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  1. #126
    Veteran Spurs da champs's Avatar
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    Stanley Johnson doesn’t seem to get much playing time from the Pistons. But can he help?
    It's worth a shot, he's still very young and he's a big wing.

  2. #127
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    There are no such things as having "guard skills" or "forward skills" because there are many different types of guards and forwards. Kyle Anderson has nothing to do with Kyle Korver and both are listed as small forwards. Patty Mills has nothing to do with JJ Barea and both play PG. You just have off-ball players and playmakers, and both of those type of players come in all sizes and positions, BUT, at equal level of talent, it is always better to have both of those types of skillsets in wing sized players,
    So there's a lot wrong with this. They are many types of skills and multiple types of players. But some skills tend to show up in certain players more frequently, and some skills work better on certain positions. Having a guard who's a great shot-blocker is just not as useful as having a big who is a great shot-blocker. It tends to be easier for guards to be elite ball-handlers because of biomechanics. That's why guys like Giannis and Kristaps are considered unicorns. They display skills you would expect to find in guys much shorter than them.

    We don't disagree that in the modern age, kids are learning guard skills despite being taller. That's why almost every big coming out of school today has some semblance of a three-point shot. In even the recent past, those kids would have been discouraged from learning those skills over perfecting their post game or bulking up to defend inside. That creates a more skilled front-court crop to select from, which makes it less important to have guards with those skills.

    This has two results. The first is that having "6-6 guys who can move their feet and shoot" is becoming extremely common. Those players aren't rare, even if PATFO treats them like they are. The d-league is full of those players. What you'd want is for the Spurs to identify the best of those players and cycle through them to find someone who sticks. They did this in the past leading to them finding Green. They tried it with guys like Malcolm Thomas and JaMychal Green. There's no excuse why they aren't doing it now. They aren't good enough to let guys like Pon eat up a spot and to earmark a precious two-way for Huestis. Those are spots to try out players like Davon Reed and Jarrod Uthoff. Them sitting on their haunches is frustrating to everyone.

    The second result is where I think we are having our disconnect. Because of the more skilled front-court crop, back-court players are more available than ever. Again, I know it doesn't look like it, but it's easier than ever to acquire a shorter guy who can handle the ball and score points. Just because forwards got better doesn't mean guards got worse. So for the same resources available to pick up C-level wings, PATFO should be able to get B-level guards. If for some reason bigs were still learning post skills, them those skills would be cheaper to acquire than every. But since there's a finite amount of improvement someone can make during their development, those elements fell off for the aforementioned perimeter elements.

    So it's cheaper and easier to get quality guards, and if you can find them, it's cheaper to get inside, post bigs. That gives the justification for considering a specialist approach to roster building. The next step is talking about its efficacy. This is getting really long as it is, so I'll leave it there for now, but as a short explanation, I'll say that a team with a methodical and disciplined offensive game plan does better with specialists, and a team with a faster-paced, free-flowing game plan does better with generalists. When the Spurs had their elite defense, it made much more sense to have the former game plan. But with their lack of talent (really on both sides of the ball outside of their main two guys and maybe Gay), it's becoming less advantageous.

  3. #128
    Veteran r0drig0lac's Avatar
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    Stanley Johnson doesn’t seem to get much playing time from the Pistons. But can he help?
    he is a starter, I doubt they are interested in trading, there are probably some options for low value in intermediate teams or even in the g-league, Spurs definitely needs a small forward (two imo)

  4. #129
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    let's sign Brandon Paul, he's supposedly as good as Jonathon Simmons some people say

  5. #130
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    let's sign Brandon Paul, he's supposedly as good as Jonathon Simmons some people say
    https://www.basketball-reference.com...01&idx=players

    Simmons has been effin' terrible this year (like absolutely as bad as Patty). I'd much rather than Paul right now than Jon.

  6. #131
    Believe. paperboy77's Avatar
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    Could they trade for Simmons? Yeah he's right now probably one of those deals where the SA system made him look good.

  7. #132
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    let's sign Brandon Paul, he's supposedly as good as Jonathon Simmons some people say
    lol I'm watching the Magic right now. Simmons is a ing scrub.

    On the season, he's shooting 25% from the field and 9% from 3, and his defense is even worse

    Bryn Forbes >>> Simmons. Let that sink in.

  8. #133
    3 stars and a sun
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    he is a starter, I doubt they are interested in trading, there are probably some options for low value in intermediate teams or even in the g-league, Spurs definitely needs a small forward (two imo)
    Casey likes himself some 2-3 PG line ups. Maybe he’ll like Bryn Forbes?

    Based on his minutes, I didn’t notice Stanley was a starter.

    Was thinking also of Justin Holiday. But Bulls are pretty banged up. Though if they get ahigh pick in next year’s 2019 SF rich draft...

  9. #134
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Could they trade for Simmons? Yeah he's right now probably one of those deals where the SA system made him look good.
    When was he good with the Spurs?

  10. #135
    NostraSpurMus phxspurfan's Avatar
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    What a weird thread

  11. #136
    Believe. paperboy77's Avatar
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    DAF86.... When was he good with the Spurs?

    He was an important part of a very good team, a key cog. Not sure why anyone wouldn't see that? You're implying he was not good but instead bad.. what's your basis? It's not all about stats. I'm just saying the team today sucks ass and a guy like Simmons who was an important piece back then might put some fire under their ass (effort and at ude wise). Besides he's better than any 3 we have on the roster. The thigk missing is a guy with fire.

  12. #137
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    DAF86.... When was he good with the Spurs?

    He was an important part of a very good team, a key cog. Not sure why anyone wouldn't see that? You're implying he was not good but instead bad.. what's your basis? It's not all about stats. I'm just saying the team today sucks ass and a guy like Simmons who was an important piece back then might put some fire under their ass (effort and at ude wise). Besides he's better than any 3 we have on the roster. The thigk missing is a guy with fire.
    Well, what is it about then? Flashy dunks?

    My basis is seeing him play and suck ass, and then go to the stats and reaffirm that, Indeed, he sucks ass.

    Simmons is going into his 4th season as an NBA player, and he has yet to post positive impact numbers. His teams have always been worse with him on the court than without him.

  13. #138
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    JSimms suffered a wrist injury late last season and missed training during the summer. He only just started playing in training camp. He has always been streaky and considering lack of summer training shooting with his hand the bad start doesn't surprise me. He might not get in rhythm until later in the season. Hoping for him that wrist injury doesn't affect him like Pattys shoulder. (Patty was very bad the season immediately succeeding the injury.)That missed the point of the thread badly though.

  14. #139
    Believe. paperboy77's Avatar
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    Well, what is it about then? Flashy dunks?

    My basis is seeing him play and suck ass, and then go to the stats and reaffirm that, Indeed, he sucks ass.

    Simmons is going into his 4th season as an NBA player, and he has yet to post positive impact numbers. His teams have always been worse with him on the court than without him.

    Nah.. I don't go ape- about "the closest shot possible" like most shallow fans do.... it's still just 2 points. However, a dunk under the right cir stances can change the course of the game.

    I'm just sayin DA 86, that in this Spurs fans opinion "the Juice" could help maybe bring back some of the Spurs grit we are accustomed to. Even Manu endorsed this guy. Don't want to argue about it it's just my thought. Still he would be more welcome by this Spurs fan than any other SF on the current squad.

  15. #140
    One Bad Ass MoFo SouthTexasRancher's Avatar
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    Simmons has gone into the sewer. He is terrible these days.

  16. #141
    Believe. paperboy77's Avatar
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    Just saying SouthTexasRancher, if you worked at a ty place you may not be fulfilling your potential right? Sometimes the grass isn't greener on the other side.

  17. #142
    Believe.
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    Was Simmons ever good? He would get hot like 1 out of 15 games, that's worst then Pattys 1 out of 14 games.

  18. #143
    Believe. anon's Avatar
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    Was Simmons ever good? He would get hot like 1 out of 15 games, that's worst then Pattys 1 out of 14 games.
    He could defend three positions, and was often the most reliable dribble penetrator not named Leonard. Finishing consistently is a different story but getting the defense to collapse on the ball inside the paint to free up more space for shooters is half the point of dribble penetration. Those two skills alone are already worth more than what Fiddy brings to the floor.

  19. #144
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    DAF86.... When was he good with the Spurs?

    He was an important part of a very good team, a key cog. Not sure why anyone wouldn't see that? You're implying he was not good but instead bad.. what's your basis? It's not all about stats. I'm just saying the team today sucks ass and a guy like Simmons who was an important piece back then might put some fire under their ass (effort and at ude wise). Besides he's better than any 3 we have on the roster. The thigk missing is a guy with fire.
    He could defend three positions, and was often the most reliable dribble penetrator not named Leonard. Finishing consistently is a different story but getting the defense to collapse on the ball inside the paint to free up more space for shooters is half the point of dribble penetration. Those two skills alone are already worth more than what Fiddy brings to the floor.


    at least some guys in here understand Basketball.



    Besides the Magic being trash and players playing better when they play together with better players, the guy plays too big of a role for Orlando. He's not supposed to be 6th man. He's a glue guy with enforcer personality. Him as 7th or better yet 8th guy on the roster would be perfect. He always brought that energy and with Manu missing, we really need somebody like him off the bench. Sadly PATFO thinks that guy is 50 Mills. Even last season with Kawhi sitting out, we really could've needed Simmons. He was clearly better than Kyle Anderson and I see quite a lot of people complaining we let Anderson go. His cap hold was 1.5 million and we had bird rights. And he seemed to get along with everybody on the team from Lamarcus, Kawhi, Danny, Dejounte, Kyle and so on. They still all like each others posts on IG. So Pop really must've had a problem with him, even though he said Simmons was in a class by himself when they played the Warriors in the Playoffs, cause he was the only one fighting to win while everybody else played like scared es. How you wouldn't make a player like that an offer at all is beyond my understanding.
    Last edited by RC_Drunkford; 10-26-2018 at 05:03 AM.

  20. #145
    Veteran r0drig0lac's Avatar
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    He could defend three positions, and was often the most reliable dribble penetrator not named Leonard. Finishing consistently is a different story but getting the defense to collapse on the ball inside the paint to free up more space for shooters is half the point of dribble penetration. Those two skills alone are already worth more than what Fiddy brings to the floor.
    this, it is not difficult to understand honestly.... and he really can defend on a pro level, , Semi Ojeleye does not even have regular minutes in Boston, and would probably starting here just for his defensive versatility

  21. #146
    Veteran r0drig0lac's Avatar
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  22. #147
    Hope springs eternal. SAGirl's Avatar
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    You think a trade is cooking?

    Edit: can't be it bc I believe he can't be traded yet right? Chinook thanks.

  23. #148
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    You think a trade is cooking? I loved Evans, I wanted him as a FA.
    Evans can't be traded until 12/15, so no, there's nothing cooking on that front.

  24. #149
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    The Magic defense is 3 pts worse when Simmons gets into the game. Quite the defender he is.

  25. #150
    Veteran RC_Drunkford's Avatar
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    luckily there will be plenty of SFs in next years free agency. If we can somehow manage to open up cap space by moving Gasol and maybe even Mills or Bertans/Belinelli I would love if we make a run at Kelly Oubre and Stanley Johnson who are both 22 years old (would fit the timeline of our new young core) and are also RFA's. Especially Johnson should come cheap. I don't know how high Oubre's price would be and if Pop would want a player of his character around.

    Ariza, Demare Carroll and Danny Green are FA's as well

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