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I think he will get somewhere around 15-18 minutes per game, enough time to provide solid backup minutes for Terry and Harris. This is more than we could have gotten from DA, that's why I say he's an improvement.
Yes it was called sarcasm but I responded to the wrong person then decided to just forget even posting it to prevent this thread from going even more insane.
I think he will get somewhere around 15-18 minutes per game, enough time to provide solid backup minutes for Terry and Harris. This is more than we could have gotten from DA, that's why I say he's an improvement.
Harris will improve his jumper and his strength this year which will make him better.
Howard will continue to improve his jumper as well and more post moves hopefully.
Diop will get in even better shape this year and be a shotblocking force and be able to be out there longer without wearing down.
That is possibly 3 out of the 5 starters that could be better.
Let's give it up for this year's KINGS.....The Dallas Mavericks
Dallas has a very talented group of players....No doubt
A very talented coach, whom by the way, has taken more than a few pages from SPURS management
Then why, OH WHY, are the MAVS still RINGLESS
ONE ANSWER, as it always will be, MARK CUBAN
Just like Flip Saunders, Chris Webber, the entire Sacremento Kings for that matter, Charles Barkely, ect....The Mavericks will not win an NBA CHAMPIONSHIP under Mark Cuban
Why....................No Humulity, as well a deep lack of respect towards opposing teams
It's called karma.. and no answer for Tim Duncan.
Mavs
I see Harris improving. With starters minutes comes more time on the floor, that translates to stats and experience. He is very likely to improve.
Terry, moving to SG will make him more of a pure shooter, already his main strength. I can see some improvement in his points, but not by an large amount.
Howard will get better, not necessarily in the scoring, though that could happen, but mostly in his defensive and rebounding .... I really like the player he is becoming.
I here Dirk is emphasizes his passing this off season, he should work on Dampiers ball handling. I don't see much improvement or decline.
Dampier will still have his hands of stone, but this year they will only show themselves when he is alone under the basket ... Unfortunately I don't see much change with him.
Diop will now be in his second year of getting steady minutes. Though still sharing minutes, I see him taking more and more minutes from Dampier. I expect a slight improvement in his game, mostly in the defensive area.
Our back-up PG job goes from Harris (Now the starter) to Jackson. I would expect less mistakes, but slower speed .... This is a push.
The Starting SG goes from Griffen (gone) to Terry. This is a massive improvement. Back-ups go from Danials (gone) to Buckner (If Buckner gets minutes, its an improvement.
Spurs
Parker doesn't have much room for improvement, if any, it would be slight.
Manu, maybe is just me, but it seems as though injuries are a part of his game now. I don't think he can return to the Manu of a few years ago, but he could improve a little over last year.
Bowen will be the same player that he has been for most of his career, unless age catches him, but he is pretty quick vs Age. No improvement.
Duncan, This is a tough call. The Spurs are a three man team, any improvement on the score board will be at the cost of Parker and Manu's shots. Can he get better defensively? I think that his numbers will improve (at the expense of Parker), but for the most part he will still be MVP caliber Duncan.
With minutes comes development and experience. Both Elson and Butler will like the minutes, what kind of games they have (or don't) with these minutes is anyone's guess. Improvement is assured
Back-up PG goes from NVE (gone) to Vaughn, if Vaughn gives anything, its an improvement.
Back-up PF goes from Horry (aging, may retire) to Bonner (if he wins the job). Horry gave nothing in the playoffs last year and looked very tired, Bonner at least has youth. I am going to say push on this one. The amount of minutes will not be something to write home about.
Centers go from Rasho and Nasr (both gone) to Elson and Butler. Neither new guy has put up numbers like the old guys, but then they have never gotten the opportunity with the minutes. I can't see the new combo doing more then 12-10 combined, this would be a push.
Both teams have improved, but the move of Terry to SG will be the biggest change for the Mavs. They will no longer have Griffen (No shot), someone you could "play off of", on the floor. All Mavs would have to be guarded full time. This is an big improvement, more-so then the Spurs.
Wow. Color me shocked that Mav fan thinks that most of the players on his team, as well as the team as a whole, will improve significantly, while believing that the Spurs are basically topped out.
WOW, you didn't read it, but you did post on it. I mentioned three Mavs that would improve (Harris, Howard and Diop) and one that may improve slightly (Terry)Wow. Color me shocked that Mav fan thinks that most of the players on his team, as well as the team as a whole, will improve significantly, while believing that the Spurs are basically topped out.
I mentioned three Spurs that would improve (Duncan, Butle and Elson) and two that would improve slightly (Parker and Manu)
Only a Spurs fan would think this is "topped out"Both teams have improved
How the can you say Tony doesn't have room for improvement? HE'S 23!!! And replacing Marquis Daniels with Greg Buckner is not an improvement. And you say that Harris looks like he's gonna improve. The same could be said for Parker. They are both young and are gonna be given a lot of minutes. So how does Harris improve but Tony doesn't?
Last edited by #1elliottfan; 10-09-2006 at 09:25 AM.
Mavs >>> Spares...
EASILY!!!
Mavs >>> Spares...
EASILY!!!
Spurs > Mavs easily..
Last year he had an All-Star year, most of this was do to an injury to Duncan. Parker had to do more for the team to win. He came through with flying colors. With Duncan back to full strength (we think). He will once again be the focus of the offense, taking more touches from Tony. I didn't say he wouldn't improve, I said it would be slight.How the can you say Tony doesn't have room for improvement? HE'S 23!!!
Danials didn't have the trust of the coach, he didn't get the minutes. Like I said, anyone that gets minutes, is better then someone that doesn't.And replacing Marquis Daniels with Greg Buckner is not an improvement.
Parker has been getting starter minutes for several years now, he has been running the offense for several years now. He is about as far from a player being named the starting PG for his team then you can get. Harris will be given the keys to the car for the first time .... without need to look over his shoulder. This will be his first year of getting 30-35 minutes at the point, instead of coming off the bench as a back-up.And you say that Harris looks like he's gonna improve. The same could be said for Parker. They are both young and are gonna be given a lot of minutes. So how does Harris improve but Tony doesn't?
These are two different situations. Parker will get the same minutes as last year, and in those same minutes, he is expected to do more then he did last year? Thats a little hard to ask. Harris will be given more time ... Just based on the minutes alone his production should go up, even if, as a player, his game doesn't improve. The minutes alone will give him more shots, passes and drives to the hoop.
It is much more likely that Harris PPG and APG will jump simply buy getting more minutes. Parker has to do more with the same minutes and a healthy cast .... a much more difficult task to accomplish given his high standard of last year.
And again I didn't say he wouldn't improve, I said it would be slight
How do you know Parker will be given the same amount of minutes? We don't have a backup that's developed enough in the Spurs system right now so he can be given more time. He's very athletic so he can handle it. But you have Anthony Johnson and I don't think anyone knows if he's developed a lot yet. You say now that he won't have bigger numbers because he'll share the ball with Duncan and Manu, but the same can be said with Harris not improving much because he'll have to share the ball with Dirk and JT and Josh. So both players can stay the same, but both players apg can go up by having to share it so much.
I think the biggest question to ponder is if the Mavs have that parade route planned out yet?
Hey Dalhoop, would you rather have Bonzi or Ager? Just a quick question of curiosity.
Then we can go back to arguing.
Mavs rookie Ager lays it on thick
Ager making impact with compact frame, aggressive style of play
01:42 AM CDT on Monday, October 9, 2006
By EDDIE SEFKO / The Dallas Morning News
The Mavericks toyed with the idea of signing Bonzi Wells before the swingman landed in Houston.
They opted not to make a strong play for Wells for many reasons. One of those reasons is because they feel they have a Bonzi starter kit in their possession – without the potential headaches that could come along with the original version, who has had his share of off-court situations.
Maurice Ager is built like Wells. He has the same, rare combination of thickness and quickness. He's a good rebounder for his height, which is the same as Wells' 6-5. And he's quick, tough and doesn't mind working hard at the defensive end of the court.
In short, the Mavericks think the rookie out of Michigan State has the potential to play like Bonzi. That would give the team plenty of options at small forward and shoot- ing guard beyond this season.
Jerry Stackhouse will be a free agent next season, as will Josh Howard, although Howard will be restricted. Because of this, the Mavericks feel they need to see how strong Ager can be this season.
"I've always tried to be aggressive," Ager said Sunday. "If you're tentative, you're not going to play as well. We lift a lot of weights at Michigan State. You got to be tough. And that toughness has helped me get to this level. Honestly, I like going to the basket. Sometimes I'll settle for the 3. But my game is driving the paint."
He's definitely not afraid to be assertive, which is a nice way to say that a rookie is shooting too much.
Through the first week of training camp, Ager has been, as Mavericks coach Avery Johnson says, a typical rookie. He has flashed some solid signs of his considerable ability. And he's dribbled the ball off his feet a few times, too.
But mostly, Ager has shot whenever the opportunity presented itself. And, sometimes, even when it didn't. As Johnson said during two-a-days in Denton, "his name is not listed next to 'passing' in Webster's dictionary."
Maurice Ager, shown holding his jersey at the Mavericks news conference welcoming him, took more shots than anyone in a scrimmage in Sunday's Fan Jam. That much was clear Sunday during a scrimmage that was part of the Fan Jam at American Airlines Center. Ager had a long jumper and a tough layup in traffic in the first half. He finished 4-of-11 from the field and had 13 points for the victorious Blue team, which beat the White squad, 61-57. Ager took more shots than anybody else in the 40-minute game.
"He's aggressive," Johnson said. "He's full of energy. And he was really excited to put on his uniform. We want him to continue to feel that way in March and May and maybe June."
Ager said it was an indescribable feeling putting on the official uniform for the first time in a game situation. He told Jason Terry before the game that he was overwhelmed at the thought of finally reaching the NBA.
"This doesn't feel real," he said. "It's been a dream all my life. A lot of people don't get this far."
The Mavericks are banking on Ager getting even further before his career is done.
I suppose that is what we disagree on.
BTW, the improvement the Mavs need is not in the regular season, they are potent there, and that is where depth makes the most impact.
In the playoffs, a team runs 7, maybe 8 deep, so depth at the 3rd backup PG is minimal. You can argue that his play at 3rd backup PG can relief Terry and Harris in the regular season, keeping them fresh, but then history has proved that a team does not need an incredibly deep team to win the championship, in fact, outside of the Pistons of the late 80's, I can't think of a team that won the le based on depth (2004 Pistons won on their starting five). A team usually win on the account of 3 or 4 players.
In fact, come to think of it (new theory here), a team that relies on multiple players to peak runs a higher risk in the playoffs than a team that relies on 2 or 3 players.
For example, we all know the Spurs le hopes are done with if Duncan goes down in the playoffs, no matter who his backup is. An injury to either Ginobili, Parker and Bowen significantly impacts the chances of the Spurs advancing. In the span of 82 games, the chances of injury to any of the 4 players is high, and given that there is a high level of disparity between the talent in teams, the Spurs can have a decent backup at any of the position, and still maybe keep the momentum going, BUT if an injury happens in the playoffs, which happens between 16 to 28 games, and because the talent of your compe ion improves so much more in the playoffs, it matters little who your replacement for the 4 is, your chance at a championship is severely compromised.
Now for a team like the Mavs, who require more parts to function. Nowitzki is obviously the one the whole team's le hopes lie on, but if an injury happens to Terry, Stackhouse, Howard, and maybe even Harris, the chances of a le gets severely compromised. But of course, injuries (freak injuries I mean) are a chance incident, the Mavs reliance on 5 players, vs. the Spurs reliance on 4 players, is actually a disadvantage.
I haven't really thought this through thoroughly, and obviously haven't, and will not, create a model to prove/disprove this, so feel free to discuss.
I think this is right... the less players you rely on, the better off you generally are. Just look at Team USA.
Harris HAS to improve his jumper and strength to improve.
Howard HAS to improve his jumper to improve.
Diop HAS to improve some way, the guy has been in the league for 5 years and has been a total bust
And yes, they COULD be better, but will they? Frankly, I am not so sure.
Howard has improved from 1st the 2nd year based mostly on more minutes, and 2nd to 3rd year based mostly on a changed role (namely, more on the offensive end). We have seen his steals, blocks, and rebounds drop on a per 48 minute basis over the last few years, and increase in FGA and FTA. Is he a better player than his rookie year? Absolutely! But his efficiency stayed relatively constant over that period. Which means that his improvement came mostly at the expense of his teammates'.
Harris is the latest of the super quick with no jump shot PG. Jump shots don't happen to just fall. Good shooters usually starts off as good shooters. In fact, look at a guy like Jason Kidd, he can't shoot, and he can't shoot, it doesn't matter how much he practice, he still can't! Sure, there are guys like Magic, Isiah, Jordan and Drexler who improved their outside shot dramatically through their careers, but that's why they are legends.
Spurs fan could just as easily say that Parker can be a 3 point threat, Butler is going to be a monster down low, Ginobili and Duncan will be the healthiest they have been in 6 years, and that holds just as much water as your argument.
That means he is going to take it away from somebody else.
At 6'2" he will be KILLED on defense if this happens.
Please see my previous post, his defensive stats have actually declined on a per 48 minute basis over the last 3 years.
Agreed
Again, he has shown ZERO improvement in 5 years, and still averges over 6 fouls per 40 minutes.
I suppose you mean Johnson. I seriously cannot see how replacing Harris with Johnson is a push. He can run the team better, but then the Mavs run their offense through their PF, not PG, anyways. His lack of speed on the perimeter requires a LOT of help defense for quick PG, say .... Parker?
But you lost a backup at point! (I disagree on how Johnson is an equivalent with Harris). And Buckner is NOT an improvement over Daniels, no matter how you spin it. That's why Daniels got such a huge contract (well, we all know Cuban overpays unnecesarily, but still). He may be more disciplined, but I am not sure if he is better.
Again, Terry will be KILLED on defense at SG, Buckner is as weak an offensive player as Griffen is.
As for the Spurs, I don't think much was improved in terms of talent, and in terms of a change in philosophy change, we will have to wait a few games to see.
I think the Spurs addressed specific problems, while the Mavs just tried to get generally better. In the end, I think Terry is the x factor in every prediction about who wins. If he can find a way to go off like he did against the Spurs during the playoffs last season, then it will be a another tough series. If not, Spurs in 6. Dirk has never been able to take his team over the top alone - before he had Nash and Finley when they got to the conference finals; now Terry and Howard are stepping up to fill in their spaces. But I think, just like before, the Spurs can stop everyone but dirk and let dirk have his.
Its just about playing twin tower defense, not going small. You have to think about it: sure, when Dirk is isolating at the top of the key, our help big man will be by himself to stop someone who would be driving in. BUT, when someone like Harris or Howard are driving in, technically we will have help big men, because you must remember that Dirk is going to be going for the rebound if they miss, and if they pass it out to him, we shift and someone like Bowen or Bonner gets on him, so I think we can shut down all the other players and throw dirk off a little bit. At least, thats my theory.
Harris will guard the better player. Either the point guard or shooting guard. Unless Kobe Bryant or Mcgrady play shooting guard I don't think it is that bad of a mismatch.
I'm sure we do at times but its not as prevalent. Most of our arguements can be backed up too.
And that is precisely the problem, it's either Harris or Terry who will guard the opposition's SG if both are on the floor at the same time. One is a skinny 6'3", the other is a skinnier 6'2", any team with a long SG, which basically is every elite team will take advantage of this matchup.
It's the classic example of giving up defense for the sake of offense, which was the old Mavs, but I doubt Avery Johnson would go for that, because that coach is defense first and foremast.
Anyways, the Mavs MAY improve, but I see the improvement as minimal, and by as about the same amount as the Spurs, if that.
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