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^ sounds good to me
again, there's nothing worse than an epic chokejob.
additionally the confetti, champagne and tape was already being rolled for the Spurs. the same cannot be said in the football game.
let's just agree to disagree
^ sounds good to me
Going through the Jefferson era + Duncan looking done in 11' + finally going to the Finals after 5+ years and LOSING thanks to a miracle shot is way ing worse than a bad play by the coach, and failing to win back-to-back.
You know the Seahawks fans were celebrating already at home and drinking more thinking we have this game won! The ones in the stands probably thought so as well and were ready to go off. Tom Bradys face on the sidelines showed he thought it was over as well, they all were ready to either celebrate or just walk off the field in tears in which it looked like Tom was ready to do and the Pats fans in the stands.again, there's nothing worse than an epic chokejob.
additionally the confetti, champagne and tape was already being rolled for the Spurs. the same cannot be said in the football game.
let's just agree to disagree
The Spurs 6 to me is more like the Packers and Hawks game honestly, a bunch of mistakes and a storm of bad things happening to lose a game in which they had won (The perfect storm they call it). The Spurs and Packers were very similar in their meltdowns at the end of the game, the luck (Onside kick and 2 PT conversion in which looked hopeless to the Spurs missed rebound and the Allen luck three) and the other things that went wrong were just crazy! Those were eerily similar IMO to how they lost, both lost in OT as well after they had a shot to win there.Seattle failed to win back to back as well from it, tell Seattle fans that this one you speak of from the Spurs is way worse and I am sure they will disagree.
There is no time to make a read? What do you think he was doing when he paused that tick when he hit his back foot?
Had he actually thrown it bang bang, Butler cannot get there in time but instead he throws to the slant late when his receivers man is inside of him and driving on the football.
Compounding matters, the ball placement was . It was high and out front when it needed to be a dart right at the breadbasket. You have heard about throwing high into the middle of the field?
Wilson choked.
1. I agree with the poster that said Collinsworth's announcing played a big part in the ballooning of Carroll's criticism
2. It sucks that our generation's coverage of sports is entirely centered around blaming people, rather than giving credit..Browner and Butler both deserve immense credit..they both recognized the offense's play, Browner jammed the receiver at the line, and Butler made a great catch..he could have easily just broken it up, rather than making the great interception, and Seattle still wins the game and nobody is discussing the questionable play call
3. Whether you believe Wilson choked or not, it's still puzzling that he isn't receiving any blame in the era of media coverage where perceived choking is pounced on by everybody
4. Lynch is a sub-50% career runner when he needs 1 yard for the 1st down, and he was 1-5, this season..
Furthermore, during this season, there was 109 passes thrown from the 1-yard line..Wilson's pass was the first that resulted in an interception..
How can you dispute those numbers? The odds of an interception there are virtually 0, so I don't see how Wilson can get a pass for doing something that hadn't been done in 109 attempts this season..
If I really wanted to I could go over the Seahawks last offensive and defensive drives and comment to colossal errors. Putting Wright in single high man against an all pro repeatedly. The best defense on the planet kept on giving up first downs to Kent State and Danny Amendola. Bruce Irvin getting butthurt and going thug and getting kicked out.
1) 8 Turnovers from our ballhandling SG
2) Two missed free throws in the final minute of regulation — one from Ginobili and the other from Kawhi
3) The offensive rebound off a badly missed three-point attempt from James that gave him a second try and — when he buried it deep on the left wing — cut the lead to two with 20 seconds left.
5) Manu and Kawhi caught ball watching while Allen gets his final rebound
6) Pop taking Duncan out on defense for the possessions where James and Allen each hit their second-chance threes.
7) Popovich's choice to have Parker on the bench for the final 31 seconds of overtime, thus allowing Evita possbly the worst TO in NBA history and his 8th in the game...
8) Ginobili. The turnover with 44 seconds left in overtime with the Spurs trailing 101-00, a telegraphed pass from the baseline to James near the free throw line; his furious drive through the lane on the Spurs' final possession where the whistles stayed silent and Ginobili had his new career high in turnovers.
how you can compare that string of chokes with the Seahawks play is beyond me
This is just off the top of my head. I'm sure if I look at the line play I can find stupid from Unger and others as well. You have been working on your fest for 2 years and that is all you have? It was Manu taking a , missed free throws and two long rebounds. YAY!!
That picture clearly shows that the ball is almost out of his hands by the time Butler is breaking towards the ball. The play is not designed to be bang bang. The whole point of the play is to wait for Kearse to move upfield to screen off Butler but him getting jammed at the line of scrimmage threw the execution off. Of course the ball placement was not as good as it could've been and Wilson even alluded to that in the postgame. I agree that it should not have been thrown high and away. If anything, he could be criticized for the placement of that throw but not for making that throw.There is no time to make a read? What do you think he was doing when he paused that tick when he hit his back foot?
Had he actually thrown it bang bang, Butler cannot get there in time but instead he throws to the slant late when his receivers man is inside of him and driving on the football.
Compounding matters, the ball placement was . It was high and out front when it needed to be a dart right at the breadbasket. You have heard about throwing high into the middle of the field?
Wilson choked.
, they even designed the play to go after Butler, rather than Revis/Browner, which was the intelligent move, too..
The only criticism I have is that they probably could have ran a play-action or a boot, which may have been more effective in that situation, since they were opting to pass..
The legion of boom got beat by Danny Amendola and Kent State. That is like losing in the clutch to JJ Barea and Austin Rivers.
I agree. I thought they should've passed it to the outside rather than the middle of the field but they never considered that the pass would be intercepted and truthfully, it doesn't 99% of the time. They even showed a stat that that pass was the only pass from the opponent's 1 yd line to be intercepted all year so I don't think throwing an interception ever crossed their minds.
He's already made his break. That is the point. See how his arms are swinging and he's got that lean?
if you want to think that the play was designed for the pass to be out in front of the pick like that instead of behind it then you go ahead. How much basketball and pnr have you watched? You have no clue what youre seeing do you?
I love how people make up stories about play design and what the OC intended. Unless you have quotes your guess is as good as mine and frankly not worth bringing up.
When the did I say it was suppose to be out in front of the pick like that? I just told you the pass itself was way too out in front of him and that it should've been low and away near his hip. How is basketball and pnr relevant to this??He's already made his break. That is the point. See how his arms are swinging and he's got that lean?
I love how people make up stories about play design and what the OC intended. Unless you have quotes your guess is as good as mine and frankly not worth bringing up.
Many teams run this play as it is pretty common. It's not that hard to see what was intended on the play.
Exactly. People forget context of losing Game 6 because the Spurs happened to redeem themselves the next year. Seahawks had won the prior year so that alone made it less painful.
Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. Everybody thought that was Tim's last year, including Green who tweeted that he's going to try his hardest to get the crew back together.
Game 6 could've been the end of an era. The Seahawk core is young, they'll have plenty more years to redeem themselves.
I thought the Niners would as well and their window shut after about 4 years, they had a few shots to win it all but came up empty in Seattle and the SB that one year. Football your window is seemingly shorter than basketball because you lose players every year and it's hard to keep a team together when you start paying guys the big bucks. Seattle might be around for a while or they will eventually fall back like most do when their window closes, depends IMO if they keep beast mode on the team as he is their main guy that holds the O together IMO. If he declines?Less painful yes but honestly the latest one is the one that stings the most to fans, recent memory.
Last edited by Sean Cagney; 02-03-2015 at 08:11 PM.
The year later diminished 6, the redemption run and I won't dwell on that again after they got 5. We know they were roping off the court and they handed that one away no doubt, seen it and heard it a million times which is what makes last year so much sweeter.
Lol true, but when your biggest acquisition via free agency in recent memory is Richard Jefferson... You kind of know your team is ed for a long time
Yeah that Richard Jefferson signing was one of the worst, glad we got rid of his contract as that was a HUGE addition by subtraction there. You have to find a real idiot to take on a contract like that and the Spurs shipped him out and got rid of his contract and got Jackson who had a good playoff run in 012 so that was a win win there. I thought the Spurs were done in 011 as most of us did, nobody saw the runs after that and if they said they did they are LYING. They looked spend, Tim looked done moreso than anyone.Lol true, but when your biggest acquisition via free agency in recent memory is Richard Jefferson... You kind of know your team is ed for a long time
They traded someone whose jersey is in the rafters for him (albeit at the end of his career). But know where you're coming from there. Unless you luck into a top 5 player in the league, les are almost impossible to grab in the NBA.Lol true, but when your biggest acquisition via free agency in recent memory is Richard Jefferson... You kind of know your team is ed for a long time
The year later is irrelevant to this comparison, though, like the year before is irrelevant to the Seahawks' choke. Ignoring everything else and just comparing the chokes, I really don't see much of an argument for Struggle's pick being worse than 6. Biggest choke in NFL history? Yes, but not bigger than 6.
What was intended was the pass would be behind the screen similar to how bball screeners obstruct defenders from shots and plays. Much like bball the same play never happens the same way twice. There are certain things that you want to accomplish like throw it such that the defender is obstructed from making a play. His screener was jammed sure but that means you adjust and throw it behind the pick. The ball wasn't just placed badly. The throw was late.
Wilson choked.
I disagree, most out there are calling it the biggest choke job ever but probably because it is more recent and the NFL is alot bigger than basketball as far as viewers go and it's fresh on the mind. The super bowl play is being talked about ALOT more than 6 was by the media etc. 6 was bad we all know but honestly I don't really sweat it anymore after last year and nobody can tell me different. Last years as I said was sweet, revenge against that team in particular. If the Seahawks win it next year I am sure their fans will have alot less of a sting as well, just recent history is what fans care about and what happened this year.
Your metagame analysis is correct, but as you know a poker (or coaching) decision that is correct in a metagame vacuum can be wrong to make in certain situations. The higher "EV play" here was to go with Lynch 3 straight times. Why?
- New England performed poorly in this situation all season long.
- Lynch didn't have one carry for negative yards all game long. Additionally, New England's defense looked exhausted at that point.
- Belichick unexpectedly did not call a time out, like he knew if the let time run, Carroll would become over-concerned about the clock and run a pass play in that situation. Not only a pass play, but that specific slant. Even Butler said they practiced defending against that particular play leading up to the game. And when you watch the footage, he was already breaking toward the middle before the ball was even snapped.
- Wilson is undersized. Slants often give undersized QBs a lot of trouble. Also, a quick slant can also be easily tipped either by the defense or the intended receiver. If any pass was going to called there, it should've been a fade.
Carroll stuck to his metagame (as Pop often does), failing to adjust appropriately to the situation, and it cost him a le. It's like a poker player getting bullied off a pot by a LAG because the "book" says to fold here when you should've called given your opponent's tendencies.
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