Now The Knicks Think Bruce Bowen Is a Dirty Player

[Kamnik]

Actually it doesn't even matter what anyone says is "dirty". That's the most subjective thing ever.

It just matters what is breaking the rules.

Maybe Bowen gets suspended on this and then they'll be a precedent for a rule.

But in past years, opponents have sent tape to the league on Bowen's "dirty" tactics over and over. And the league has basically said he's playing within the rules.

Until they say different, that's how it is.

There's a rule against punching, going for the head, etc. Until there's a specific rule that says you can't be looking the other way and sort of intentionally but maybe perhaps accidentally have your foot under where a shooter might perhaps maybe possibly land, then Bowen will just do what he does.

i dont think it is very subjective thing to someone who plays basketball a lot

for me dirty players are the ones doing things that have a good chance of getting someone injured



no real player minds a bit of rough play; but you dont get injured being hit on your arms or so being fouled hard


putting your feet under someone who is going to land intentionaly IS dirty or however someone chooses to call it

[samikeyp]

i dont think it is very subjective thing to someone who plays basketball a lot

for me dirty players are the ones doing things that have a good chance of getting someone injured

that is why its subjective, someone else may not feel that way.

[Kamnik]

that is why its subjective, someone else may not feel that way.

i dont think someone who never played basketball can really judge good about these things

i and most of the posters here probably played a lot and all of them know that in such a clean situation defender's feet dont land under attackers feet just by chance


i watched the video several times; Bruce could land in a deiferent way if he wanted

EDIT:

p.s.

per say the Knick's players played a lot of ball in their life and know that "Bruce could land otherwise"

[samikeyp]

i dont think someone who never played basketball can really judge good about these things

i and most of the posters here probably played a lot and all of them know that in such a clean situation defender's feet dont land under attackers feet just by chance


i watched the video several times; Bruce could land in a deiferent way if he wanted

You are assuming I have never played basketball?

As someone who played a lot at a younger, thinner age, I understand what you are saying but its still subjective. Personally, I never called a foul unless my arm was cut off even though, by definition of the rules, I was fouled. It didn't bother me, it did bother other people. Some people's definition of "rough play" may be different than anothers but neither of them are wrong.

[whottt]

I don't think the punkasses that Bruce has owned are exactly the voices of objectivity on this subject.

They get injured during a frustrating night with Bruce...you think they can be objective? These guys don't like being shut down...guys do not always have rational reasons for being pissed...

And the night Vince Carter made that accusation came after a couple of asskickings at the hands of Bruce.


Put it this way...if this was a jury trial, the guys accusing Bruce would not be allowed to sit on the jury, guranteed.


And to fans of other teams(and certain SPURS FANS) saying that if Bruce didn't play for the Spurs we'd see things differently....


If Bruce played for their team the guys saying that would see things differently too...Guranteed.

Nothing funnier than having Laker, Piston and Mav fan get on their high horse...

Can Jazz fan coming in here to lecture us on dirty play be far behind?

But go ahead and throw Bruce under the bus...you know who you are.

[2Cleva]

And that is against the rules?

Again I have to ask- if some big name scorers like Dirk, Ray Allen and Vince openly and publicly complain about it, and Stern does not make a rule, much less get the officials to be more aware of it, then what does that say about the seriousness of the matter to Stern?

The man has made just about every single rule change to benefit the offensive player and improve scoring. I doubt he would leave this one out there if he thought it was a large problem.

Unwritted rules of the game. It's not written in the rules not to grab someone's balls but that doesn't mean you should do it.

Trying to justify it instead of admitting it is what it is makes one look bad.

[samikeyp]

I don't think the punkasses that Bruce has owned are exactly the voices of objectivity on this subject.

Good point.

[samikeyp]

Unwritted rules of the game. It's not written in the rules not to grab someone's balls but that doesn't mean you should do it.

Actually that is covered by "unsportsmanlike conduct" which is a judgement call and if a ref though Bruce was doing this to hurt someone, they could apply the same rule.

[Kamnik]

I don't think the punkasses that Bruce has owned are exactly the voices of objectivity on this subject.

They get injured during a frustrating night with Bruce...you think they can be objective? These guys don't like being shut down...guys do not always have rational reasons for being pissed...

And the night Vince Carter made that accusation came after a couple of asskickings at the hands of Bruce.


Put it this way...if this was a jury trial, the guys accusing Bruce would not be allowed to sit on the jury, guranteed.


And to fans of other teams saying that if Bruce didn't play for the Spurs we'd see things differently....


If Bruce played for their team the guys saying that would see things differently too...

But go ahead and throw Bruce under the bus...you know who you are.

i dont like whiners and i especially dont like neither Vince Carter neither Ray Allen

but after watching the replay like 30 times and in slow motion i believe Bruce does it at least a bit on purpose; he knows others might get injured (good probability) and he is using that to mess with their game

i dont approve that

[samikeyp]

i dont like whiners

On this we agree. I don't think though the thought of "hey, maybe I can injure this guy" goes through Bruce's head in the middle of a game.

[Kamnik]

Unwritted rules of the game. It's not written in the rules not to grab someone's balls but that doesn't mean you should do it.

Trying to justify it instead of admitting it is what it is makes one look bad.

i agree



NBA players (all players) should look out for each other (in terms of serious injury)

using your elbows a lot or not at least a bit watch where you land IS DIRTY

[samikeyp]

NBA players (all players) should look out for each other (in terms of serious injury)

using your elbows a lot or not at least a bit watch where you land IS DIRTY

IMO, dirty is the intent to injure and I don't think Bruce is doing that. I will say there is a bigger problem with elbows flying in the league. Not as bad as when Malone was playing though.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

This is the most successful thread I have had in a long time.

[Kamnik]

You are assuming I have never played basketball?

As someone who played a lot at a younger, thinner age, I understand what you are saying but its still subjective. Personally, I never called a foul unless my arm was cut off even though, by definition of the rules, I was fouled. It didn't bother me, it did bother other people. Some people's definition of "rough play" may be different than anothers but neither of them are wrong.

on opposite

i expect every big basketball fan probably played some basketball some time in his life

but as my last reply wrote:

there are some unwritten rules betwen players that should be followed

[samikeyp]

but as my last reply wrote:

there are some unwritten rules betwen players that should be followed

agreed, I just think some of those rules aren't always broken. Just my .02.

[2Cleva]

Actually that is covered by "unsportsmanlike conduct" which is a judgement call and if a ref though Bruce was doing this to hurt someone, they could apply the same rule.

Where in the rules prior to this season does it say "Thou shall not grab balls"?

There are many more tricks of the trade that are dirty that refs don't call. Stuff that players (regardless of the level) would want to fight for. Look closely at any John Stockton video for more.

Is what Bowen did illegal? No. Does he do it on purpose? Obviously so. Is the intent to harm? Yes. Saying he's not is defeating the purpose of his actions.

If I stand in the middle of a room and start swinging a bat and someone happens to come close to me, did I intend to harm? Of course I did. I engaged in recless behavior. That is how Bowen plays.

[Kamnik]

IMO, dirty is the intent to injure and I don't think Bruce is doing that. I will say there is a bigger problem with elbows flying in the league. Not as bad as when Malone was playing though.

if i am throwing stones around my town over roofs on random because i get the kick out of it i might not do it so someoenw would get injured (ok stupid example)

but if there is 1% chance someone gets hurt by doing it after a time someone will get injured



not watching where your foot lands (and in this case Bruce knew exactly where Francis's landing area is) is the same


if someone is so careless about it then i consider him dirty

[Kamnik]

Where in the rules prior to this season does it say "Thou shall not grab balls"?

There are many more tricks of the trade that are dirty that refs don't call. Stuff that players (regardless of the level) would want to fight for. Look closely at any John Stockton video for more.

Is what Bowen did illegal? No. Does he do it on purpose? Obviously so. Is the intent to harm? Yes. Saying he's not is defeating the purpose of his actions.

If I stand in the middle of a room and start swinging a bat and someone happens to come close to me, did I intend to harm? Of course I did. I engaged in recless behavior. That is how Bowen plays.

hehe our stupid examples came almost simultaniously


i dont like too much law talk or whatever.... fact is that this sprain didnt happen in traffic or some other situation where you dont know where the opposite player will land

Bruce did know (as he is an experienced player) where Francis will land and if he doesnt care or think (every player thinks about it...) about these things happening then he is dirty in my eyes

[JamStone]

I'd like to see Bruce somehow get caught on a switch on Shaq and when Shaq went up for a half hook, Bruce put his leg underneath Shaq and Shaq break his leg or foot.

Would that happen? Nope, cuz Bruce would be sure to get out of the way so Shaq wouldn't land on his leg or foot.

Bruce knows what he's doing. It's at the very least borderline dirty.

You don't have to defend Bruce. Just call it what it is. It's a likely dirty tactic that gives Bruce a mental edge over his opponent.

Put it this way...if this was a jury trial, the guys accusing Bruce would not be allowed to sit on the jury, guranteed.

They wouldn't sit on the jury because they would all be witnesses called to testify against Bruce.

[Kamnik]

Bruce knows what he's doing. It's at the very least borderline dirty.

exactly

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I'd like to see Bruce somehow get caught on a switch on Shaq and when Shaq went up for a half hook, Bruce put his leg underneath Shaq and Shaq break his leg or foot.

Would that happen? Nope, cuz Bruce would be sure to get out of the way so Shaq wouldn't land on his leg or foot.

Didn't Artest do that just last year? Shaq missed a month as a result and Ron walked away without a scratch, fine, or suspension.

[nkdlunch]

I'd like to see Bruce somehow get caught on a switch on Shaq and when Shaq went up for a half hook, Bruce put his leg underneath Shaq and Shaq break his leg or foot.

This happened with Artest not Bruce. Shaq was out for weeks I beleive. Did anybody call Artest dirty?? nope. maybe just some crybaby heat fans. just like these crybaby Knicks

[nkdlunch]

damn u beat me

[TheSanityAnnex]

Did it really take this long for a Bruce homer to pull out the "well look at what Artest did" line?

[JamStone]

Actually, I frequent the Heat messageboards. And, I'm pretty sure a lot of Heat fans were in uproar saying Artest did it intentionally. I don't know how many people called Artest dirty. But, everyone already knew he was crazy.

My point was that Bruce would be sure not to get underneath Shaq because it's more likely that Bruce get hurt than Shaq get hurt in that instance. Ron Artest is just crazy. He don't give a .