Phoenix Suns: Take a Step Back

[JMarkJohns]

you became my e-nemisis by posting personal attacks in my threads with a grating, masturbatory tone.

im glad your happy with having the majority of spurs talkers agree with you and feel that this is "all that matters"...it is a relief to me that you admit to caring only about winning the popularity contest and have no pretension of putting forth cogent counterarguments.

You are all smoke, mirrors, and wild allegations.

Yes, because as a Suns fan I strive to be popular on a Spurs site. This is why my first post here was greeted with "Hey hole"...

I don't strive to be popular. I strive to be logical and to come away not as the victor, but as the post with the most reasonable and most proven opinions/thoughts.

You'd rather be right for all the wrong reasons than wrong for all the right ones. That's where you fail. I'm not afraid of being wrong. Not at all. I routinely drudge up posts of mine where I've been wrong. Both on the Suns and other teams.

Not that I'd expect a newbie like yourself with a limited understanding of the game and this site to know that. You came in, guns a blazin' and have been put in your place, not just by me, but by many with no one team affiliation. It's been a collaboration of team's fans, including several Mavs fans who have disagreed with your inferences and opinions.

I've only been one of many to stand up and both critique your "Basketball logic" and the reason behind it. When a newbie comes in with such a blatent agenda, one has to wonder why? You've criticized just about everything to do with the Suns. You've rubbed the Suns and the Suns fans noses in their own shortcomings while admitting that you aren't the authority on the subject that you like to pass yourself off as. You challenge posters of differing opinions to prove you wrong, when all you have is a debatable opinion on something that tends to go against logic, but can't really be proven or disproven at all. You speak in riddles and rhymes and try to come across as deeply intellectual. You use doublespeak to make your points so that when not embraced you have an out.

It's quite sad.

Say what you want. It's your party, you can cry if you want to.

[BillsCarnage]

...i am certain the mavs considered changes...in our particular case, standing pat was the best "change"...i think thats the exception not the norm.

But the Suns kept the system and changed the players and here they were again in the WCF's. Would that be an exception or norm?

Having a guy in the paint like KT might be good for you guys, but I worry about him clogging the lane offensively/slowing down the offense that is your bread and butter.

But this is why the Suns got KT so that he wouldn't clog the middle for Amare to work. KT can step out and shot a mid-range shot or he can let Amare go to work and then box out for a rebound.

if amare comes back healthy though, your right the Suns will be a really scary team.

Had Amare not been injured you likely would have seen it this year. Once KT went down the Suns were left for dead.

As for that top 2 defense thing, to me that is proof of just how misleading some statistics can be. watching this team indicates that they are simply not good on the defensive end, yes yes?

Well, i thought Dallas was up there as well - top 6 or so?? But when a team doesn't have any inside game the rest of the players - smaller btw - have to work that much harder on the defensive end - they couldn't rest. But when you're trying to guard someone 3-4" taller than you it's going to be difficult.

The Suns lead at the half of 5/6 games. They tired out the second halfs. Bench players who had good reg. seasons didn't step up in the PO's. They basically had a 6-man rotation.

Good points.

But JM has said many of the same things.

[Shank]

Suns with the #2 defense? Quite a misleading stat. Who gets bumped to 3rd? Detroit or San Antonio?

[pussyface]

You've criticized just about everything to do with the Suns. You've rubbed the Suns and the Suns fans noses in their own shortcomings while admitting that you aren't the authority on the subject that you like to pass yourself off as. You challenge posters of differing opinions to prove you wrong, when all you have is a debatable opinion on something that tends to go against logic, but can't really be proven or disproven at all. You speak in riddles and rhymes and try to come across as deeply intellectual. .

hehe...man, this post really let me know the extent to which I'm getting under your skin. Where to begin....?

First of all, you are projecting and I am loving it. I have written in the same tone as ever and you have deduced that I am "trying to come across as deeply intellectual." Thank you for a great compliment! (and from a self-professed journalism major!) If speaking eloquently and with ample vocabulary means im a try-hard intellectual, than I am really lost. The funniest thing yet is that you have gone from ridiculing me for my wonderful screename, than called me out for being obviously young, and now have moved onto this. Most guys who are going out of their way to try to come accross as intellectual wouldn't use a screenname like Pussyface. I appear to be a real original here.

Also, I really havent "criticized everything to do with the Suns." I hold the opinion that Steve Nash is not a legitimate MVP and the Suns weren't a le contender in '06. Get over it. The teams chance to prove me wrong is gone, but I guess thats not really the point. I actually imagine there are some (a small minority of well reasoned individuals) Suns fans out there somewhere who would agree with me on these two points.

Anyway, sorry you think i try to come across as an intellectual while at the same time sounding like a small child and running down the poor, injury depleated team that you clearly are a dispassionate, unbiased observor of.

[pussyface]

billscarnagie+markjohns=love

[JMarkJohns]

Suns with the #2 defense? Quite a misleading stat. Who gets bumped to 3rd? Detroit or San Antonio?

It was an adjusted, per-100 possession stat and it was equation that put an efficiency value on a team's overall defense and rebounding.

At one point, per-100 possession, San Antonio was #1, Phoenix #2.

This was with Kurt Thomas.

Once Thomas went down, things changed drastically for the worse. They no longer had depth, post-defense or rebounding.

It was a very tough loss for the team.

[JMarkJohns]

Anyway, sorry you think i try to come across as an intellectual...

You are trying to sound intellectual. The majority here deems that you've failed in this attempt. I'm just one of many. Even Maverick fans are starting to avoid your rantings...

[BillsCarnage]

Firs this..

you became my e-nemisis by posting personal attacks in my threads with a grating, masturbatory tone.

And now this?

billscarnagie+markjohns=love

[JMarkJohns]

Foot, meet mouth.

[pussyface]

your sense of humor is very appealing.

[Thespiralgoeson]

I really don't mean to be another Maverick troll, but I really wasn't at all impressed with Phoenix making the conference finals.

Truthfully, I wasn't overly impressed with their regular season, but that's not for lack of respect. Actually, it's a compliment. I honestly predicted that Phoenix would win their division (If I remember correctly my prediction was 52 wins) I thought everyone else was underestimating them.

But the reason I'm not impressed with their playoff run this year was because they got bailed out by the flaw in the seeding system. The fact of the matter is, they had the third best record, the Nuggets had the 7th best record, yet those teams were seeded 2nd and 3rd respectively, whereas a 60-win Maverick team was seeded below both. As far as I'm concerned, the Suns' deep playoff run this year wasn't legit because they should have played either the Mavs or the Spurs in the second round.

I'm sorry. I know it's supposed to be this amazing accomplishment that they were two games away from the finals without their best player (IMO), however the FACT is, they played the Lakers and the Clippers.

Don't get me wrong, they achieved just about the most possibly could given the cir stances. Really, a great season. However, I just don't consider this years WCF appearance to be legit. If they had beaten the Mavs or Spurs to do so, I would be on the bandwagon. However, I just don't think beating a 45 win Laker team and a 47 win Clipper team is all that awe-inspiring, even with all their injuries. Even less so when you consider that it took 7 games each to do so. I mean, honestly people, did anyone really think it was totally inconceivable that they would beat the Lakers and the Clippers? Sure, coming back from 3-1 was impressive, but in order to come back from such a defecit, you have to put yourself there in the first place.

, of all people, Spurs fans should agree. The team that got screwed the most by the seeding system was the Spurs.

[AZLouis]

JMark = 2

Face = 0

This is getting to be ridiculous. At this point it's argument for argument's sake. JMark has got stats, facts, and actualities on his side, meanwhile face basically argues with his backup being a discredited opinion.

Maybe 'face would serve better discussing how much the Rockets have taken a step back? Or perhaps the Knicks?

[BillsCarnage]

Thespiralgoeson
Believe.

Position: Rugged Forward
Team: Dallas Mavericks
vBookie Cash: $500
Post Count: 3
---------------------------------

I believe there is a rule about posters w/ less than 10 posts.

Sit down and wait your turn.

[AZLouis]

Thespiralgoeson = pussyface?

After JMark lodged the "I have X amount of guys" backing me post, pussyface probably thought it best to "obtain" backup too...

LJMARKSCONTROLLINAO!

[SPARKY]

Leave it to Mavs fan to disparage the Amare-less Suns for finding a way back to the WCF.

The worst fanbase ever.

[SirChaz]

The Suns were seeded by the legitimate rules of the NBA = Suns playoff run legitimate.

If you want to say the Suns are being overrated for what they did then fine, your opinion. To say them reaching the WCF was illegitimate is just plain stupid.

They beat the teams they were scheduled to play.

[AZLouis]

The Suns were seeded by the legitimate rules of the NBA = Suns playoff run legitimate.

If you want to say the Suns are being overrated for what they did then fine, your opinion. To say them reaching the WCF was illegitimate is just plain stupid.

They beat the teams they were scheduled to play.

Leave it to Mavs fan to complain about the rules even after they won.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Thespiralgoeson
Believe.

Position: Rugged Forward
Team: Dallas Mavericks
vBookie Cash: $500
Post Count: 3
---------------------------------

I believe there is a rule about posters w/ less than 10 posts.

Sit down and wait your turn.

You know what I believe? I believe this site blows, as does Spursreport. Everyone on here is a buch of whiney little es. Everyone from the pathetic Spurs fans refusing to accept that their team just got beat, spouting conspiracy theories about ratings and Mark Cuban's influence, to the Pistons fans whom all season participated in this SICKENING love-affair with the Spurs fans about their predestined rematch, to the absolutely pitiful trolling Mav fans. And now I make an honest attempt to actually talk some basketball with some fellow fans here, and be polite in doing so, and I get this condescending bull .

Well you, and this forum. There's nothing more pathetic than fans ing about excuses for why their team didn't win, and no excuse is more laughable and downright petty than the officiating. Add the conspiracy theories to boot, and you have a bunch of ing whiney es that the 3 time NBA champions should be ashamed to call their fans. Again, Spurs fans of all people should be the ones who know this better than anyone, considering the "asterisk" bull the Spurs had to put up with after their first championship. It's even more infantile than the idiot Mav fans I've had to deal with ing about how they would've won in 03 if Dirk hadn't gone down.

excuses. They're bull . Scoreboard, es.

[Thespiralgoeson]

The Suns were seeded by the legitimate rules of the NBA = Suns playoff run legitimate.

If you want to say the Suns are being overrated for what they did then fine, your opinion. To say them reaching the WCF was illegitimate is just plain stupid.

They beat the teams they were scheduled to play.

If the seeding system wasn't flawed, the NBA wouldn't be changing it next year. It was bull .

[ChumpDumper]

You know what I believe? I believe this site blows

Which is why you registered and posted five times.

[Thespiralgoeson]

Which is why you registered and posted five times.

Because I was told by some other Mav fans that this site was better than Spursreport. I thought I'd give it a chance. Turns out I was misinformed.

[ChumpDumper]

Goodbye then. I expect you to stop at 6.

[SPARKY]

You know what I believe? I believe this site blows, as does Spursreport. Everyone on here is a buch of whiney little es. Everyone from the pathetic Spurs fans refusing to accept that their team just got beat, spouting conspiracy theories about ratings and Mark Cuban's influence, to the Pistons fans whom all season participated in this SICKENING love-affair with the Spurs fans about their predestined rematch, to the absolutely pitiful trolling Mav fans. And now I make an honest attempt to actually talk some basketball with some fellow fans here, and be polite in doing so, and I get this condescending bull .

Well you, and this forum. There's nothing more pathetic than fans ing about excuses for why their team didn't win, and no excuse is more laughable and downright petty than the officiating. Add the conspiracy theories to boot, and you have a bunch of ing whiney es that the 3 time NBA champions should be ashamed to call their fans. Again, Spurs fans of all people should be the ones who know this better than anyone, considering the "asterisk" bull the Spurs had to put up with after their first championship. It's even more infantile than the idiot Mav fans I've had to deal with ing about how they would've won in 03 if Dirk hadn't gone down.

excuses. They're bull . Scoreboard, es.

...and Mavs fan wonders why they're regarded as the rednecked stepchildren of NBA fans. They might as well have caught a case of SARS after testing positive for HIV.

[JMarkJohns]

Thespiralgoeson
Believe.

Position: Rugged Forward
Team: Dallas Mavericks
vBookie Cash: $500
Post Count: 3
---------------------------------

I believe there is a rule about posters w/ less than 10 posts.

Sit down and wait your turn.

Haha, Son-uva-

Oh the milage we'll get from that gag!

[JMarkJohns]

This is getting to be ridiculous. At this point it's argument for argument's sake.

I honestly believe it's been such the entire time.