Interesting thread. Love the heated discussions. I'll see if I can add a little to it!
In regards to Flip and his history, I've always felt that he's kinda gotten a raw deal. People love to talk about Flip's playoff record, and how often he failed to get out of the first round. I think he unduly takes too much of the blame. The fact is, that his teams were supposed to lose those first round series. Every year (I'm going off of memory, and not stats, so someone may be able to correct me about possibly one or two years) his Twolves faced a superior opponent. The lone exception, was 2003-2004 in which he went to the WCF. Of course you'd like a team to occasionally beat the odds and win in an upset, but IMO the way NBA playoffs are setup, the better team almost always wins. That's why I love the 5 and 7 game series as opposed to a "one and done" as in the NFL. The better team is supposed to win. And quite frankly, the Twolves were not the better team.
I personally lay more of the blame on Garnett. I lay blame on the lower quality of supporting casts (not all years...but some years). I blame McHale for being a poor GM. The Joe Smith fiasco. The drafting and trading of Starbury. I blame the lack of chemistry. It always seemed that they had 2 new starters every year. Look at how many different players the T-Wolves had in the last 10 years. It's amazing how many players have come and gone. The team never seemed to have alot of consistency, due to injury or at ude, year in, year out. Perhaps some of that is excuse making, but IMO they are all factors that led to them not being great playoff teams.
I clearly remember everyone dogging Garnett for not putting the team on his shoulders. Not wanting the ball when it counted. I am a HUGE Garnett supporter. He is my second favorite player after Billups. But I have to say that as a super star player who had an obscene contract, he was supposed to get it done. I don't know how much of that you can really put on his coach. Much like we've seen from Lebron this year recently, he wimped out when the pressure was on.
People talk about Flip and his lack of defense. I may agree with some of those arguments. I am not a fan of the zone. Flip obviously believes in it. I think there are times when it can be a benefit, if for nothing else than to offer a different look. I question though, based on the players he had, would a different scheme really have mattered much? I don't know. The origional poster made a statement that Flip didn't install the zone in Detroit, but in fact he has. You don't see it alot. The players are still learning it. The players are so confident in their man D skills. But each week, we see more and more of it being used..... at times. I think at the end of the day, incorporating it, will help us.
While I say Flip has taken too much blame through the years, I also think he is getting a little too much credit this year. (And I believe he'd be the first person to agree w/ me) The bottom line is that the Pistons are a Championship tested and proven team. The trust, chemistry and skills were already there. Sure, Flip has opened up the offense, but these guys already know how to play. They already know how to win. They are truly driven this year. The loss to the Spurs hurt. All of the credit/love that LB received hurt. They do want to prove that THEY are the reason for their success, and not their coach.
Before the season started, all I heard was how much the Pistons would struggle. Their defensive intensity would not be the same. Flip was going to screw up our chemistry.
People say that Flip adopted a great team, making him look good. The exact same can be said about LB. Our D didn't come from LB. If anything, Carlisle deserves soooo much more credit than he will ever receive. He brought the D to the "D". LB simply adopted a great team. IMO Carlisle would also have also won the Championship if he was still our boss man. LB had never won anyhting in the NBA till he came to Detroit. The players won the ring/belt!! not LB. Likewise, this year, the players are responsible for their success, not the coach.
I love how Flip has allowed the players to play this year. I think many Piston fans got frustrated w/ the LB era. We knew that the players had more offensive ability. We hated the scoring slumps. Flip has simply let them do their thing. Offensively, Rip and Chauncey are showing what they've always had the ability to do. It's definetly a much more fun team to watch.
The biggest thing that Flip has brought to the Pistons is the chance for the bench players to play through mistakes. Arroyo and Delfino now can play without looking over their shoulders if they make an error. I've found it interesting to watch the bench development this year. Delfino has SKILLS. Arroyo, at times, is one of the best passers in the game. Evans has been a pleasant suprise. The problem is, that they don't neccesarily play well together.
Early in the year, Flip would sit all the starters, and insert all the bench players late in games. Now, he tries to play the bench players in conjustion with the starters. Delfino has especially flourished due to this. Arroyo..........quite often, sucks. In a fast break, he can make an unbleievable no-look pass. In a half court, he dribbles out the clock. Flip recognized this, and has tended to play Evans and Delfino alongside Chauncey. He is better able to create for these guys allowing them to develop better tendencies and skills. Likewise, he has played Arroyo more often w/ Rip. With Rips' constant movement, it has allowed Arroyo to function better in a half court setting.(playing the bench more w/ the starters has also led to more minutes per game for the starters)
Again I say, Flip's biggest influence to our team has been bench development. And it will pay huge dividends as the season delves into the playoffs. And I cannot wait for Hunter to return!!! We will consistently go 10 dep....something that was unheard of under LB.
Basically, Flip has been a nice change of pace for the Pistons. We needed to flex our offense muscle a little. He's given us that opportunity. Wheteher it be with Flip or LB or Carlisle, we still have 5 great players. We have 5 players that know how to win. They are tested. They are hungry. Flip will not neccesarily win or lose any games for us this year. If we are lucky enough to make the Finals, it will not be because of Flip. If we lose in the Finals, I do not think we will have Flip to blame.
In contrast to that, I personally do blame LB for our loss in game 7. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, LB's decision to sit Sheed and Dice, and allow Prince to (attempt to) guard TD cost us the game. Yes, Sheed ed up in game 5. But game 7 is where you give your everything. There are no second chances. In that instance, LB screwed us.
To answer the basic question of the thread, I do not think Flip will really have any serious impact on how the Pistons do in the playoffs. If anything, I'll say it will be a positive in that the atmosphere is better. The difference is having between a "players coach" and a hard ass. IMO younger untested players tend to need the hard ass, whereas the veteran players do better w/ a players coach who allows the players to be themselves and do their thing. Give me Flip over LB any day.
Alot has been mentioned about minutes played. I personally do not remember Piston fans moaning about fatigue due to the minutes played by our players. Much like FP22 stated, I recall alot of concern due to how many "playoff" minutes the guys had to play..in particular Tay and Ben. But that had more to do w/ 6 and 7 game series as opposed to regular season minutes. I might have simply ignored it, as it sounds too much like excuse making to me. I don't know. So I cannot answer for those people. I will say though that I have no qualms with our starters getting 35-38 minutes a game.
If you look at any team in the league, you will find their "star" player or players getting 35+ minutes every game. Detroit is different from many teams in that it has 5 pseudo stars as their starters. All 5 guys rank consistently as being in the top 6 at their respective positions. You'd typically expect a top 6 player at any position to play 35+minutes. Teams like the Spurs,Nets,Warriors,Dallas,Suns,Heat,Cavs,Bucks may be able to boast 3 such players, but I cannot name a single team other than Detroit that has more than 3 players that should get those type of minutes.
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