Raise #6 To The Rafters Now!!!

[SequSpur]

we are all a family here. AJ is part of who we cheer for. bury the hate.

This is not family time, it's an internet forum. Maybe that's your problem.

Distinguishing between the two?

[SequSpur]

dude. did i say he was? he deserves to have his jersey in the Spurs rafters and it is. end of story.

but you knew you lost that argument, so now your starting a new one, with his eligibility for the hall of fame.

you sneaky bas . i KNOW your game.

I wasn't referring to you re: Elliott.

Go back and read. You'll figure it out.

Oh, I know I lost this argument because we all know the whiners who cried when Manu was given #6 and then quickly taken back.

I hope it never happens, but it probably will, media pressure. The fans don't give a , at least the majority, that is what the poll said.

[pache100]

just for the record I said Tim and Avery in the original Post. David and Avery were great friends.

Sorry. I misread that.

Being a professional basketball player is more than putting the ball in the bucket, or winning rings or individual awards or helping your community...

Amen.

[Guru of Nothing]

And another guy that gets overlooked is Jaren Jackson....Jaren Jackson was the reason we beat the freaking Lakers...he bombed the living out of them and even though we swept them, those games were cloooooooooose...You go ask a Lakerfan who they remember more from the 99 playoffs...AJ or JJ...And JJ was Mario's project.

You beat me to the Jaren Jackson reference. Remember when everyone ed about his three-year $8 million contract?

JJwas huge in 99!

[whottt]

you wanted Negative attention from that comment, didn't you.

you thrive off negative. i can relate.

Not really...I just have an antagonistic streak in arguments...especially when I cannot even begin to grasp why an undeserving player is elevated so far above the franchise and it's true heroes.

but dude, How DARE you compare a Man of God to Hitler.

I wasn't comparing a man of god to Hitler...I was comparing two disciples of the cult of personality...a valid comparison if you ask me. I'll let you cast the judgements...

Who the do you think u are?

An American who embraces his right to free speech(within reason).

YOU ARE the ONE SPREADING HATE.

Hitler executed Jews. God's people.

I don't recall claiming that AJ executed jews...only that he was able to get some people to make complete asses of themselves through sheer force of personality...like Hitler.

You are persecuting.

I wish I was in a position to persecute AJ...I'd keep his jersey from being retired and then let him go about his business.

You are persecuting AJ like your doesn't stink.

At least I can admit I am an asshole...something AJ can't...and I'm not a bully.

How dare you. i pity you. i really do.

maybe you just don't know better.

Hey...don't kill the messenger...AJ is not Mr.Spur.

maybe you don't realize that you just compared a point guard in the nba that is a Good friend of David Robinson, a fellow man of God to THE WORST ING MURDERER OF THE 20TH CENTURY, THE DEVIL INCARNATE HIMSELF.

what the is wrong with you man?

I do not for one second recall alleging that AJ murdered people.

seriously, what the is wrong with you?

I see the world outside of AJ's ass?

we are all a family here. AJ is part of who we cheer for. bury the hate.

I don't cheer for AJ...I think he's a . He's also the coach of our #1 instate rival. him.

if you don't want his jersey up there, fine. that's your opinion and you en led to it.

Muchos Gracias.

but the sure way to spot someone losing an argument is when they pull out the compare to somone evil card.

theh, meh, and feh!

you are bitter about something.

Yes...I am bitter that people think AJ is deserving of having his jersey retired and are forcing it upon a franchise against the wishes of a sizable portion of Spursfans...
I am also bitter that AJ is continually elevated beyond the scrub he actually was, by AJ fans, at the direct expense of David Robinson's character and on court effort. I am extreeeeeeeeeeemly bitter about that. Extreeeeeeeeeeeeeemly.

Was I not clear about that?

who the are you really? Damon Stoudamire?

Nah Damon Stoudamire was out of line in his mean spirited comments towards AJ...I'm not. He deserves mine. And I already posted the justification for my at ude...when I listed the comments AJ has made, and the things he has done, at the end of his Spurs career, and since leaving. You elect to "tut tut" away his head comments and at ude because of some childhood adulation hangup...I refuse to do that and see AJ for the head he is...

[Gummi]

First of all, Sean Elliott is not a Hall of Famer. Please, he should have his jersey retired but a Hall of Famer is stretching it way too much.

Now to this Avery debate. No, Avery Johnson should not be up there with the Spurs great. Role players shouldn't be given that honor IMO. That's exactly what Avery was, a role player. I don't see the Lakers retiring Derek Fisher's number. He was important to their le runs but not that important.

Please end this stupidity now. I've never understood why some Spurs fans overrate Avery so much. He was a nice role player nothing more.

[Mr. Defense]

I wasn't referring to you re: Elliott.

Go back and read. You'll figure it out.

Oh, I know I lost this argument because we all know the whiners who cried when Manu was given #6 and then quickly taken back.

I hope it never happens, but it probably will, media pressure. The fans don't give a , at least the majority, that is what the poll said.

what do you care who cried? you were the ONE leading the Manu=Manure charge...where's TPark to remind you when i need him...

let me tell you something...WHO IS CRYING NOW?!

NOW THAT #6 WILL BE RAISED.

Check a mirror if you got one.

[Mr. Defense]

This is not family time, it's an internet forum. Maybe that's your problem.

Distinguishing between the two?

well, your en led to your opinion. if you want to be anal here and a nice guy in person, so be it. I choose to have integrity and be the same person no matter where i am. But Godbless you. Like with Vader, I KNOW there is still good in you...

[SequSpur]

whatever dude... pick a screenname and keep it....

[Mr. Defense]

Not really...I just have an antagonistic streak in arguments...especially when I cannot even begin to grasp why an undeserving player is elevated so far above the franchise and it's true heroes.

I wasn't comparing a man of god to Hitler...I was comparing two disciples of the cult of personality...a valid comparison if you ask me. I'll let you cast the judgements...

An American who embraces his right to free speech(within reason).

I don't recall claiming that AJ executed jews...only that he was able to get some people to make complete asses of themselves through sheer force of personality...like Hitler.

I wish I was in a position to persecute AJ...I'd keep his jersey from being retired and then let him go about his business.

At least I can admit I am an asshole...something AJ can't...and I'm not a bully.

Hey...don't kill the messenger...AJ is not Mr.Spur.

I do not for one second recall alleging that AJ murdered people.

I see the world outside of AJ's ass?

I don't cheer for AJ...I think he's a . He's also the coach of our #1 instate rival. him.

Muchos Gracias.

theh, meh, and feh!

Yes...I am bitter that people think AJ is deserving of having his jersey retired and are forcing it upon a franchise against the wishes of a sizable portion of Spursfans...

I am also bitter that AJ is continually elevated beyond the scrub he actually was, by AJ fans, at the direct expense of David Robinson's character and on court effort. I am extreeeeeeeeeeemly bitter about that. Extreeeeeeeeeeeeeemly.

Was I not clear about that?

Nah Damon Stoudamire was out of line in his mean spirited comments towards AJ...I'm not. He deserves mine. And I already posted the justification for my at ude...when I listed the comments AJ has made, and the things he has done, at the end of his Spurs career, and since leaving. You elect to "tut tut" away his head comments and at ude because of some childhood adulation hangup...I refuse to do that and see AJ for the head he is...

Well Whottt, I thankyou for your clarifications, and I apologize for any finger pointing. But I still disagree. And let me ask you this 1 question.

If the Spurs did an ANONYMOUS vote among the players that are already in the rafters as to whether they wanted #6 to join them? Do you think AJ would win? Thanks in advance.

[Mr. Defense]

whatever dude... pick a screenname and keep it....

are you a mod?

your name is not in BOLD at the bottom of the screen?

[SequSpur]

Like many have said, if it happens, it happens ... we can't influence whether AJ's number is retired or not.

However, it'd be lowering the standards of all future jersey retirements, because the arguments in favor of raising #6 to the rafters are flimsy:

1. AJ was the vocal leader of the Spurs. So what? I'm sure we appreciate that, but he couldn't back that up with his game. The vocal leader is effective only if he can put the team on his back for at least a few games. If the criterion is simply being vocal with or without having the talent to match, I'm sure Mark Madsen will feel good about the chances of his jersey being retired some day.

2. AJ had balls, especially in the playoffs. Well, if that's the case, Robert Horry's number will have to be retired by the Spurs, Lakers and Rockets. But that ain't gonna happen. And Mario Elie had way more balls than AJ, with a shooting touch to boot.

3. AJ hit the game-winner against the Knicks. For the love of God, that was one of the most one-sided Finals in the last 20 years. That shot was hardly a series-changer, ala the Horry shot. The Knicks gave a wide berth to the weakest shooter in the team, and he happened to make it. We were leading the series 3-1, and the Knicks couldn't have beaten us even if we rested AJ for the remainder of the series. They had no answer to the twin towers.

The likes of Derek Fisher and Rick Fox have a better case for jersey retirement than AJ, but I doubt if LA is that generous to roleplayers.

Many here are confusing their personal fondness for AJ with AJ's contribution to the Spurs. Let's make a clear separation between the two things. AJ was funny, gritty and a much-beloved underdog. If fan recognition is the criterion for jersey retirement, so be it. But let us not try to justify the jersey retirement with AJ's on-court contributions, because that makes a weak argument.

This basically sums it up. End of story.

[Mr. Defense]

The Spurs do NOT WIN IN 99 WITHOUT AJ.

THAT sums it up.

Without AJ?

No Ellie either.

THAT sums it up.

any questions?

didn't think so.

NEXT!

[SequSpur]

are you a mod?

your name is not in BOLD at the bottom of the screen?

WTF is a mod?

The problem is your jock riding in the forum with different screennames. I don't think it is cool and I don't know who the heck i am replying to and then I find out it is you which makes the point of replying worthless.

Typical mouselike.

Go bowl or play around of golf with me if you want to know the real me... Don't stereotype me from an internet forum or a gtg that you shook my hand at... Also, the redundancy of your short jokes and the references to me being nice at the gtg and an ass on the forum is boring.

When I discuss the Spurs, its my passion, not yours, not his, and not hers.

I didn't invent Manure, the guys that sat in front of me in Sec. 225 did, when Manu was a rookie.

Judith

[whottt]

If the Spurs did an ANONYMOUS vote among the players that are already in the rafters as to whether they wanted #6 to join them? Do you think AJ would win? Thanks in advance.

Hmmm...dunno. I don't think so. I think it would go 3-2 against but I can't really speak for any of those guys.

I do know that last year there was an article in which Drob said he wondered what it would have been like to have played with some of these current Spurs in his prime.

Drob is a nice guy and is always quick to take the blame or throw praise...but I don't think for one second he really believes he was the reason the Spurs didn't win a le, as many Spursfans seem to think. He'll never say that...because he's class personified, but he's also not an idiot and doesn't have any esteem problems...he knows he was good enough to win a le...because he was, and then some. Look at what the man did in his career...

So I can't say for certain how that vote would go...I think Drob and Sean would both vote for him but I am not certain about Silas, Gervin and Moore. And no one is going to badmouth AJ publicly because the mafia would come down on them if they did.

[Mr. Defense]

WTF is a mod?

The problem is your jock riding in the forum with different screennames. I don't think it is cool and I don't know who the heck i am replying to and then I find out it is you which makes the point of replying worthless.

Typical mouselike.

Go bowl or play around of golf with me if you want to know the real me... Don't stereotype me from an internet forum or a gtg that you shook my hand at... Also, the redundancy of your short jokes and the references to me being nice at the gtg and an ass on the forum is boring.

When I discuss the Spurs, its my passion, not yours, not his, and not hers.

I didn't invent Manure, the guys that sat in front of me in Sec. 225 did, when Manu was a rookie.

Judith

okay. fair enough. i like you man. i'll stop the short jokes. you ain't that short anyway man. but you've never made fat jokes about me, so i'll cut the ...even though i had a baddass idea for your pic in a highchair...oh well...que sera sera...

as for my multiple screen names?

which ones?

bigzak25, puppydog, and mr. defense?

if you want to know who someone is. PM them. people create different screen names for a reason. maybe for comedy. maybe because they like the anonymity. for me? it's mostly comedy. i know i ain't funny. but that don't mean i'll stop trying... my sincerest apologies in advance....

but there is an underlying point i feel the need to make.

1st off. your gonna reply anyway you want to. your your own man.

but for me? for myself? i reply to what is said. i really don't care WHO said it. so differing screen names don't mean much to me.

although, i must admit. those spouting hate behind a screenname without giving their true iden y? yeah. that bothers me. like herbivore female. which may or may not be samikeyp. no confirmation or denial as of yet.

and now? i'm after nbadan. and i'll catch him too. wait for it.


tick tock dannyboy.

AND LASTLY, DALLAS IS IN TROUBLE ON THURSDAY.

and tony parker is a sucky point guard with blazing wheels. that is all.

[Mr. Defense]

Hmmm...dunno. I don't think so. I think it would go 3-2 against but I can't really speak for any of those guys.

I do know that last year there was an article in which Drob said he wondered what it would have been like to have played with some of these current Spurs in his prime.

Drob is a nice guy and is always quick to take the blame or throw praise...but I don't think for one second he really believes he was the reason the Spurs didn't win a le, as many Spursfans seem to think. He'll never say that...because he's class personified, but he's also not an idiot and doesn't have any esteem problems...he knows he was good enough to win a le...because he was, and then some. Look at what the man did in his career...

So I can't say for certain how that vote would go...I think Drob and Sean would both vote for him but I am not certain about Silas, Gervin and Moore. And no one is going to badmouth AJ publicly because the mafia would come down on them if they did.

you make very valid points.

i must say, because i jumped on the Spurs bandwagon in 89-90?

I put more into what David and Sean think. So that might be the basis for why I BELIEVE Avery deserves to be up there. In my mind? The vote is 2-0 and unanimous.