Why Detroit's W-L record isn't that impressive

[JamStone]

These days, W-L records mean nothing unlike the old days. Case in point are the Indianapolis Colts who breezed through the reg season at 14-0 before "resting" their superstars for the play-offs. We all know where they ended up. Just because the Pistons beat up a terribly weak Eastern Conf. and rack up wins does not necessarily mean the league should just hand them the LOB trophy.

Pistons' record v. Western Conference: 19-3, including 10-2 on the road at WC cities.

People should stop making the argument that "the Eastern Conference is weak and that's why the Pistons have such a good record" because it's obvious that the Pistons have played well against the Western Conference teams as well. It's really a weak argument when you realize the Pistons have even played more games against the Western Conference than the Eastern Conference. And, twelve of the 22 games against the Western Conference have been on the road for the Pistons. Stop using the Eastern Conference is weak argument. It's a really poor argument. Really, really poor.

The Pistons only have eight games against the Western Conference left, and five of them are at the Palace.


Detroit against the Western Conference so far this season, all wins, except for the bolded games:

@sac
@phoenix
@portland
denver
@houston
@dallas L
@golden state
@la clippers
@utah L
sacramento
@memphis
portland
golden state
san antonio
seattle
utah L
@no/oklahoma city
@san antonio
houston
@minnesota
memphis
la lakers

[JamStone]

I think the MVP race right now is led by Kobe Bryant ...

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Steve Nash
3. LeBron James
4. Chauncey Billups


As mentioned, if the Pistons end up winning over 70 games and Chauncey maintains his pace, he will have a shot. I still think by the end of the season, the race will be between Kobe and LeBron. I even think Dirk Nowitzki may end up being a lot closer than he is now. That's just my own gut feeling. I'm a huge Pistons fan and I really admire how Chauncey Billups plays the game. But, with the talent around him and the chemistry on his team, I don't think he is a true legitimate candidate for League MVP. It would be great for him to win it, but I think there are more deserving candidates, including some I haven't even mentioned, like Allen Iverson and Elton Brand.

[JamStone]

the best thing that could happen to Spurs is Pistons win 70+ games and come into the finals expecting the trophy to be handed to them.

Because the Pistons are the type of team to take their opponent lightly????

Over the last three years, the Pistons have experienced pretty much everything a team could in the post-season. And, especially how last season ended, I don't think they will take anything for granted or go into the post-season or an NBA finals (should they be fortunate enough to get that far) "expecting the trophy." This isn't an inexperienced playoff team. This isn't a team made up of egotistical, stat-hungry players who expect to be given anything. They have earned everything they've accomplished over the last three years. And, that includes losing in the finals last year. How someone could claim that the Pistons will expect anything if they win over 70 games is to essentially admit they don't know much about this Detroit Pistons team and how they carry themselves. Confidence is one thing, and yes the Pistons players have that. But, lack of focus or disrespect of opponent is not something this Pistons team is going to demonstrate just because they win a few more regular season games than the other NBA playoff teams. That's such a ridiculously naive statement, I can't believe a Spurs fan would write it.

[nkdlunch]

Because the Pistons are the type of team to take their opponent lightly????

Over the last three years, the Pistons have experienced pretty much everything a team could in the post-season. And, especially how last season ended, I don't think they will take anything for granted or go into the post-season or an NBA finals (should they be fortunate enough to get that far) "expecting the trophy." This isn't an inexperienced playoff team. This isn't a team made up of egotistical, stat-hungry players who expect to be given anything. They have earned everything they've accomplished over the last three years. And, that includes losing in the finals last year. How someone could claim that the Pistons will expect anything if they win over 70 games is to essentially admit they don't know much about this Detroit Pistons team and how they carry themselves. Confidence is one thing, and yes the Pistons players have that. But, lack of focus or disrespect of opponent is not something this Pistons team is going to demonstrate just because they win a few more regular season games than the other NBA playoff teams. That's such a ridiculously naive statement, I can't believe a Spurs fan would write it.

bla,bla,bla taking opponents lightly could happen to anybody. Don't come in here with your "that would never happen to my great perfect Piston players..." bull . I even would be worried if Spurs won 70+ going into the playoffs so take your homer glasses off and face the facts. it's a possibility.

look what happened to their stupid re ed belts, they got them shoved in their face.

[1Parker1]

I think the MVP race right now is led by Kobe Bryant ...

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Steve Nash
3. LeBron James
4. Chauncey Billups

I don't think lebron should get the nod over Chaucey, but otherwise I agree with your list. My argument against Billups is that he's playing on a team that already has the best starting 5 in the NBA...I don't think he neccesarily makes his team-mates better, like Nash. But he does have the clutchness factor which has been evident in Pistons close 4th quarter games this season.

My vote would go to either Kobe or Steve. Kobe, only if he gets the Lakers to a winning record and the playoffs. Otherwise, it has to go to Nash. I watched the Cavs vs. Suns game on Sunday, and even though the Suns lost, I found it amazing that the team looks exactly the way they did last season when they won 60+ games, despite the fact that they have an entirely different cast of players. I think that's a testament to Nash...I didn't think he really deserved the award last year, but this year I can see it. My third choice would be Billups...esp if the Pistons manage to win 70.

[JamStone]

So, Pistons fans shouldn't worry if the Pistons only won 68 or 69 regular season games? For some reason, if an NBA team wins 70 games, they all of a sudden become too over confident and think they are en led to the trophy even before the playoffs start? Bull . What the is the significance of winning 70 games to the psyche? So, if the Spurs were on pace for 70, you would hope that they fell short of that and had an average second half of the regular season so they wouldn't be too overconfident?

How is losing game 7 of the NBA finals getting the "re ed" belts shoved back in their face? I would say getting knocked off in the first round of the playoffs would be getting those belts shoved back in their face. Being tied late in the 7th game of the finals and losing to a former championship team is hardly getting put in one's place. But, some of you Spurs fans still don't get that. Your own perception of last year's finals was that the Spurs swept the Pistons in four games by an average of 50 points. Some of you really feel that way.

Incredible.

[birdy219]

"How is losing game 7 of the NBA finals getting the "re ed" belts shoved back in their face? I would say getting knocked off in the first round of the playoffs would be getting those belts shoved back in their face."


I think that they mean that it showed some arrogance to walk around with those belts like that and maybe over-confidence could become a factor if the Pistons reached the 70 wins mark. Most if not all Spurs fans recognize that the Pistons are playing amazing basketball. I can only hope and pray that my Spurs will be ready come the "real" season.

[WayDowntownBang]

look what happened to their stupid re ed belts, they got them shoved in their face.

I don't think overconfidance was what caused them to 'drop the belts', so to speak. It was playing a better team, and losing to the better team in their house in the Finals.

This is why this is so important to the Pistons. They're going for home court advantage all the way through the playoffs. Even the strongest, most die-hard Spurs fans can admit (or at least they should) that if Game 7 was in Detroit last year, anything could have happened the other way around.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

These days, W-L records mean nothing unlike the old days. Case in point are the Indianapolis Colts who breezed through the reg season at 14-0 before "resting" their superstars for the play-offs. We all know where they ended up. Just because the Pistons beat up a terribly weak

Everything riding on one game is a completely different format then a 5 or 7 G series. There is no logical way to compare the NFL to the NBA...

In a one-and-done format, the best team doesn't always win. In a 7 G series, the best team always wins IMO...

[ChaunceyBBBBillups]

Hi Chauncey!
Well I love the pistons alot. I love to see them staying healthy and I love their chemistry. But look at other teams. ALL teams except the pistons have added new pieces and still trying to gel. ALL elite teams except the pistons have had their starter out for days, weeks, even months. I say the record of those teams like the Spurs, the Suns and the Dallas impresses me more. Imagine Billups goes down or big ben goes down(TOUCH WOOD!), their record would be worse than the Spurs'.
Their stable conditions are very impressive but their record is not, because they are great team that no any other teams except the Spurs can beat them. I'm not y but they can really beat any teams if they don't beat themselves.


I PRAY EVERYDAY FOR MY PISTONS THAT GOD WILL KEEP THEM AWAY FROM INJURIES.

Hi Tanya......

Tanya, I know what it means, but to me that doesn't matter at all. Why can't someone be impressed by a team who has played together for a long time? And c'mon, give Dumars some props, he put together a of a team. The Detroit Pistons are very impressive because they have a 37-5 record. Nuff said.

[ChaunceyBBBBillups]

Just curious: You Pistons fans think Billups has a serious chance to win the league MVP award this season?

No, I know he's not going to win it.

[Rynospursfan]

As a Spurs fan I think he has a serious chance at winning the MVP.

[Tanya]

Hi Tanya......

Tanya, I know what it means, but to me that doesn't matter at all. Why can't someone be impressed by a team who has played together for a long time? And c'mon, give Dumars some props, he put together a of a team. The Detroit Pistons are very impressive because they have a 37-5 record. Nuff said.

Yeah Dumars is smart, very smart! He built a best team without a big name.
But don't take it serious if I say their record is not impressive to me, it's just my opinion. It doesn't impress me because I already have known they can do it, especially with the new coach. They still have solid defense and now are liberated from the offense. This team is more unpredictable now. They can win blow out games, they can win close games, they can win with defense and they can win with offense. So they really have a chance to chase the 70win record if they all stay healthy.

[Tanya]

Just curious: You Pistons fans think Billups has a serious chance to win the league MVP award this season?

I think Nash will win it.
But in my opinion it's not fair that people think Billups doesn't deserve it because he is surrounded by great players. The Suns do have good players just like the Pistons. They got some big names they got some All-star players. If Billups plays in the Suns and Nash plays in the Pistons, I think they can still do a great job on these teams. But just that would never happen so people would never know if Billups has the ability that Nash has. They are quite similar that they can both assist, make big shots, make 3's, have good FT%, make teammates better and they are both cool and smart. The Pistons were very good but Billups makes this team amazing this year.

[magicman]

36-5 at the midway point looks impressive to most which also triggers media hype of a possible 70-win season for the Pistons. However, the Pistons' current success does not imho even come close to the 1995-1996 Chicago Bulls team. Why? The Bulls dominated the league with powerhouse teams in the eastern conference such as the Knicks,Orlando,Miami,etc. - all capable of winning over 55 games. Even the west was loaded with the Sonics,Jazz,Rockets,etc. The fact that the Bulls had to play very good EC rivals four times per year and still notched 72 wins is ultra-impressive. Now, the Pistons have token resistance from their traditional rivals - the Heat are not where they should be, the Pacers are in a dunghole,the Cavs are still learning,the Nets are slightly better than .500.So basically, the Pistons get easy wins as they are taking advantage of their rivals' misfortunes. Our Spurs btw are not only plagued by injuries but we play the other heavy contenders (Phoenix,Dallas,Memphis,Denver,LAC) four times a year! Let's face it, compe ion in the WC is much more intense compared to what Detroit has to deal with since the Eastern conference has the bulk of the league's cellar-dwellers.

Well genius in case you haven't looked lately, Detroit beat the spurs 2x, and both times was by 15 points. Not to mention the spurs losing to New Orleans and Atlanta, so before you make your ignorant claims wake up and smell the coffee. And those "easy wins" your talking about Detroit has this record with 90 percent of their west coast trips out of the way. So we beat down the western teams along with the eastern teams. Your crying and excuse's about the spurs injuries is a joke, trying to make excuses is worse. What excuse do you have for the Spurs being beat down twice by 15 points both times and outrebounded by over 20 both times??? Was the sun in their eyes, maybe the planets were all aligned, or maybe your just mentally challanged. Detroit hasn't lost to Atlanta like the Spurs or the Hornets, so maybe the Spurs need to learn to beat the teams they should because no matter who has been placed before Detroit this year East or West 85 percent of the time they have won. So pull your head outta your rear end and stop your whinning like a little bioootch. Your Spurs can't even handle their own division.

[magicman]

bla,bla,bla taking opponents lightly could happen to anybody. Don't come in here with your "that would never happen to my great perfect Piston players..." bull . I even would be worried if Spurs won 70+ going into the playoffs so take your homer glasses off and face the facts. it's a possibility.

look what happened to their stupid re ed belts, they got them shoved in their face.

Homer Glass's lmfaoooooooo you have a cheech picture enough said, twit.
Ignorance is bliss learn basketball before you try to speak on it.

[Obstructed_View]

Wow, the Pistons are the new Mavericks. They are crowing about regular season wins and disparaging the Spurs' division when the Pistons have been feasting on the weakest conference in the NBA in a decade. I hope Billups wins the MVP. By the way it will be the "regular season" MVP. I'll take the Finals MVP and be happy, thanks.

[himat]

the best thing that could happen to Spurs is Pistons win 70+ games and come into the finals expecting the trophy to be handed to them.

i'm very sure the pistons know nothing is going to be handed to them. they know the spurs are a great team.

[himat]

Wow, the Pistons are the new Mavericks. They are crowing about regular season wins and disparaging the Spurs' division when the Pistons have been feasting on the weakest conference in the NBA in a decade. I hope Billups wins the MVP. By the way it will be the "regular season" MVP. I'll take the Finals MVP and be happy, thanks.

They are not crowning anything yet buddy. If the pistons screw up in the playoffs then say that.

[Obstructed_View]

They are not crowning anything yet buddy. If the pistons screw up in the playoffs then say that.

Just so you know, I said "crowing", which means making lots of noise like a crow that just found a shiny object. I don't think the Pistons are going to screw up in the playoffs. I think they are going to get beat by a better team.

[SpursWoman]

Detroit hasn't lost to Atlanta like the Spurs or the Hornets, so maybe the Spurs need to learn to beat the teams they should because no matter who has been placed before Detroit this year East or West 85 percent of the time they have won.

Except for those mighty contending Jazz...so nanny-nanny-boo-boo.



WTF?

[mavsfan1000]

lmao. The spurs are not the better team. The pistons should win against whoever they play. The spurs should look at all the teams they have to beat to get to the pistons.

[Darrin]

What bothers me the most about this post isn't the belief that the Detroit Pistons "aren't that impressive" because the regular season isn't that impressive. It's believing that the Bulls had it tougher than the Pistons.

From 1987-1995, the NBA added 6 teams (Minnesota, Miami, Charlotte, Orlando, Vancouver, and Toronto) or somewhere between 72-90 on-court jobs. Looking at those teams, only Vancouver and Minnesota are in the Western Conference. Looking at those teams and projecting at least 3 years out of contention for each one, that spans the entire reign of the Chicago Bulls (1990-1998).

Kevin Garnett had been drafted in 1995, the first High School draftee in the NBA since 1975, Moses Malone. Malone wasn't even drafted into the NBA; he was an ABA draft pick. Gheorge Muresan, Dragan Tarlac, Toni Kukoc, Dejan Bodiroga, Eurelijus Zukauskas, Yinka Dare, Andrei Fetisov, William Njoku, Zeljko Rebraca - the NBA was at the beginning of its rush to international talent. Hakeem Olajuwon, Drazen Petrovic, Dikembe Mutombo, and the 1992 Dream Team had opened the door, and suddenly GMs were starting to use it. It would take time for franchises to catch up - bridge the language barrier and having the infrastructure to support these players. There wouldn't be an immediate-impact international player until 2001 - Pau Gasol.

The only team entering 1995-96 season of expansion franchises to have anywhere near the kind of success of the Bulls were the Orlando Magic (1994-95 Eastern Conference Champions).

In the 1995-96 season, the Miami Heat were not contenders. Pat Riley had just left the Knicks to become Head Coach and General Manager of the team; Tim Hardaway was still in Golden State. Don Nelson was hired to take Riley's place in New York, and quit some 20 games into the season amid high expectations and deflated results. His assistant, Jeff Van Gundy, coached the rest of the season. The Indiana Pacers, who played in the Conference Finals the year before, were essentially the same team they had been in 1995, but Reggie Miller would suffer a scratched cornea in the last week of the season heading into the playoffs.

The Conference Standings:

1. Chicago Bulls - 72-10
2. Orlando Magic - 60-22
3. Indiana Pacers - 52-30
4. New York Knicks - 47-35
5. Cleveland Cavaliers - 47-35
6. Atlanta Hawks - 46-36
7. Detroit Pistons - 46-36
8. Miami Heat - 42-40

40-win teams: Charlotte,
30-win teams: New Jersey, Washington, Boston
20-win teams: Milwaukee, Toronto
Teen-win teams: Philadelphia

With exception to the Orlando Magic - Penny, Shaq, Nick Anderson, Scott Skiles, Horace Grant - the Chicago Bulls did not have a true contender in the Conference. The 1996 playoffs were filled with inexperienced teams (Detroit's first appearance since 1992, Miami's first appearance since 1993, Atlanta's first season with Dikembe Mutombo) and aging or injured teams (Indiana without Reggie Miller, Cleveland with Gerald Wilkens and Brad Daugherty retired and Mark Price in Washington).


1996-97's 69-wins are much more impressive, but not that much better:

1. Chicago - 69-13
2. Miami - 61-21
3. New York - 57-25
4. Atlanta - 54-28
5. Detroit - 54-28
6. Orlando - 45-37
7. Washington - 44-38
8. Cleveland - 42-40

30-win teams: Indiana, Milwaukee
20-win teams: New Jersey, Philadelphia
Teen-win teams: Boston

The West was so bad the Minnesota Timberwolves (40-42), Phoenix Suns (40-42), and LA Clippers (36-46) all made the playoffs.

You're right; the Pistons aren't impressive...yet. The Pistons were 11-2 to start 1996-97, 34-12 at at the All-Star break, and hit a high mark of 47-17 in 1996-97. Doug Collins, Grant Hill, and Joe Dumars were all at the mid-season exhibition. Terry Mills, Lindsey Hunter, and Grant Hill had been named players of the week. They set an NBA record for fewest turnovers (1,041). Their road record (24-17) was only surpassed in team history by only the 1988-89 Champions (25-16). They set a franchise mark (since broken) for opponents points per game (89.9). Grant Hill would finish behind Michael Jordan and Karl Malone in Most Valuable Player voting. The 54 wins of the team was the most since 1989-90, and has yet to be surpassed.

However, they would finish the season 7-11 and had rumors in the last two weeks of the season that Collins was about to be fired. The Pistons won their first road playoff game since 1991 with their victory in Game two of their playoff series vs. the Hawks, and won game three (with Game 4 at home) to come one win away from winning their first playoff series since 1991. The Pistons fizzle, however, and the season is never spoken of again.

Ask an angry Wings fan about the 1995 season, when Detroit set the NHL's record for winning percentage. They are more likely to be able to make mention of 1996-97, 1997-98, and 2001-02 when they were Stanley Cup Champions.

That's why most of the Pistons fans I know agree with me when I say the NBA regular season for this team is a full six months of foreplay, but it's been some great foreplay. We have adopted the same motto of the last team to win 70 games: "It don't mean a thing without the ring."

In 1988-89, the Pistons were haunted by a seven game series against the defending-champion Los Angeles Lakers. They set a franchise mark of 63 wins, and steam-rolled to a 15-2 postseason, an NBA record at the time (2000-01 Lakers went 15-1). The team felt they had given up a great chance to win a Championship, and came an Isiah Thomas' twisted ankle, a shadow-foul called on Bill Laimbeer, and an errant Joe Dumars runner from being the 1987-88 NBA Champions. Draw that comparision between the results of the 2004-05 Pistons season and what's happening this year.

"It don't mean a thing without the ring."

But if the Pistons win the 2005-06 le, and win the most games of any Champion since the Bulls (anything over 67 would break the 1999-00 Lakers record), and you're still saying "it's not that impressive," I'll be back to match you point for point.

[jochhejaam]

Just curious: You Pistons fans think Billups has a serious chance to win the league MVP award this season?

Depending on how he and the Pistons finish I'd say he could have a good chance of finishing in the top 3

[Kori Ellis]

lmao. The spurs are not the better team. The pistons should win against whoever they play. The spurs should look at all the teams they have to beat to get to the pistons.

So far this season, the Pistons are the best team in the NBA.

But the Spurs have been playing virtually all season with (arguably) their two best players injured. Manu has been injured four times this year and missed a lot of games. And Tim has been playing hurt all year.

Call it excuses if you want, but that's reality. To call the Pistons the team to beat in the playoffs when it's not even the All-Star break is ridiculous. As cliche as it sounds, there's a lot of basketball yet to be played.

For all we know, the Spurs and Pistons could both sputter due to injuries or other reasons, and another team could emerge the frontrunner.

People here need to slow their roll.