much.

[Baam]

Bump, could happen much sooner than we think tbh...

[TheGreatYacht]

Outplaying him already tbh

[ElNono]

There is no "by default". The Spurs listed Anderson as a two-guard for the summer league. That's how they think of him. Sure, they gave him an SF sublisting, but they clearly don't share your opinion.

Looks like he's penned for SF now... yesterday when Danny was pulled early to have a convo with Pop, Belli went in... I suspect he'll be Kawhi's backup if he's not playing for the Toros...

[spurs10]

I'm in the camp he's going to be Kawhi's back-up.

[Chinook]

Looks like he's penned for SF now... yesterday when Danny was pulled early to have a convo with Pop, Belli went in... I suspect he'll be Kawhi's backup if he's not playing for the Toros...

Beli is usually Kawhi's backup, so if he came in for Green, then that would mean that Kyle was the two-guard. He definitely played two-guard for most of the second half.

Anyway, no one was wondering if Anderson was going to play the three this season. Next season, the Spurs will have fewer guards and more forwards. That's why he's in line to play SG in 2015.

[ElNono]

Beli played the 2... he came in for Green because Pop wanted to talk to Danny, then after a couple plays, Danny went back in. Kyle started at the 3 and played there most of the game, IIRC, which is fine, I think he can play that position and he'll get minutes there, as Kawhi does get some solid rest during the season.

As I said earlier, I think the Spurs will try to develop Kyle at the position they would like him to play long-term. Not a classical PF/SF, but like Boris, a player that can move all the way out to the perimeter and stretch the floor.

[Chinook]

Beli played the 2... he came in for Green because Pop wanted to talk to Danny, then after a couple plays, Danny went back in. Kyle started at the 3 and played there most of the game, IIRC, which is fine, I think he can play that position and he'll get minutes there, as Kawhi does get some solid rest during the season.

As I said earlier, I think the Spurs will try to develop Kyle at the position they would like him to play long-term. Not a classical SF, but like Boris, a player that can move all the way out to the perimeter and stretch the floor.

Beli always comes in for Leonard (Manu comes in for Green). You can certainly argue that Kyle played SF (since he guarded threes and not twos for most of the first half). It's just you can't use the Beli sub as evidence, since Beli plays most of his minutes at SF.

What's undeniable is that Anderson is the two when he played next to Daye or JaMychal Green. That happened both when Beli played PG in the third and during the fourth and OT, when Beli sat out.

[ElNono]

Beli always comes in for Leonard (Manu comes in for Green). You can certainly argue that Kyle played SF (since he guarded threes and not twos for most of the first half). It's just you can't use the Beli sub as evidence, since Beli plays most of his minutes at SF.

Manu did come for Green when it was his time to come off the bench. This was prior to that, apparently Pop wanted to talk to Danny about something. It lasted just a few plays (it's the usual Pop pulling a player out for some indications and back in). I thought it was interesting that Beli came in to play at the 2, instead of, say, Daye to play at the 3 and moving Kyle to the 2 spot. As you say, it might not be indicative of anything.

What's undeniable is that Anderson is the two when he played next to Daye or JaMychal Green. That happened both when Beli played PG in the third and during the fourth and OT, when Beli sat out.

Yeah, I don't look too much into scrub time, I suspect JMGreen/Cotton will be waived/sent to the Toros soon. I thought the first half was more indicative given the rotations. Obviously, we're dealing with a few perimeter issues here: Kawhi was out and Patty isn't available. I think Patty being out increases the chances for Marco to play at the 2, which is his natural position. We'll see how the rotations pan out once the season starts.

[spurs10]

Beli always comes in for Leonard (Manu comes in for Green). You can certainly argue that Kyle played SF (since he guarded threes and not twos for most of the first half). It's just you can't use the Beli sub as evidence, since Beli plays most of his minutes at SF. What's undeniable is that Anderson is the two when he played next to Daye or JaMychal Green. That happened both when Beli played PG in the third and during the fourth and OT, when Beli sat out.

Probably will be a mix, but I'm wondering if Kyle wasn't ultimately meant as a 3. I suppose Beli and KA both guard the 3 better than the two, but Danny can't play 48 minutes. Is it likely KA will be the 3rd string 3 behind Beli? Beli is certainly behind Green and Manu at the 2.

[Chinook]

Manu did come for Green when it was his time to come off the bench. This was prior to that, apparently Pop wanted to talk to Danny about something. It lasted just a few plays (it's the usual Pop pulling a player out for some indications and back in). I thought it was interesting that Beli came in to play at the 2, instead of, say, Daye to play at the 3 and moving Kyle to the 2 spot. As you say, it might not be indicative of anything.

C'mon, Nono.

Yeah, I don't look too much into scrub time, I suspect JMGreen/Cotton will be waived/sent to the Toros soon. I thought the first half was more indicative given the rotations. Obviously, we're dealing with a few perimeter issues here: Kawhi was out and Patty isn't available. I think Patty being out increases the chances for Marco to play at the 2, which is his natural position. We'll see how the rotations pan out once the season starts.

Don't disagree, except I think we'll see Cotton and J Green stick around until the bitter end. Cotton, because the team needs PG depth for the pre-season. Green, because he's been the best of the camp contracts. I think the team will want to keep JaMychal around in case something comes up with the reserve bigs.

[Chinook]

Probably will be a mix, but I'm wondering if Kyle wasn't ultimately meant as a 3. I suppose Beli and KA both guard the 3 better than the two, but Danny can't play 48 minutes. Is it likely KA will be the 3rd string 3 behind Beli? Beli is certainly behind Green and Manu at the 2.

I don't think Anderson will have a consistent role this year outside of a long-term injury or a trade. In 2015, the Spurs currently have no SGs signed besides Anderson and only project to re-sign Green with any confidence. They also project to bring in two combo-forwards, so there may not be a ton of incentive to pay for a two-guard. So I think Anderson will play SG for a while. In a few years when Diaw leaves, one of more of new SFs will be in line to play the four, which will open up the three again.

That's why I said that Anderson's long-term future if he stays with the Spurs is as a utility player who plays multiple position. As he gets older, I think he'll be more of a forward and less of a wing, though.

[Baam]

Imo he has it in him to become the starting PG one day.

Playing with Green and KY is the best way to hide him on D, and playing O from the PG position would be the biggest mismatch, it just makes sense...

[spurs10]

I don't think Anderson will have a consistent role this year outside of a long-term injury or a trade. In 2015, the Spurs currently have no SGs signed besides Anderson and only project to re-sign Green with any confidence. They also project to bring in two combo-forwards, so there may not be a ton of incentive to pay for a two-guard. So I think Anderson will play SG for a while. In a few years when Diaw leaves, one of more of new SFs will be in line to play the four, which will open up the three again. That's why I said that Anderson's long-term future if he stays with the Spurs is as a utility player who plays multiple position. As he gets older, I think he'll be more of a forward and less of a wing, though.

Thanks, all makes sense. Thought it was promising for Kyle to see so many minutes and do well. While Patty is out I guess it's possible to keep Kyle and Green.

[ElNono]

C'mon, Nono.

gotta look at the little things... it's all we have to look at right now. We'll know more in about 10 days...

Don't disagree, except I think we'll see Cotton and J Green stick around until the bitter end. Cotton, because the team needs PG depth for the pre-season. Green, because he's been the best of the camp contracts. I think the team will want to keep JaMychal around in case something comes up with the reserve bigs.

I think they're both going to be gone, either waived or to the Toros. I don't see a depth problem at PG, tbh, at least not a problem Cotton can solve. Shorthanded, sure, problem, I don't see it. I like JM's energy, but I get the feeling we're gonna roll with last season's rotation barring any injury.

In 2015, the Spurs currently have no SGs signed besides Anderson and only project to re-sign Green with any confidence.

I would disagree with this. I think Manu will likely be back unless he's hurt a lot this season, and I also think Beli would be willing to come back provided he's offered a reasonable number.

[Chinook]

gotta look at the little things... it's all we have to look at right now. We'll know more in about 10 days...

All right.

I think they're both going to be gone, either waived or to the Toros. I don't see a depth problem at PG, tbh, at least not a problem Cotton can solve. Shorthanded, sure, problem, I don't see it. I like JM's energy, but I get the feeling we're gonna roll with last season's rotation barring any injury.

Yeah, neither is making the team unless someone really wants Ayres in a trade. I think the Spurs will wait until the end of the PS to make the moves, though, especially for Cotton.

I would disagree with this. I think Manu will likely be back unless he's hurt a lot this season, and I also think Beli would be willing to come back provided a reasonable offer.

You keep up with Manu better than I do. But I don't get the feeling he's leaning toward playing another season in the NBA. We'll see. On Marco, I don't think his willingness has anything to do with this. The Spurs shouldn't spend valuable cap space re-signing him unless they strike out in free agency. They already lost their chance at a max slot by reupping Mills. They simple have to get some really good new talent in the off-season if Duncan and Manu sail away.

[ElNono]

You keep up with Manu better than I do. But I don't get the feeling he's leaning toward playing another season in the NBA. We'll see. On Marco, I don't think his willingness has anything to do with this. The Spurs shouldn't spend valuable cap space re-signing him unless they strike out in free agency. They already lost their chance at a max slot by reupping Mills. They simple have to get some really good new talent in the off-season if Duncan and Manu sail away.

Considering his comments, I would say right now Manu is a lock for another season, if the Spurs want him back (which I'm fairly sure they do, for reasons that go beyond basketball). The only thing I can definitely see derailing that is a nagging injury of any kind or TD hanging them up. As far as Marco, I think you're assuming Manu and Tim will be gone, and I'm not sold on that just yet. It will probably largely depend on how this season pans out. The Spurs do have a history of retaining 'corporate-knowledge' players, and Marco fits that criteria (for the right price). I think the Spurs will build around Kawhi anyways (or try), so I don't expect them to go into some sort of quest to try to replace Manu/TD (impossible anyways, IMO), but just try to put together the best team they can around Tony/KL.