Paces vs Spurs: Unbiased Team Breakdown

[samikeyp]

And you ask why... because I am a HUGE Pacer fan and I know 10 times more about my team than anyone on here... I am just trying to tell you all that we are not even close to as bad as many Spurs fans feel we are... I am just trying to educate... and I have been educated on your team in the process... it is a win-win situations for both of us.

so because you know the Pacers, that means you automatically know the Spurs?

You reek of arrogance by assuming we need education.

[jermaine7fan]

I wouldn't say that Foster/Harrison are better players than Rasho. Foster plays with more intensity and grabs more rebounds, but his defense isn't as good as Rasho's when Rasho plays.

I don't believe Harrison is that good. I think that his status is overinflated because he played more minutes due to a lack of depth last season on the Pacers.


Bender has shown flashes of being good until he gets injured. Unrealized potential is totally useless, whereas Horry has actual accomplishments. You can count on Bender being injured another year, just as you can count on Horry hitting every big shot next year.

I am in total agreement with you on the Bender and Horry thing... but Bender may play this year... wait I think I just jinxed him... Horry definately has it now.

Foster is a great defender too... rebounding is not his only skill... he can block shots and get steals in the passing lanes. He is just not a big scorer... he gets all of his points from being in the right place at the right time.

Harrison - has toned up a lot from last season... definately needed... I don't think he lost much weight overall... he added a lot of muscle. He is a good shot blocker and has excellent shot selection... he has shot 60+% at every level he has played at. Harrison will do more harm than good though if he does not discover how to play D in the NBA... he has some severe fouling problems. He also is a horrible rebounder... he does not possition himself well at all. If Harrison ever gets over his proneness to foul and if he can improve on rebounding... he may be one of the top 5 centers in the NBA one day.

[jermaine7fan]

Everybody loves my sig, including me.

So you would rather have a couple of players with no experience that "could" pan out in the Finals rather than having 3 proven veterans that have proven themselves time and time again??

Please put down your crack pipe.

For the future... yes... but if the NBA were over after this season I would much rather have Finley and Horry over Granger and Bender... I would still rather have Sarunas over a very aged Nick Van Exel. Oh... and crack does not touch my pipe

[jermaine7fan]

so because you know the Pacers, that means you automatically know the Spurs?

You reek of arrogance by assuming we need education.

Many people on here obviously do... cause the Pacers were getting zero and negative respect before I got on here... and they still are by some. I don't deny that you all have the best team in the NBA... I don't deny the talent on your roster... but many on here do deny my team the later. And I don't see how I reak of arrogance when I have posted 50+ times that your team is better than mine... how is that at all arrogant?

[50 cent]

For the future... yes... but if the NBA were over after this season I would much rather have Finley and Horry over Granger and Bender... I would still rather have Sarunas over a very aged Nick Van Exel. Oh... and crack does not touch my pipe

Well, next year is what you keep saying we have to worry about. We are telling you that we aren't worried about the Pacers because they can't matchup against our proven players.

I agree the Pacers will be good next year and could be great in several years if their youth talent pans out, but they won't even be a remote concern to the Spurs next year or the year after.

[Spurs košarka kultura]

Oh... and crack does not touch my pipe

here here ( but I'm still going to have to take Horry, Fin, and Nick the Still Quick Old Man)

[samikeyp]

By assuming we need to be "educated" by you...THAT is arrogant. What you are saying it that because people do not agree with you, they must be substandard in their knowledge of NBA basketball. I find it amusing that when a "unbiased" breakdown favors the Pacers...its all good but when it favors the Spurs people "need to be educated"

Many people on here obviously do

there is another arrogant statement.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I'll say this much for our dear friends the Pacers. Their bench and coach is underrated. They were able to hold down the fort while Jax, O'Neal, and Artest were serving their suspension. You can argue the talent thing until you're blue in the face (personally I think the Spurs come out on top on that one) but here's something very telling.

Let's say that it was the Spurs playing the Pistons that night in Detroit. I don't think any Spur would have thrown a hard foul at Ben Wallace in garbage time. If they had, I don't believe any Spur would have laid out on the scorer's table just looking to piss someone off like Artest did. Nor would two other Spurs have tried to pick a fight while the Pistons were trying to herd Big Ben off the court (ala Jackson and Tinsley.) And let's suppose for a second that all of this did happen and a beer got thrown. I couldn't imagine a Spur tearing off looking for blood in the stands, much less a second Spur going in there, not to stop his teammate, but to fire a few haymakers of his own. And I don't see a Spurs player knocking some helpless fat guy out cold when they should be heading for the locker room.

I know some people are wandering what the that has to do with anything. I'm not saying that the Spurs would win because they are boy scouts. That episode revealed that the core of the Pacers had a number of opportunities to exercise restraint and good judgement, but didn't. The Spurs are a better team because they are more mature, mentally stronger, and don't make stupid mistakes on or off the court.

[jermaine7fan]

By assuming we need to be "educated" by you...THAT is arrogant. What you are saying it that because people do not agree with you, they must be substandard in their knowledge of NBA basketball. I find it amusing that when a "unbiased" breakdown favors the Pacers...its all good but when it favors the Spurs people "need to be educated"



there is another arrogant statement.

I don't think an unbiased breakdown would favor the Pacers... and I have not given us the favoring either. And I fealt many people on here were not giving us any respect... zero... that is why I wanted to educate... because our chances are much, much higher than zero. But again... you all have the better team...


And that statement is somewhat arrogant... it is also arrogant to believe that the Pacers have no chance of beating the Spurs. Which is what many on here believe... Now... if I were on here telling you that you all were gonna get worked by the Pacers who are the best team in the league... that would be arrogant... and I am nowhere close to saying that...

[jermaine7fan]

here here ( but I'm still going to have to take Horry, Fin, and Nick the Still Quick Old Man)

PS - I love Van Exel... I think he was a great pick up for you and he and Finley will give you a tough scoring second unit back court... but I would still rather have Sarunas over him... and I think deep down... you would too

[Marcus Bryant]

Damn, well, we Spurs fans are just going to have to suffer through another season with our miserable team.



Maybe one day the Spurs can be like the Pacers.

[jermaine7fan]

I'll say this much for our dear friends the Pacers. Their bench and coach is underrated. They were able to hold down the fort while Jax, O'Neal, and Artest were serving their suspension. You can argue the talent thing until you're blue in the face (personally I think the Spurs come out on top on that one) but here's something very telling.

Let's say that it was the Spurs playing the Pistons that night in Detroit. I don't think any Spur would have thrown a hard foul at Ben Wallace in garbage time. If they had, I don't believe any Spur would have laid out on the scorer's table just looking to piss someone off like Artest did. Nor would two other Spurs have tried to pick a fight while the Pistons were trying to herd Big Ben off the court (ala Jackson and Tinsley.) And let's suppose for a second that all of this did happen and a beer got thrown. I couldn't imagine a Spur tearing off looking for blood in the stands, much less a second Spur going in there, not to stop his teammate, but to fire a few haymakers of his own. And I don't see a Spurs player knocking some helpless fat guy out cold when they should be heading for the locker room.

I know some people are wandering what the that has to do with anything. I'm not saying that the Spurs would win because they are boy scouts. That episode revealed that the core of the Pacers had a number of opportunities to exercise restraint and good judgement, but didn't. The Spurs are a better team because they are more mature, mentally stronger, and don't make stupid mistakes on or off the court.

I am with you on almost all of that... you guys have the most classy organization in the league... my team is quite thuggish at times... I would much rather them be more like you all in those regards... and I think my team will be looking up to your team in that respect this year... I don't think you will see near as much drama from the Pacers as you did last year... and I place alot of that on the fact that we are looking at the Spurs for an example of how to be. Thank you very much for this post... the first paragraph is all I wanted to hear from at least one Spur fan for the last week that I have been on here... You just made my day for this thread! I don't expect everyone to give us praise on here... I just wanted someone to... and I wish there was less Pacer bashing.

[Spurs košarka kultura]

I fealt many people on here were not giving us any respect... zero... that is why I wanted to educate... because our chances are much, much higher than zero.

Who's disputing that? I mean i can't recall the last time the Pacers had a simply horrible record i.e. Hawks style. People are getting upset when overzealous Pacer fans start making just down right ridiculous statements such as " Rick Carlise is by far more proven than Pop." and " Bruce Bowen is the worst starter in the NBA." or " We'll see you and beat you in the Finals! Because well, we're just down right better." Just absolute nonsense.

[jermaine7fan]

Damn, well, we Spurs fans are just going to have to suffer through another season with our miserable team.



Maybe one day the Spurs can be like the Pacers.

WTF are you talking about??? Did I ever say you are going to have a bad season... did I ever say that the Spurs need to be like the Pacers??? Nope... I actually said the opposite of both things...

Why are you trying to start ?

[jermaine7fan]

Who's disputing that? I mean i can't recall the last time the Pacers had a simply horrible record i.e. Hawks style. People are getting upset when overzealous Pacer fans start making just down right ridiculous statements such as " Rick Carlise is by far more proven than Pop." and " Bruce Bowen is the worst starter in the NBA." or " We'll see you and beat you in the Finals! Because well, we're just down right better." Just absolute nonsense.

And I don't agree with any of those statements either... and I made no statement's resembling them. And many people were disputing it at the start of this thread with a simple... Pacers suck... that is the kind of crap I am standing up against.

Pop- best coach in the NBA... should coach the olympics next time around... rick prolly third best... also behind Larry.

Eric Snow is the worst starter in the NBA.

And... we will see you in the Finals... but you all will most likely succeed.

I am not against the Spurs... they are the top organization in the NBA!

[Spurs košarka kultura]

and I think deep down... you would too

Yeah but we already have a young point guard, and even though he did struggle in the Finals, he did in fact gain the experience. Anyway what rookie isn't going to look bad by being guarded by one of the better, if not best, defensive point guards in the league, Lindsey Hunter, moreover in the Finals? Plus Beno can hit three right along with Sarunas. Following that, were talking about a Spurs team here, not exactly the easiest schemes to pick up. I'll keep Beno and Nick.

[jermaine7fan]

Yeah but we already have a young point guard, and even though he did struggle in the Finals, he did in fact gain the experience. Anyway what rookie isn't going to look bad by being guarded by one of the better, if not best, defensive point guards in the league, Lindsey Hunter, moreover in the Finals? Plus Beno can hit three right along with Sarunas. Following that, were talking about a Spurs team here, not exactly the easiest schemes to pick up. I'll keep Beno and Nick.

I like Udrih alot too. He was one of the most underrated rookies last year. He could be your quality backup point for a long time... I think you may always have a better starter than him though. Beno, Nick, and Tony are one of the top PG packages in the NBA... right up there with Tinsley, Johnson, and Sarunas... you guys will not be wanting at the PG possition this year (or really any other position... barring injuries). Good luck in the upcoming season!

[samikeyp]

And that statement is somewhat arrogant... it is also arrogant to believe that the Pacers have no chance of beating the Spurs. Which is what many on here believe... Now... if I were on here telling you that you all were gonna get worked by the Pacers who are the best team in the league... that would be arrogant... and I am nowhere close to saying that...

ok first you say you are not being arrogant...then you say you are, then not again...waffle much?

No one has said in this thread the Pacers don't have a chance...do you often lie to back up your points? You on the other hand have insulted posters by calling their opinions "jokes"...you said the Spurs success in the playoff was lucky, you said Spurs fans were "blind" if we thought the Spurs were better that Indy. and you continually lump all Spurs fans together as of the same mindset...despite your claims to the contrary. You state your opinion and if someone disagrees you drop the homer card. You come in and talk and when people pound on you for it, you drop the "we don't get respect" card. Not everyone is going to agree with you 100% and they don't have to. You believe what you do and that doesn't make you wrong. Works for others too.

[Spurs košarka kultura]

In conclusion
IMO:

Real Pacer Fans: jermaine7fan, SoupIsGood

Complete and utter Dumb : The Artest Factor

[samikeyp]

Complete and utter Dumb : The Artest Factor

on that we can all agree.

[Kori Ellis]

your bench is filled with old superstars... ours is filled with young roll players. And Sarunas is definately the best man from either bench.

How often have you seen Sarunas play?
Why are you confident his game will translate well to the NBA?
Do you have any worries (like most GM's have had for the last five years) that he'll be too slow to play in the NBA?

I'm just curious how you can tout him as the best player on either the Spurs or Pacers bench.

[SoupIsGood]

I wouldn't say that Foster/Harrison are better players than Rasho. Foster plays with more intensity and grabs more rebounds, but his defense isn't as good as Rasho's when Rasho plays.

I don't believe Harrison is that good. I think that his status is overinflated because he played more minutes due to a lack of depth last season on the Pacers.


Bender has shown flashes of being good until he gets injured. Unrealized potential is totally useless, whereas Horry has actual accomplishments. You can count on Bender being injured another year, just as you can count on Horry hitting every big shot next year.

Foster is an excellent defender. Rasho is the better shotblocker, and guards the bigger centers a little better, but that's it. Foster is extremely quick laterally and a real pest in the post.

Harrison is my favorite player in this league right now, so I have watched him a lot. He's got offensive and shot blocking skills. He is excellent at blocking out, but he struggled catching the ball and often dropped rebounds. He looked to be overcoming that late though. He's got the talent, I'm hoping he can put it all together soon...

[Kori Ellis]

Harrison is my favorite player in this league right now, so I have watched him a lot. He's got offensive and shot blocking skills. He is excellent at blocking out, but he struggled catching the ball and often dropped rebounds. He looked to be overcoming that late though. He's got the talent, I'm hoping he can put it all together soon...

Any worries of Harrison staying healthy?

19-May-05: Missed the last 20 games of the regular season and all 13 playoff games (sore left knee).
16-Mar-05: Sore left knee, injured list.
04-Feb-05: Missed 11 games (concussion).
14-Jan-05: Concussion, injured list.
04-Dec-04: Missed 1 game (ankle injury).
03-Dec-04: Ankle injury, day-to-day.
07-Jul-04: Signed by the Indiana Pacers to a multi-year contract. Got hurt during summer league play at RMR.

[jermaine7fan]

ok first you say you are not being arrogant...then you say you are, then not again...waffle much?

No one has said in this thread the Pacers don't have a chance...do you often lie to back up your points? You on the other hand have insulted posters by calling their opinions "jokes"...you said the Spurs success in the playoff was lucky, you said Spurs fans were "blind" if we thought the Spurs were better that Indy. and you continually lump all Spurs fans together as of the same mindset...despite your claims to the contrary. You state your opinion and if someone disagrees you drop the homer card. You come in and talk and when people pound on you for it, you drop the "we don't get respect" card. Not everyone is going to agree with you 100% and they don't have to. You believe what you do and that doesn't make you wrong. Works for others too.

You are not looking at me very well.

-I said it was a little arrogant... which it wasn't intended to be at all.

-I called their opinions jokes after they made the same claim of mine

-I said they were lucky to not have the injury woes my team did... not that they were luck to win it... they earned it.

-I said people were "blind" for not seeing Indy as a threat... not that they were blind for not seeing that Indy is better... because again... I think the Spurs are better.

-I am not lumping all Spurs fans... I refer to the ones that stated simple minded thoughts... like the Pacers suck. I did not intend to be alluding to all Spurs fans... if that is what you thought... and I already appologized in a different post if it seemed that way to anyone.

-I don't drop the Homer card... I think that is one of the lamest things to do on a message board... your a homer, no your a homer... that is stupid... find one message where I pulled the Homer card and post it.

-And look at the entire first page of posts on this thread... yup... looks real respectful to me




Did I clear anything up for ya?

[SoupIsGood]

Any worries of Harrison staying healthy.

19-May-05: Missed the last 20 games of the regular season and all 13 playoff games (sore left knee).
16-Mar-05: Sore left knee, injured list.
04-Feb-05: Missed 11 games (concussion).
14-Jan-05: Concussion, injured list.
04-Dec-04: Missed 1 game (ankle injury).
03-Dec-04: Ankle injury, day-to-day.
07-Jul-04: Signed by the Indiana Pacers to a multi-year contract. Got hurt during summer league play at RMR.

Well, that basically boils down to a freak concussion and a late season knee injury.

It's only one season, so he's definitely not injury-prone yet.

However, there's another season it really doesn't worry me: the season we had last year. Everyone that COULD get injured, did. And just when a player was really starting to come on, you could pretty much pencil him in for a 1-2 week (at least) stay on the IR. We were simply snakebitten last year, I'm hoping that bad luck has worn off now.

BTW, did you see when he got the concussion? It was really weird, he didn't pass out and fall down, he was knocked out but still walking.