Besides the big 3, the Spurs have nothing

[ChumpDumper]

Sorry rascal, even Cuban has reined in his spending. The era of the big spenders is closing with a grand total of zero championships for them.

[Winnipeg_Spur]

Any team in the league wins championships with Duncan and Robinson on the same roster. Anyone could have drafted those guys. It was the luck of the lottery that landed those two guys.

That's taking it a little too far, since there are plenty of HOFs out there without rings (Stockton and Malone, anyone) but your basic premise is about right: the Spurs didn't have to do as much as other teams to put themselves in a position to win championships.

What great trades or fa have the spurs gotten? To claim Bowen is your best acquisistion outside the draft in the last 10 years is bad.

Put up what they got with what other teams have gotten and its weak. They are an epitome of the saying that its better to be lucky than good.

So if the Spurs already have enough to win championships with Duncan and Robinson, why should they be taking big risks making splashy acquisitions? They don't have to build a roster that would've won championships without Duncan, they just have to build won that wins with him.

If you can win with Bowen being your biggest free agent hiring (btw, saying that in an insulting way is kind of a slap in the face to imo, one of the ultimate Spurs) then you do it. They already had enough talent to win it all, and at that point adding more can be counterproductive. Once you've got the talent the Spurs had (and have, hopefully) it becomes more a issue of character and chemistry and I don't think you can deny the Spurs have done a really good job in that regard.

[Obstructed_View]

I'll live with an opponent taking a whole bunch of shots at a 38% clip anyday, no matter how many points he scores.

Especially when the Spurs don't have to spend nearly as much time doubling him because of Bowen. When you have Shaq on the same team then it's George and Fisher that kill you, not Kobe.

[Extra Stout]

Especially when the Spurs don't have to spend nearly as much time doubling him because of Bowen. When you have Shaq on the same team then it's George and Fisher that kill you, not Kobe.

Remember the days when the Spurs went out and acquired players that could help them win?

[Obstructed_View]

Remember the days when the Spurs went out and acquired players that could help them win?

Yeah, everybody ed about players they didn't know anything about as though they were smarter than the front office two days into the free agent period. Oh, wait. We still do that.

[Dalhoop]

The Mavs draft history is REALLY bad, until recently

Remember these first round selections (remember they were picking high in the draft)

Cherokee Parks, Loren Meyer, Samaki Walker, Kelvin Cato, Robert Traylor, Leon Smith, Etan Thomas, Courntey Alexander, Donnell Harvey

Those where the draft picks from 95-03 .... All first round picks ..... All busts.

Now through trades we have built the team that we have.

If you think that the team is built on money ... your wrong. If you remove Finley from both the Spurs and Mavs payroll .... the two teams payroll are VERY close to the same ... just under 60M (this is why we let him go).

The team was built with the trade of big contracts, Yes. But you have to have something that someone else wants in order for it to have value.

In '04 the Mavs traded value for better value ... Delk and Walker for Henderson and Terry; Laettner and Najera for Dampier and au; Jamison for Harris and Stackhouse.

Dirk was a trade (Robert Traylor on draft day)

You see .... the Mavs were built though the trade, not through money signings, and until resently, not though the draft. That is what the poster was saying ... That the Spurs don't do much in FA signings or trades. So when they have a crappy draft (Or no draft at all like this year) then they are at a disadvantage to teams that are good at the trade.

[Obstructed_View]

Dirk was not a trade. They picked Traylor for Milwaukee because they knew Dirk would still be there at 9. If they couldn't have traded down they would still have taken Dirk.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

The le of this thread is a misnomer... "besides the big 3..." How many teams in the league have 3 star-level players? We are extremely fortunate to have 3 All-stars. What would you prefer, that we do a Barkley for Perry/Lang/Hornacek and bring back 3 slightly better role players for one of our stars???

Obviously you don't remember the days when DRob, the lone star we had from '89 until Tim arrived, was forced to play with a bunch of scrubs. , Elliot, Lil Gen, Rodman and Big Dog Carr were about the only decent players he had in nearly a decade.

Be thankful that we have the Big 3 at all, and be thankful that the FO usually does a good job fitting role players in around them. Remeber, we would probably have a 4-peat right now but for that utterly bogus .4sec, and a stupid foul.

I REALLY HATE this prissy sense of en lement that so many Spurs fans have, like the league owes us something... WE HAVE THE BIG 3 FER CHRISTSAKE!!!

[Duncanfan]

"Besides the big 3, the Spurs have nothing."
What the heck!?!?!? Are you crazy!? How about Bowen!? Finley? Barry? and though he had an off playoff run.. Horry?
The Spurs are a quality center away from being the team to beat in the West this 06/07 season so don't give me that bs about the Spurs having nothing besides the big 3.

As for the Mavericks, I some Spurs fans still disrespect the Mavs the way they do up to this time. Sure he's annoying but what Cuban did to turn this franchise around is not something that happens everyday. He did a great job to turn the Mavs into what they are right now, a winning team.
Some posters don't wanna give the Mavs credit for winning against the Spurs in the 2nd round of the playoffs last season... well think again! Weren't the Mavs 1 tip in away from eliminating the Spurs in game 5? Weren't the Spurs a bit lucky that they managed to pull off a 5 point victory against a Jason Terry less Mavs in game 6? It's one thing to be a fan who loves your team.. it's another to be a fan who believes in his team too much that his close mindedness makes him look like an idiot.
The Mavs loss to Miami was due to inexperience. View it in whatever way you want but I tell you, that loss ignited the Mav's will to get better and return to the finals. I'm willing to bet that they will be a lot more focused next season.

[Dalhoop]

They picked Traylor and traded him for Dirk .... thats a trade ... no matter the situation ... its a trade. The fact is that the Wolves ... or was it the Bucks, I get the two mixed up .... had their hands on Dirk and let him go.

The Mavs still have alot of money on the payroll ... money that is going nowhere. They are paying 27.6M to players that are not even on the team (Bradley, Finley, Abdul-Wahad and Eschmeyer). If you erase those contracts the Mavs payroll is almost 15M less then the Spurs and under the Cap.

The Mavs are paying almost 15M less for their players then the Spurs are. This is not a case of a rich team "buying" players, its a matter of a smart team making the moves to improve.

So you have to wonder how much of this "we are strained by the cap" and "we are a small market team with a lower income" is true and how much the ownership is trying to cover for themselves and their in-activity this post season.

[Obstructed_View]

They picked Traylor and traded him for Dirk .... thats a trade ... no matter the situation ... its a trade. The fact is that the Wolves ... or was it the Bucks, I get the two mixed up .... had their hands on Dirk and let him go.

NBA rules don't allow teams to trade first round picks. They therefore have to take each others players and trade them. The Bucks would have taken Traylor at 9. The Mavs would have taken Dirk at 6. If the Mavericks had taken Traylor at 6 and not traded the pick to the Bucks, they would have taken Paul Pierce, not Dirk. Dirk was not a trade, he was Donn Nelson's pick all the way, and nobody else had him on their radar. At the time everyone thought he was just another in the long line of tall white guys that the Nelsons always picked. The Bucks traded up to get Dallas' pick because they were afraid someone else was going to take Traylor before 9.

[Dalhoop]

The Spurs are a quality center away from being the team to beat in the West this 06/07 season so don't give me that bs about the Spurs having nothing besides the big 3.

This is simple not true, unless by quality you mean Shaq or Yao

The problem with the Spurs is two fold and both were shown to the League in the Mavs series.

1) Old
2) Slow

The only players on the team that are under 30 are Duncan, Parker and Manu (Not really but I posted the ages earlier and I'm to lazy to go back) This would be too bad, but almost half the team is close to retirement age (Horry, Barry, Bowen, Williams and Finley)

About the slow thing. Parker was supposed to be the "fastest PG in the league", the Mavs had TWO that were faster.

The Spurs were so concerned with what the Mavs could throw at them that after game 1 they abandoned the defense first game style that got them everything the last several years and tried to out score the Mavs (They came close, closer then I thought they would)

If you think that the Spurs were "close" your very wrong, the Mavs did control the series from the second game on (when the started "small ball"). The only thing that kept the Spurs close in ANY game was Duncan doing his Superman imitation ..... How long do you think that he can do that?

The Spurs need alot of help, they need to move the oldsters and bring in some younger faster players ... Thats why the draft was so confusing ... they needed youth and traded out of the draft and got nothing .... Very confusing

[Winnipeg_Spur]

The problem with the Mavs is two fold and both were shown to the League in the Heat series.

1) Heartless
2) Choke artists

[THE SIXTH MAN]

About the slow thing. Parker was supposed to be the "fastest PG in the league", the Mavs had TWO that were faster.

Nice to see you didn't do your homework. T Park was playing through injuries from the Sac series.

[THE SIXTH MAN]

If you think that the Spurs were "close" your very wrong, the Mavs did control the series from the second game on (when the started "small ball"). The only thing that kept the Spurs close in ANY game was Duncan doing his Superman imitation ..... How long do you think that he can do that?

How did small ball work for you in the finals?

[Obstructed_View]

About the slow thing. Parker was supposed to be the "fastest PG in the league", the Mavs had TWO that were faster.

The Mavs had at least two that were healthier. More about this in a moment.

The Spurs were so concerned with what the Mavs could throw at them that after game 1 they abandoned the defense first game style that got them everything the last several years and tried to out score the Mavs (They came close, closer then I thought they would)

The coach ing panicked after nobody but Duncan showed up for game 2 and completely overhauled his gameplan and threw a short lineup with a banged up point guard and no backup at the Mavericks after surrendering HCA. This came one series after he allowed Parker to get the piss beat out of him because he failed to develop Parker's backup and was afraid to bring him in with only a 25 point lead. All evidence shows that that panic has continued into the offseason, but the Spurs were still the better team by the end of the series against the Mavs, and had finally figured out how to win, even short handed. Give them a season with a system they will actually use in the playoffs and they will hold their own against anyone, even with Francisco Elson or Whoever Tha avic playing center. If the Spurs hadn't completely laid a ing egg in game 2 or decided to spot the Mavericks an entire quarter in game 7, the series could have been drastically different. I only mention it because those are preparation and mental errors, not age and speed errors.

[Obstructed_View]

The problem with the Mavs is two fold and both were shown to the League in the Heat series.

1) Heartless
2) Choke artists

3) Bad Sports
4) Classless Losers
5) Cruel to exercise equipment

[Winnipeg_Spur]

5) Cruel to exercise equipment

[timvp]

Besides the big 3, the Spurs have nothing

Correction.

We have Mr. Belding or whatever this New Zealanders name is.

[Dalhoop]

Nice to see you didn't do your homework. T Park was playing through injuries from the Sac series.

Just like Duncan was playing injured? I wish players/teams would stop using this as an excuse.

How did small ball work for you in the finals?

The Heat are a different team then The Spurs. We hardly used small ball with them, Griffen was the starting SG in the Finals.

The coach ing panicked after nobody but Duncan showed up for game 2 and completely overhauled his gameplan and threw a short lineup with a banged up point guard and no backup at the Mavericks after surrendering HCA. This came one series after he allowed Parker to get the piss beat out of him because he failed to develop Parker's backup and was afraid to bring him in with only a 25 point lead.

This does make sense, but I am not sure a coach at this level "panics" and tosses five years of successful game planning into the wind. Pop doesn't seem like the type to panic.

Give them a season with a system they will actually use in the playoffs and they will hold their own against anyone, even with Francisco Elson or Whoever Tha avic playing center.

Again I would agree with this, but if the team has any center he will play the same number of minutes next year vs the Mavs as Nazr and Rasho did this past year (Not many)

If the Spurs hadn't completely laid a ing egg in game 2 or decided to spot the Mavericks an entire quarter in game 7, the series could have been drastically different.

And if a tip-in goes in at the buzzer the Mavs would have won 4-1 .... Thats how close the Spurs were to lossing BADLY ... but you say they are close ... whatever.

I only mention it because those are preparation and mental errors, not age and speed errors.

I mention that because it was simple tip-in .. no errors at all, a simple tip-in. the Spurs were a tip-in away from lossing 4-1 to the Mavs ... talk about a bad foul at the end of game seven all you want ... The Spurs were lucky to make it to game 6 (a tip-in is a very high % shot)

The problem with the Mavs is two fold and both were shown to the League in the Heat series.

1) Heartless
2) Choke artists

5) Cruel to exercise equipment

I think the Finals showed what a superstar can do when given the ball, Wade was .... just WOW. I do think that we were a little .... unprepared for the Finals. We didn't play our game all series, some of that is credit to the Heat, but some also falls on the teams first Finals appearance ... those things happen, I am over it long ago.

Going to have to plead guilty on number 5, but I will say one thing, that exersize bike will never with Dirk again.

[Kori Ellis]

Just like Duncan was playing injured? I wish players/teams would stop using this as an excuse.

Duncan had a chronic problem all year -- everyone knows that.

I think people are just pointing out to you that Tony sustained actual injuries at the end of the Kings series beginning of the Mavs series. He had two very bad thigh bruises and then a groin pull. The night before Game 2 (Mavs series) the Spurs had thought they would have to scratch him because he could barely walk and certainly couldn't run. The training staff got him ready the morning of the game and he made a go of it.

It's not an excuse. It's a reality that he couldn't finish or be as fast as normal because he had no legs or lift in the Mavs series.

And he still averaged 20ppg.

[TDMVPDPOY]

The Mavs draft history is REALLY bad, until recently

Remember these first round selections (remember they were picking high in the draft)

Cherokee Parks, Loren Meyer, Samaki Walker, Kelvin Cato, Robert Traylor, Leon Smith, Etan Thomas, Courntey Alexander, Donnell Harvey

Those where the draft picks from 95-03 .... All first round picks ..... All busts.

Now through trades we have built the team that we have.

If you think that the team is built on money ... your wrong. If you remove Finley from both the Spurs and Mavs payroll .... the two teams payroll are VERY close to the same ... just under 60M (this is why we let him go).

The team was built with the trade of big contracts, Yes. But you have to have something that someone else wants in order for it to have value.

In '04 the Mavs traded value for better value ... Delk and Walker for Henderson and Terry; Laettner and Najera for Dampier and au; Jamison for Harris and Stackhouse.

Dirk was a trade (Robert Traylor on draft day)

You see .... the Mavs were built though the trade, not through money signings, and until resently, not though the draft. That is what the poster was saying ... That the Spurs don't do much in FA signings or trades. So when they have a crappy draft (Or no draft at all like this year) then they are at a disadvantage to teams that are good at the trade.

have a owner willin to dish money to build a team and pay luxery tax is also an advantage

[Dalhoop]

have a owner willin to dish money to build a team and pay luxery tax is also an advantage

We didn't get the players we have by signing FA, thats the whole point. It all started with the trade for Juwan Howard, almost the entire team can be traced back to that trade.

Teams don't need money to compete, the Mavs are paying 49.1M for the player on the floor compaired to 61M for the Spurs.

Now the Mavs are paying for players that have retired or moved on, but the team on the court is very cost effective at 49M

[TDMVPDPOY]

wat is pissin me off atm is toronto raptors signin anthony parker for under MLE, who is unproven in the nba, but experience in euro, as compared to javtokas/scola who also has experience in europe isnt even given a look at joining the spurs, instead we go out sign two scrubs. Im pretty sure scola/javtokas couldve been attained by using MLE.

win now or win layter?

[rascal]

Welcome Dalhoop. Your bringing good takes. Dallas ownership has done a far better job thanthe spurs in transforming their team with smart trades. The spurs always find reasons why they can't pull the trigger and get a top player via trade instead settling for role players.

That is the thinking of the previous spurs front office (trying to win with vinny Del Negro) and now this one that wasted much of Robinson's career with the spurs. It wasn't until they were lucky to get Duncan did they move up to a higher level.

Duncan is so good he can mask the inadaquacies of the front office regarding trades and fa signings.