Memphis, injured and w/ 2 week layoff, is objectively better than us. Might be time to tank.

[J_Paco]

Of course there's no guarantees that the Spurs are going to get back to being great. But if you are a fan with any sort of fiber, that's exactly what you would want to happen.

And fans have opinions. Right or wrong, they only want what they perceive is the best for the team. They wouldn't be fans otherwise. Nobody is any less of a fan because they don't agree with you.

It's not like Pop comes here and reads these posts anyways.

Well they also need to realize that with the good times (the last twenty years) come bad times. No one stays on top forever and expecting the team or players to be perfect or to always succeed is foolish.

I get that pissing, moaning and whining is cathartic but it also makes fans (especially of an extremely successful team like the Spurs) seem en led, spoiled and lacking perspective.

Kind of like all the things once said about Laker fans.

And this isn't college, Pop can't just recruit anyone and pick his players every year. There are salary restrictions and other rules set in place to stop teams like the Spurs from having long, sustained success (even with a superstar). Yet here we are.....

It isn't about hurting Pop's "feelings," I'm sure he's far too occupied with coaching & doesn't even know ST exists, but about having perspective and respect for his accomplishments (which brought a lot of us joy).

His coaching career is coming to an end and we'll likely never have a better person coaching the Spurs.

And the Heat went from the NBA Finals, a likely flash in the pan, to likely needing to battle to make it to the play - in game.

They are looking like the 2011 Mavericks without a NBA championship to show for it.......

And to the point of this stupid thread. Ja Morant is a top 3 pick, more talented than any young player on our roster & has proven that he can carry them to W's.

The manner that they lost was embarrassing and unacceptable (from a compe ive & effort standpoint), but that they lost isn't. They put it on us a few times last year and I think the acquisition of Banes, Tillman & Dieng (better integrated this year) makes them better/deeper.

They'll be even scarier once Winslow and/or Jackson Jr. is healthy & playing at a high level. Kyle Anderson is also playing a lot better than last year and might actually be worth that "bad" contract they signed him to.

[ElNono]

Well they also need to realize that with the good times (the last twenty years) come bad times. No one stays on top forever and expecting the team or players to be perfect or to always succeed is foolish.

I get that pissing, moaning and whining is cathartic but it also makes fans (especially of an extremely successful team like the Spurs) seem en led, spoiled and lacking perspective.

Kind of like all the things once said about Laker fans.

And this isn't college, Pop can't just recruit anyone and pick his players every year. There are salary restrictions and other rules set in place to stop teams like the Spurs from having long, sustained success (even with a superstar). Yet here we are.....

It isn't about hurting Pop's "feelings," I'm sure he's far too occupied with coaching & doesn't even know ST exists, but about having perspective and respect for his accomplishments (which brought a lot of us joy).

His coaching career is coming to an end and we'll likely never have a better person coaching the Spurs.

And the Heat went from the NBA Finals, a likely flash in the pan, to likely needing to battle to make it to the play - in game.

They are looking like the 2011 Mavericks without a NBA championship to show for it.......

Pop certainly earned the right to coach this team for as long as he wants, tbh, much to my chagrin, but we all certainly also have the right voice our opinion about it, whether somebody cares or not.

And I will disaree that Pop doesn't pick his players. Maybe not to the level of college, but it's also a lie to pretend he doesn't have an instrumental role in building the roster.

I was a fairly staunch defender of Pop (Matt Bonner notwithstanding), but since ~2015 I felt he cares more about wines and culture than basketball, and I think it shows.

As Harlem said a long time ago, why can't father time catch up to coaches too? He's won it all at the highest level, multiple times. His job and livelihood hasn't been on the line for many years now.

[J_Paco]

Pop certainly earned the right to coach this team for as long as he wants, tbh, much to my chagrin, but we all certainly also have the right voice our opinion about it, whether somebody cares or not.

And I will disaree that Pop doesn't pick his players. Maybe not to the level of college, but it's also a lie to pretend he doesn't have an instrumental role in building the roster.

I was a fairly staunch defender of Pop (Matt Bonner notwithstanding), but since ~2015 I felt he cares more about wines and culture than basketball, and I think it shows.

As Harlem said a long time ago, why can't father time catch up to coaches too? He's won it all at the highest level, multiple times. His job and livelihood hasn't been on the line for many years now.

We'll agree to disagree and Pop ain't above criticism. No one should ever be.

There is a big difference between criticism and sheer lack of respect. I didn't mean that part about disrepect directly towards you, ElNono.

It just feels like on ST people (or his "haters") assume whoever his successor is will "clean up" his mistakes and the team will win les again. Which is far from the case.

The "treadmill years" were an eventuality & the team was going to take its lumps/have a down period with or without Pop. He likely wants that all - time wins record more than we all ever realized & that's okay with me since he's had so much success here.

I get that people are burnt out from his style of coaching or presence, think he's "lost" his touch and can't wait for him to move on.

He'll be gone soon which is either this year or the next and they'll get their wish.

[Thomas82]

Spurs are stuck in NBA purgatory — Not good enough to compete for anything meaningful, not bad enough to select high enough for a franchise player in the draft (unless they strike gold like they did with Nephew — highly unlikely.

This team will never tank though. Not part of the organization’s culture. We’re likely to be stuck in limbo for a while. Just the way it is unfortunately.

[tbdog]

I never claimed the Spurs need to go down the same path as the Heat... quote/link?

Below

And unlike Miami, we've been dog for 3+ seasons now, we needed to start tanking like yesterday.

Miami at least got something in return for sucking properly, not this half-assed we've been doing as a team for 4 years.

I'm not a Heat fan, so I don't know/care how they feel, but if my team was in the WCF last year, I would feel a lot better about the team prospects than if we're perennially in the 8-11 place and going nowhere season after season. You know why, I already explained it to you twice ITT and you haven't disputed this at all.

I actually been arguing the Spurs need to tank, because they neither have the picks the Heat had, nor have the ability to pull off the kind of trades the Heat made.

You keep bringing this up. I explained, Heat didn’t tank. They didn’t get high picks. When will you concede this point?

Of course they had good picks. I wish the Spurs could pick in the top 15 every other year. Like you said, that landed them an allstar center. Winslow was a All-Rookie second team his first season, he was hurt a lot in his 2nd and 3rd season and became damaged goods pretty much. That happens.

Again, they got that allstar center at pick 15. If Adebayo becomes a better player than LMA in his career, then good on them.

Yet, the Heat managed to get something for him by making him part of the Iggy trade. Again, getting value for a guy that was going to come out of his rookie deal, instead of letting it him walk for nothing (see: fathead, forbes).

Lebron left Miami for nothing. Remember? It happens. People leave. Forbes and Anderson were not fetching you an asset. Besides, for Anderson the Spurs felt that Bertans would offer the position of need at a cheaper price. As for Forbes, Spurs felt Walker was ready. Spurs are sitting at a full roster, there was no room for an asset for Forbes, anyway.


You don’t think Spurs would get at least and Iggy quality player (despite him being pretty much done). Did you not see his stats? This was a bad trade. Regardless, you don’t think the Spurs couldn’t get a better vet for White or Murray for example? White and Murray don’t have less stock because they were drafted in the 20’s. They are better players than Winslow, so they have more value.

Tanking doesn't work? Do you remember how we got Tim Duncan? How did that work out?

You give me one example and the Spurs hand was forced with DR and Elliot went down. But I could give you franchise of tank jobs after tank jobs. Take the Bucks for example. Plenty of tanks and it was Greek Freak at pick 15 that finally turned them around.

I know the Sixers well, I went to their games for a long time since they were close to where I used to live. They held too long building around Iggy, and then when they tanked it took a while but came on the other side with Simmons, Embiid and now they have a solid roster. Even Butler signed up with them back in the day.

Firstly, Butler was traded there, not signed. He left them because of culture apparently. Secondly, how many tank season did they have? They won 2 series.

I have no expectations that if the Spurs tank, it will be a swift turnaround. Realistically, it rarely is (TD notwithstanding). There's no easy/quick fix here, the question is how long are we going to continue wasting time in being not good enough to contend, not ty enough to have good picks, and also not trade anybody.

Spurs are doing things right. They playing it safe, sure. But they got good young role players and cap space about to come their way. They got tradable contracts if they need to focus at a position of need. You don't know if the Spurs get a Jokic quality player at pick 20 next season. You don't know what they'll use their cap space on. A rebuild can take many forms. They are keeping assets and good role players at good contracts. You don't just trade everything away, get a top 3 pick and act like the rebuild is done. It has proven, statistically, tanks don't work.

You need to concede on your points because they have been rejected, and just enjoy this team.

[ElNono]

Below

Not a single of those quotes say we need to follow Miami's path...

And unlike Miami, we've been dog for 3+ seasons now, we needed to start tanking like yesterday.

Fact. This team has been in 1st round fodder purgatory for 3 seasons. Last year they sucked balls even further, which landed them a good pick. Nothing about following Miami's path.

Miami at least got something in return for sucking properly, not this half-assed we've been doing as a team for 4 years.

Fact. Miami had three <= .500 seasons ('18-'19, '16-17, '14-'15) which is how they got their three top 15 picks. They only had one season where they were what we are, first round fodder, '17-'18... That's when they swung for the fences and pulled the trigger for the Butler trade. Nothing about following Miami's path.

I'm not a Heat fan, so I don't know/care how they feel, but if my team was in the WCF last year, I would feel a lot better about the team prospects than if we're perennially in the 8-11 place and going nowhere season after season. You know why, I already explained it to you twice ITT and you haven't disputed this at all.

Fact as well, nothing to do with 'following Miami's path'.

I actually been arguing the Spurs need to tank, because they neither have the picks the Heat had, nor have the ability to pull off the kind of trades the Heat made.

You keep bringing this up. I explained, Heat didn’t tank. They didn’t get high picks. When will you concede this point?

I didn't say the Heat tanked. I said they sucked properly. There's a pretty huge difference in finishing 6-8 and 10-12 when it comes to where you pick in the draft.

Dropping from 10-15 to 15-20 in the lottery normally does mean a fairly big drop in talent as well. If your season isn't looking great, start losing games. At that point the goal should be good positioning in the draft.

Again, they got that allstar center at pick 15. If Adebayo becomes a better player than LMA in his career, then good on them.

Well, only one of them helped his team reach the NBA Finals...

Lebron left Miami for nothing. Remember? It happens. People leave. Forbes and Anderson were not fetching you an asset. Besides, for Anderson the Spurs felt that Bertans would offer the position of need at a cheaper price. As for Forbes, Spurs felt Walker was ready. Spurs are sitting at a full roster, there was no room for an asset for Forbes, anyway.

You don’t think Spurs would get at least and Iggy quality player (despite him being pretty much done). Did you not see his stats? This was a bad trade. Regardless, you don’t think the Spurs couldn’t get a better vet for White or Murray for example? White and Murray don’t have less stock because they were drafted in the 20’s. They are better players than Winslow, so they have more value.

We all know why neither Forbes and Anderson were fetching this team an asset, and has nothing to do with having a full roster...

I don't want more vets unless we're flipping Patty, Gay and LMA for some sort of star talent. Then you might need a vet (which is the situation Miami found itself in).

But because realistically nobody is touching Patty, Gay and LMA for any kind of star talent, I rather stick with White and Murray for the tank.

You give me one example and the Spurs hand was forced with DR and Elliot went down. But I could give you franchise of tank jobs after tank jobs. Take the Bucks for example. Plenty of tanks and it was Greek Freak at pick 15 that finally turned them around.

I gave you an example of a tanking that worked. DR could've certainly come back earlier, and he didn't and boy ain't we all glad he didn't.

Again, I don't guarantee that tank jobs are immediate team flippers or always work out, but in this league there isn't a whole lot of ways to acquiring top talent. You either pick them in the lottery, sign them with capspace if they want to come to your team or trade for them. That's it.

The Spurs simply do not currently have the assets to pull off such a trade and this FO has been generally allergic to pull off such trades anyways. Capspace is nice, but you have two things going with it: 1) star talent has to want to sign with you, and 2) your rooks eventually will come due for a payday, so that's where some of that money will end up.

Last option is the lottery. And the lottery system we currently have is pretty basic: it rewards teams that suck. The more you suck, the higher the odds for a better reward.

Firstly, Butler was traded there, not signed. He left them because of culture apparently. Secondly, how many tank season did they have? They won 2 series.

First, just like you said when he joined Miami, Butler wanted to be there. If Jimmy doesn't want to be traded to the Sixers, he doesn't go there, period. Second, those 2 series wins are 2 more series than the Spurs have won in the past 3 seasons combined.

Spurs are doing things right. They playing it safe, sure. But they got good young role players and cap space about to come their way. They got tradable contracts if they need to focus at a position of need. You don't know if the Spurs get a Jokic quality player at pick 20 next season. You don't know what they'll use their cap space on. A rebuild can take many forms. They are keeping assets and good role players at good contracts. You don't just trade everything away, get a top 3 pick and act like the rebuild is done. It has proven, statistically, tanks don't work.

lol no, they have none of that. Keldon looks like a good pick, that's about it. None of the high value contracts outside DeRozan, who is in a contract year, are realistically tradeable. If the team can manage to convince DeRozan to stay, that's where the cap money is going. If they do not, then we're probably out of our best trade asset. While all this happen, we have to hear every summer from that loser LMA how much he'd like to go back to Portland.

On the flipside, we might end up tanking organically after all.

[TD 21]

If the team can manage to convince DeRozan to stay, that's where the cap money is going. If they do not, then we're probably out of our best trade asset. While all this happen, we have to hear every summer from that loser LMA how much he'd like to go back to Portland.

Nah, it would have been done already and Stockholm syndrome DeRozan is even worse with his obsession with all things Raptors. He's been so desperate to go back since the moment he was traded, he's practically begging for it by constantly flirting with them.

[tbdog]

Not a single of those quotes say we need to follow Miami's path...

And unlike Miami, we've been dog for 3+ seasons now, we needed to start tanking like yesterday.

Fact. This team has been in 1st round fodder purgatory for 3 seasons. Last year they sucked balls even further, which landed them a good pick. Nothing about following Miami's path.

Miami at least got something in return for sucking properly, not this half-assed we've been doing as a team for 4 years.

Fact. Miami had three <= .500 seasons ('18-'19, '16-17, '14-'15) which is how they got their three top 15 picks. They only had one season where they were what we are, first round fodder, '17-'18... That's when they swung for the fences and pulled the trigger for the Butler trade. Nothing about following Miami's path.

I'm not a Heat fan, so I don't know/care how they feel, but if my team was in the WCF last year, I would feel a lot better about the team prospects than if we're perennially in the 8-11 place and going nowhere season after season. You know why, I already explained it to you twice ITT and you haven't disputed this at all.

Fact as well, nothing to do with 'following Miami's path'.







I didn't say the Heat tanked. I said they sucked properly. There's a pretty huge difference in finishing 6-8 and 10-12 when it comes to where you pick in the draft.

Dropping from 10-15 to 15-20 in the lottery normally does mean a fairly big drop in talent as well. If your season isn't looking great, start losing games. At that point the goal should be good positioning in the draft.




Well, only one of them helped his team reach the NBA Finals...



We all know why neither Forbes and Anderson were fetching this team an asset, and has nothing to do with having a full roster...

I don't want more vets unless we're flipping Patty, Gay and LMA for some sort of star talent. Then you might need a vet (which is the situation Miami found itself in).

But because realistically nobody is touching Patty, Gay and LMA for any kind of star talent, I rather stick with White and Murray for the tank.



I gave you an example of a tanking that worked. DR could've certainly come back earlier, and he didn't and boy ain't we all glad he didn't.

Again, I don't guarantee that tank jobs are immediate team flippers or always work out, but in this league there isn't a whole lot of ways to acquiring top talent. You either pick them in the lottery, sign them with capspace if they want to come to your team or trade for them. That's it.

The Spurs simply do not currently have the assets to pull off such a trade and this FO has been generally allergic to pull off such trades anyways. Capspace is nice, but you have two things going with it: 1) star talent has to want to sign with you, and 2) your rooks eventually will come due for a payday, so that's where some of that money will end up.

Last option is the lottery. And the lottery system we currently have is pretty basic: it rewards teams that suck. The more you suck, the higher the odds for a better reward.



First, just like you said when he joined Miami, Butler wanted to be there. If Jimmy doesn't want to be traded to the Sixers, he doesn't go there, period. Second, those 2 series wins are 2 more series than the Spurs have won in the past 3 seasons combined.



lol no, they have none of that. Keldon looks like a good pick, that's about it. None of the high value contracts outside DeRozan, who is in a contract year, are realistically tradeable. If the team can manage to convince DeRozan to stay, that's where the cap money is going. If they do not, then we're probably out of our best trade asset. While all this happen, we have to hear every summer from that loser LMA how much he'd like to go back to Portland.

On the flipside, we might end up tanking organically after all.

You just constantly move the goal post. It's difficult just to have a normal conversation. I chuckled at your 76ers comment. They won 2 series at the expense as the worst team in history. They were a joke. But because they won more series than Spurs, it's a good strategy. Please, just admit your stance is statistically wrong.

[ElNono]

You just constantly move the goal post. It's difficult just to have a normal conversation. I chuckled at your 76ers comment. They won 2 series at the expense as the worst team in history. They were a joke. But because they won more series than Spurs, it's a good strategy. Please, just admit your stance is statistically wrong.

that's convenient, but the only poster here that keeps saying I said things I did not is you, not me.

Turns out the Sixers are a joke team, yet they did better than the Spurs in the last 3 seasons... but the Spurs are fine and not a joke!!!

[ElNono]

Nah, it would have been done already and Stockholm syndrome DeRozan is even worse with his obsession with all things Raptors. He's been so desperate to go back since the moment he was traded, he's practically begging for it by constantly flirting with them.

I don't expect him to stay with an old and sulking LMA next to him either, tbh... then again, will the Raptors have the cap space to sign him?

[tbdog]

that's convenient, but the only poster here that keeps saying I said things I did not is you, not me.

Turns out the Sixers are a joke team, yet they did better than the Spurs in the last 3 seasons... but the Spurs are fine and not a joke!!!

I quoted you and you moved the goal post. You compared Spurs to Miami sucking properly.

I didn't say the Heat tanked. I said they sucked properly.

That's the goal post moving.

[daslicer]

I don't expect him to stay with an old and sulking LMA next to him either, tbh... then again, will the Raptors have the cap space to sign him?

The Knicks really want him badly. Look for them to sign him.

[TD 21]

I don't expect him to stay with an old and sulking LMA next to him either, tbh... then again, will the Raptors have the cap space to sign him?

I don't think that has anything to do with it. They more than likely aren't interest in extending him and he more than likely would prefer to move on anyway.

They will and as much as they probably don't want to turn back to him, they have a clear need for his skillset and he'd fit well with their core and as a Lowry replacement (he'll probably end up with the 76ers or Clippers).

[Robz4000]

I don't think that has anything to do with it. They more than likely aren't interest in extending him and he more than likely would prefer to move on anyway.

They will and as much as they probably don't want to turn back to him, they have a clear need for his skillset and he'd fit well with their core and as a Lowry replacement (he'll probably end up with the 76ers or Clippers).

I'd love to see the meltdown here and reactions everywhere if DePression goes back to Toronto

[Dejounte]

I'd love to see the meltdown here and reactions everywhere if DePression goes back to Toronto

It would be a bad thing???

[Robz4000]

It would be a bad thing???

Anything that gets him off the team is a good thing, but a lot of posters would melt down if he went back to the team that cucked him.

[Ice009]

Anything that gets him off the team is a good thing, but a lot of posters would melt down if he went back to the team that cucked him.

Yep. This is the reason. It'll show just how mentally weak he is if he goes back to the Raptors. They dumped him and to crawl back to them would be crazy. I'd never do it no matter what amount of money they offered.

[ElNono]

I quoted you and you moved the goal post. You compared Spurs to Miami sucking properly.

That's the goal post moving.

You did quote me, here it is:

Miami at least got something in return for sucking properly, not this half-assed we've been doing as a team for 4 years.

Does that says Miami tanked or sucked properly?

Still waiting for a link/quote where I said we should follow Miami's path... as you claim I said.

[ElNono]

I don't think that has anything to do with it. They more than likely aren't interest in extending him and he more than likely would prefer to move on anyway.

They will and as much as they probably don't want to turn back to him, they have a clear need for his skillset and he'd fit well with their core and as a Lowry replacement (he'll probably end up with the 76ers or Clippers).

Who do you see the Spurs targeting? I hate to say it, but he's indeed our best trade asset right now.

[tbdog]

You did quote me, here it is:



Does that says Miami tanked or sucked properly?

Still waiting for a link/quote where I said we should follow Miami's path... as you claim I said.

You are straight up saying you want SA to suck properly like Miami.

[ElNono]

You are straight up saying you want SA to suck properly like Miami.

Right, which means stop finishing in the 6-8 spot, being first round fodder and getting ty picks, as I explained in that post.

When Miami sucked, they picked up three top-15 picks.

[Blackhaus]

Memphis str8 sucking ass again tonight. Amazing how they just go off on us and then the bed afterwards.

[Dejounte]

Using the words "top 15" on the #13th and #14th picks. You're not clever. Stop being disingenuous as . Oh you can't because it's your schtick.

Let's just say the Spurs picked top 19 then.

The Heat only had two worthwhile picks, Bam and Herro. The book is not closed on Herro. It's possible he won't even be a star.

In comparison, the picks the Spurs have made are: #11 Vassell, #18 Lonnie, and #19 Luka. Averages out to be the 16th pick. Take off Luka and it's the 15th pick.

Herro and Bam's average position is the 14th pick.

This idiot is crying about two whole positions that the Heat drafted from. Claiming they "sucked properly".

As if Bam and Herro are the two players who turned that franchise around oh wait, they're not even competing anymore.

Dumbest poster I know. Tell me, what do you do in real life? I hope it's far from anything where you make any managerial decisions. Because you're dumb as .

[ElNono]

Vassell is the first top 15 pick this team had in 24(!) years. The standard is this team sucking ass and picking in the 20s... which looks like exactly where we're headed this season.

Nobody said you're guaranteed a star if you pick in the top 15, not me anyways. The point is this team doesn't have the market to bring in a star via capspace, nor the assets to bring it via trade.

Since we're playing the lottery to land the coveted star, it makes zero sense this team is doing anything but losing games.

This batch of NASF really turn out to be really dumb, tbh... smh

[Dejounte]

Goes back 24 years...

Last 24 years is sucking ass according to this dumb lmfao

Why the would you go 24 years back when the Spurs have been competing for championships half that time?

You can't fix stupid, not especially when you're as stupid as ElNono