Reports say Nash earns NBA MVP award

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Kobe hasn't played like this all season. It's an aberration. Jackson had a good talk with him and showed in the 3 50 Point games he had against the Suns that ended in Losses. Kobe is not stupid. But he's a bit of an egomanica loon, and he has not maintained a consistent unselfish game his whole career. He's biting his tongue right now because he's not going to take for granted a post-season, that he eeked by in thanks to a water-down league this season and a defensively challenged team.

I'm not sold on Kobe. He's a great talent. An amazing opponent, but I can't buy into this guy.

[RonMexico]

RonMexico
well said

Thanks, man. I wasn't trying to be mean at all (and I left this final paragraph out by accident), but I was basically saying in a sarcastic manner that the Spurs have tons of good parts that go together to make up a champion, and I would much rather receive no individual awards (although Bowen deserves DPOY this year more than ever before), and be at the top of everyone's short list to be the NBA Champion (which SA and Detroit are). The Spurs and the Pistons are the at the top of the league because they are strong overall teams - a pinnacle the Suns undoubtedly hope to achieve. However, you can't point to a specific link in the chain on each of those teams that is the most valuable to his team's success (Mavs aren't even part of this conversation because despite their record, they still have a non-clutch shoot-first PG and a 7-footer that gets dominated by a 6'6" defender) - all the pieces on SA and Detroit work together to win these games.

Nash, on the other hand, is the seemingly most important link on another "team-based" organization and I think that's why people continually vote for him for the award. Comparisons to Stockton, Bird, MJ, Moses Malone are irrelevant based on changes in gameplay, eras, and the types of supporting casts they had around them (Stockton always had Karl Malone - Nash had a motley crew of players rejected from other teams and no Amare this year).

[Darrin]

Let's not paint the Spurs like they are without postseason hardware (without counting les). Pop has been named Coach of the Year and TD is an MVP twice (despite Jason Kidd probably deserving it in 2001-02).

So far, the only thing the Suns have won the Spurs haven't is a Most Improved Player award.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

Thanks, man. I wasn't trying to be mean at all (and I left this final paragraph out by accident), but I was basically saying in a sarcastic manner that the Spurs have tons of good parts that go together to make up a champion, and I would much rather receive no individual awards (although Bowen deserves DPOY this year more than ever before), and be at the top of everyone's short list to be the NBA Champion (which SA and Detroit are). The Spurs and the Pistons are the at the top of the league because they are strong overall teams - a pinnacle the Suns undoubtedly hope to achieve. However, you can't point to a specific link in the chain on each of those teams that is the most valuable to his team's success (Mavs aren't even part of this conversation because despite their record, they still have a non-clutch shoot-first PG and a 7-footer that gets dominated by a 6'6" defender) - all the pieces on SA and Detroit work together to win these games.

Nash, on the other hand, is the seemingly most important link on another "team-based" organization and I think that's why people continually vote for him for the award. Comparisons to Stockton, Bird, MJ, Moses Malone are irrelevant based on changes in gameplay, eras, and the types of supporting casts they had around them (Stockton always had Karl Malone - Nash had a motley crew of players rejected from other teams and no Amare this year).

I think Nash deserves the award, his unselfish play is great and needs to be promoted for the up and coming players. Sure I don't care to see him lead his team to the championship, because he has to do it against the Spurs. I give him props because he's a premiere player, and it's a bit of a cheap shot with the most "undeserving 2-Time MVP" complaints. It's not like him winning it is gonna take that away from the past players. I think Kobe can win MVP some time down the road, he can have it who cares, but I don't care to see him win it off personal stats all season ignoring the scrubs, then finally he starts playing WITH the team on the first game of the postseason. Nash has done that with two teams in a row, with Nash all you have to be is a professional baller and you'll be avg 15 ppg each.

[Darrin]

Kobe hasn't played like this all season. It's an aberration. Jackson had a good talk with him and showed in the 3 50 Point games he had against the Suns that ended in Losses. Kobe is not stupid. But he's a bit of an egomanica loon, and he has not maintained a consistent unselfish game his whole career. He's biting his tongue right now because he's not going to take for granted a post-season, that he eeked by in thanks to a water-down league this season and a defensively challenged team.

I'm not sold on Kobe. He's a great talent. An amazing opponent, but I can't buy into this guy.

It's an aberration I have seen in 10 Lakers games this season, including a win to the Pistons. Let him be an egomaniac, as long as it doesn't hurt his team, I don't care. We're not judging MVP by who we'd like to have lunch with.

Like I said before, I don't like him. I respect him as the MVP he is, though.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

We're not judging MVP by who we'd like to have lunch with.

Hey. Don't put words in my mouth, guy. Favoring a player for MVP, because I see him as more "unselfish" than other players has nothing to do with me liking their personality. I never liked Michael Jordan, but could see him for his greatness on the court. I don't like what Kobe does on the court at times, and I think that's why he shouldn't be MVP. I just think it's better for a sport that's meant to be played for the team.

Obviously, we disagree. Your opinion is for Kobe, that's fine. Mine's for Nash. But don't digress, allude to other things, and act like I'm saying stuff I'm not.

You've done that in the last couple posts.

[Darrin]

You've done that in the last couple posts.

My apologies. Sometimes I get carried away.

[ManuTim_best of Fwiendz]

My apologies. Sometimes I get carried away.

No prob. I guess it's that time of year again in sports. Whenever they hand out the awards the sentiments start flyin'.

We're gonna be hearing it all this week.

[LEONARD]

Why does team record matter???

If Amare comes back next year and avg's 35 pts, 13 reb's, and 4 blocks a game, but the Suns win the same # of games as they did this year, he can't be the MVP based on many of the arguments in this thread...

[Obstructed_View]

Why does team record matter???

If Amare comes back next year and avg's 35 pts, 13 reb's, and 4 blocks a game, but the Suns win the same # of games as they did this year, he can't be the MVP based on many of the arguments in this thread...

Team record mattered a of a lot to voters for Nash last year because the Suns happened to have the best record.

Everybody predicted that the Suns would suck last year because they'd won 29 games the year before. When the Suns did well, they gave Nash the MVP rather than admit that their predictions were stupid. This year, everyone predicted the Suns would suck because Amare is out. When the Suns did well, they gave Nash the MVP rather than admit that their predictions were stupid.

[Scobe]

I like Nash. Have no problem with him because he makes great plays and gets others involved in a way that few PG do these days. Sort of like Bob Cousey with long hair. Congratulations to him. MVP and an imminent postseason defeat for two straight years.

Like I said, I like Nash but he got absolutely abused by Kobe in game 2 on that dunk. I haven't seen anyone get that abused in quite a while, can't wait to see that one on a poster. Talk about finding yourself at the wrong place at the wrong time.

[word]

Like I said, I like Nash but he got absolutely abused by Kobe in game 2 on that dunk.

Which was a clear charging call. Refs made two bad calls last night against the Suns, at critical times. The first loose ball non-foul and not calling Koby on the charge. With less than two minutes left, that made a difference of 5 points and two possessions we don't know what would have happened.

Anyway....I thought phoenix was DONE with Amare out. Wouldn't even make the playoffs. Nash kept 'em in the hunt.

And above all I just like watching him play. He's magic Johnson like with the assists and a a three point shooter. Recall the Dallas game 5 and the three ? Sure Terry left him for the three but he busted it from deep.

Then of course Dirk went off on Jason Terry causing much controversy because they were going into OT and that's not the time for that. Mind you, Dirk had a right to be mad since he's brought 'em back from oblivion but still....

You move on to win the OT. Nowitski's leadership skills have always been a question mark to me.

At that point in time, in a semi-playoff game, you deal with it, go to the huddle, pump up your team, tell Terry to 'fuggit about it' and move on to win the F'in game....

That's the diff between Nash and Nowitzki.

Koby ?...Don't get me started.....

[Scobe]

Which was a clear charging call. Refs made two bad calls last night against the Suns, at critical times. The first loose ball non-foul and not calling Koby on the charge. With less than two minutes left, that made a difference of 5 points and two possessions we don't know what would have happened.

...

I disagree there. The foul on Nash was absolutely the right call because Nash was almost directly under the basket and well within the semi-circle that the NBA has established for taking charges. The only way that a player can take a charge inside of that semi-circle is if the opposing player uses either his hands or arms/legs to push the defender out of the way. Nash just got caught under the basket and had no choice but to foul there.

And Odom just made a great hustle play. He was willing to dive for the ball while the Suns guy made a half assed attempt at it. There was no foul there, Odom just beat him to the ball because he wanted it more. Great hustle play. Hustle plays like that win close games, especially in the P.Os.

[RonMexico]

Like I said, I like Nash but he got absolutely abused by Kobe in game 2 on that dunk.

Yeah, that was an obvious charge, and one that I'd expect Joey Crawford to make in that situation - I'm kind of disappointed in the officiating towards the end of the game. The Suns lost by 6 points and there were 3 different times where Kobe had 2 pts that shouldn't have counted -- the dunk on the charge (2), where Lamar Odom obviously passed to himself and there was no call on the travel (Kobe jumper), and Kobe "beating" the shot clock when the ball was still in his hand (I know this because I did slow motion on TiVo to see if he had gotten if off and he hadn't).

The thing that pissed me off a lot was that Doug Collins never stopped nutting all over Kobe that entire night and then goes on to comment "now the Lakers lead the series 1-1; maybe we'll see an all LA second round!!!" If you've had a losing record as a coach, you shouldn't be allowed in the booth - period. He nuts all over Kobe and they don't even recognize that he might have gotten the shot off after the clock expired - much less whether he was already out of bounds when he made that little tip pass falling down... the only time they called out anything was on the obvious charging play that was the difference maker in the game (the other bad no-call was on the Kwame loose ball foul).

I feel as if towards the end of the game, the refs were trying to make up for Kobe getting slapped on the forehead at the end of game 1 (despite the fact that he took about 4 steps anyways). I'd also like to point out that the when the Suns rarely get calls, they often do not complain and perhaps that sportsmanship backfires on them in the end because they do go the free throw line the least in the league (and yes, they do shoot a lot of jumpshots, but they get slapped around inside quite a bit and you never see them ing). I guess Nash should lead by example again and start calling out the refs like Kobe and Phil (let's not forget George Karl either).

[RonMexico]

I disagree there. The foul on Nash was absolutely the right call because Nash was almost directly under the basket and well within the semi-circle that the NBA has established for taking charges. The only way that a player can take a charge inside of that semi-circle is if the opposing player uses either his hands or arms/legs to push the defender out of the way. Nash just got caught under the basket and had no choice but to foul there.

And Odom just made a great hustle play. He was willing to dive for the ball while the Suns guy made a half assed attempt at it. There was no foul there, Odom just beat him to the ball because he wanted it more. Great hustle play. Hustle plays like that win close games, especially in the P.Os.

I disagree with your whole comment because it is inaccurate on all accounts. First, Nash was outside the semi-circle and firmly planted before Kobe took off (all elements of a charge... if you don't believe me, click back to page 5 and look at the photo that is posted). Secondly, no one is denying that Lamar Odom hustled to get the ball, while diving on the ground as the Suns pretty much pussed out (I'm the first to call out this team when they act soft). The loose ball foul we're talking about is the one where Kwame mis-handled the pass like a 2-year-old and then blatantly ran over Raja Bell trying to get it back before slapping it in the direction where Odom could jump on it.

Just want to make sure that the facts are solid before you go running your mouth off Stephen A. Smith-style

[word]

I disagree with your whole comment because it is inaccurate on all accounts. First, Nash was outside the semi-circle and firmly planted before Kobe took off (all elements of a charge... if you don't believe me, click back to page 5 and look at the photo that is posted). Secondly, no one is denying that Lamar Odom hustled to get the ball, while diving on the ground as the Suns pretty much pussed out (I'm the first to call out this team when they act soft). The loose ball foul we're talking about is the one where Kwame mis-handled the pass like a 2-year-old and then blatantly ran over Raja Bell trying to get it back before slapping it in the direction where Odom could jump on it.

Just want to make sure that the facts are solid before you go running your mouth off Stephen A. Smith-style

Beat me to it, but said it well. I'm no Suns fan, never have been .....it's like Koby is Reggie Bush to some people....Rush for 500 yards against a nobody Fresno State, you win a Heisman. Same kind of with Koby. Score 70 whatever against a nobody...suddenly your a darling of the media with your clear charging foul all over ESPN as 'posterizing' Nash.

Both were pathetic.

[spurofthemoment]

John Stockton got one first place MVP vote in his entire career, and had a number of seasons as good as Nash has had. Stockton also actually played defense. MVP has become a joke.

yeah right but there was Barkley Bird Jordan Drexler Malone and Magic back then I agree with u though I hated Stockton more than Malone,,it shoulda been Kobe or Lebron CAUSE ALL THREE ARE GOING TO ELEVATE THEIR TEAMMATES BUT KOBE AND lEBRON WERE AWESOME

[Obstructed_View]

Steve Nash tried to draw a Darrell Armstrong charge under the basket. It was a block, in my opinion. Let's see what the NBA rules have to say:

• A defensive player is not permitted to move into the path of an offensive player once he has started his shooting motion.
• The speed of the offensive player will determine the amount of distance a defensive player must allow.
• The mere fact that contact occurs on these type of plays, or any other similar play, does not necessarily mean that a personal foul has been committed. The officials must decide whether the contact is negligible and/or incidental, judging each situation separately.

[RonMexico]

Steve Nash tried to draw a Darrell Armstrong charge under the basket. It was a block, in my opinion. Let's see what the NBA rules have to say:

• A defensive player is not permitted to move into the path of an offensive player once he has started his shooting motion.
• The speed of the offensive player will determine the amount of distance a defensive player must allow.
• The mere fact that contact occurs on these type of plays, or any other similar play, does not necessarily mean that a personal foul has been committed. The officials must decide whether the contact is negligible and/or incidental, judging each situation separately.

That whole comment is idiotic. I could go on more, but I have a to take that is more important than responding to your post. Bringing out the official NBA rule book can be useful when it pertains to your statement. You bold the most unimportant part of the rule because it is obvious that Joey Crawford thought the contact was not negligible because he, in fact, blew the whistle. Also, by official NBA definition, a "Darrell Armstrong" charge is described as "throwing your body in a backwards motion when little or no contact is involved, often using a shrill yell to draw attention to your action. See Manu Ginobili." If you watch the replay again, you will see that actual contact occurred and the only person yelling is Kobe Bryant. What happened was, according to definition again, a "make-up call" which is defined as "when Kobe gets hit on the face in Game 1 with no call and he and Phil about it a lot, then make sure any questionable calls go his way at crucial points in the 4th quarter."

You will see in the replay (and reiterated in my post above) that Nash was present before the shooting motion (i.e. lift-off for dunk) began and that he left the proper amount of space based on the speed of Kobe's upward thrust to garner a charging call. When Doug Collins says the officiating is bad (especially against his baby Kobe), then it was a bad call. That's in the official rule book too, section 34, dedicated specifically to Doug Collins insults.

[Doug Collins]

You will see in the replay (and reiterated in my post above) that Nash was present before the shooting motion (i.e. lift-off for dunk) began and that he left the proper amount of space based on the speed of Kobe's upward thrust to garner a charging call. When Doug Collins says the officiating is bad (especially against his baby Kobe), then it was a bad call. That's in the official rule book too, section 34, dedicated specifically to Doug Collins insults.

He does have a point, Section 34 is specifically dedicated to me.

[Scobe]

That whole comment is idiotic. I could go on more, but I have a to take that is more important than responding to your post. Bringing out the official NBA rule book can be useful when it pertains to your statement. You bold the most unimportant part of the rule because it is obvious that Joey Crawford thought the contact was not negligible because he, in fact, blew the whistle. Also, by official NBA definition, a "Darrell Armstrong" charge is described as "throwing your body in a backwards motion when little or no contact is involved, often using a shrill yell to draw attention to your action. See Manu Ginobili." If you watch the replay again, you will see that actual contact occurred and the only person yelling is Kobe Bryant. What happened was, according to definition again, a "make-up call" which is defined as "when Kobe gets hit on the face in Game 1 with no call and he and Phil about it a lot, then make sure any questionable calls go his way at crucial points in the 4th quarter."

You will see in the replay (and reiterated in my post above) that Nash was present before the shooting motion (i.e. lift-off for dunk) began and that he left the proper amount of space based on the speed of Kobe's upward thrust to garner a charging call. When Doug Collins says the officiating is bad (especially against his baby Kobe), then it was a bad call. That's in the official rule book too, section 34, dedicated specifically to Doug Collins insults.

You also have to be firmly planted and stationary to draw the charge. Nash was still moving forward BEFORE the contact. So it is a block. And shut the up with that stephen a smith . I was nice and polite before, but your dumb ass has to get ing personal. I dont like Kobe, but it was not a charge. Get the over it.

[mathbzh]

Nash is the MVP. He makes teammates better.

But as a french fan I must say something about Diaw.
He is no a Nash product.

- Last summer he was the best French player during the Euro (better than TP). He was probably the second european player behind Dirk. For those who think that european game is bull , just look at theresults of the last Olympics games.

- With Nash out for two games, Diaw had to tripple-doubles.

- Diaw struggled in Atlanta because is coach was a moron. D'antoni knows how to coach Euro-players. Of course Nash help, but whoever your teammates are you don't have 4 tripple-double a year and 13/7/6 statistics if you are a mediocre player.

[Obstructed_View]

Also, by official NBA definition, a "Darrell Armstrong" charge is described as "throwing your body in a backwards motion when little or no contact is involved, often using a shrill yell to draw attention to your action. See Manu Ginobili."

Good luck with that , because you are certainly full.

[RonMexico]

You also have to be firmly planted and stationary to draw the charge. Nash was still moving forward BEFORE the contact. So it is a block. And shut the up with that stephen a smith . I was nice and polite before, but your dumb ass has to get ing personal. I dont like Kobe, but it was not a charge. Get the over it.

The problem with that is: "quite frankly," he wasn't moving... thanks Stephen A.

[FloppinIsGreat]

The problem with that is: "quite frankly," he wasn't moving... thanks Stephen A.

You're wrong. He was moving forward. You have to be SET for the charge if the guy is already in the air. And Kobe was in the air while Nash was moving forward. I respect your convictions, but you are completely wrong here and nothing you say can change that.