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I'm sorry but have you seen him in the playoffs that last few years? He struggles when defenses gear to stop him. This is not uniqe to TP but to deny that he struggles when this happens is
sad cause do you honestly think his performance in the last two games is worth such a debate?
I'm aware of tony ups and downs but who would you honestly want in the team in his place? Tim, manu and tony are very different player and that's three different kind of weapons... The only thing they have in common is following the game plan, willing to win, and playing as a team... the ones that still think he's a ballhog are just dumb...
when i read that tony think about the asg more than the ring have to play teamsport before posting...
I'm sorry but have you seen him in the playoffs that last few years? He struggles when defenses gear to stop him. This is not uniqe to TP but to deny that he struggles when this happens is
When he didn't have a jumpshot, he struggled. And yes, he had tunnel vision at times. But honestly the bashing in this thread is out of control.I'm sorry but have you seen him in the playoffs that last few years? He struggles when defenses gear to stop him. This is not uniqe to TP but to deny that he struggles when this happens is
Up until last night, he was averaging very very few turnovers this season. Last night, he DID actually pass very well and his teammates missed a lot of layups and 3 pointers. Did he up in the 4th quarter? Yes a couple times. But the Bobcats were also clawing the ball from his hands.
I just don't get when people will be satisfied. You guys are acting like it's the norm that Tony puts his head down and ignores everyone on the team while shooting a sub par percentage and committing a ton of turnovers. And that's crap. People calling him an overrated All-Star in this thread and saying "so what" about his shooting percentage is stupid.
He was the most consistent Spur all last season. He has been the most consistent Spurs so far in this short season. What he's done in the paint has been simply amazing. And his jump shot is looking increasingly better all the time. Last year when he was "chucking" 20 shots a game, Pop said he wanted him to shoot 25.
I just don't get why he gets thrown under the bus so easily. Manu could shoot under 40% for 10 games, make crucial turnovers late in the games, and then have one big 4th quarter and he's annoited. Barry can act passive, 0-for-whatever, and then he knocks down a couple 3's and the people that doubted him are told by the masses to eat crow. Elson can miss rotation after rotation and be constantly pulled aside by teammates and coaches, but Spurs fans think it's cool because he dunks.
But God forbid, Tony have a bad game.
Trade him.
When he didn't have a jumpshot, he struggled. And yes, he had tunnel vision at times. But honestly the bashing in this thread is out of control.
Up until last night, he was averaging very very few turnovers this season. Last night, he DID actually pass very well and his teammates missed a lot of layups and 3 pointers. Did he up in the 4th quarter? Yes a couple times. But the Bobcats were also clawing the ball from his hands.
I just don't get when people will be satisfied. You guys are acting like it's the norm that Tony puts his head down and ignores everyone on the team while shooting a sub par percentage and committing a ton of turnovers. And that's crap. People calling him an overrated All-Star in this thread and saying "so what" about his shooting percentage is stupid.
He was the most consistent Spur all last season. He has been the most consistent Spurs so far in this short season. What he's done in the paint has been simply amazing. And his jump shot is looking increasingly better all the time. Last year when he was "chucking" 20 shots a game, Pop said he wanted him to shoot 25.
I just don't get why he gets thrown under the bus so easily. Manu could shoot under 40% for 10 games, make crucial turnovers late in the games, and then have one big 4th quarter and he's annoited. Barry can act passive, 0-for-whatever, and then he knocks down a couple 3's and the people that doubted him are told by the masses to eat crow. Elson can miss rotation after rotation and be constantly pulled aside by teammates and coaches, but Spurs fans think it's cool because he dunks.
But God forbid, Tony have a bad game.
Trade him.
Kori expectations are high for Tony. I want him to get better when he cannot drive/dish/and penetrate.. if you notice I have not totally dogged him because I think he is improving. We all know he will see defenses geared to stop in when it counts the most and we all want him to be ready for it and to be able to affect the game without the ball in his hands... Personally I don't like seeing him take 3 pointers but he will and I will have to live with it.. I don't harass anybody else because Tony is the QB and along with that he gets praise when he doesn't deserve it and blame when he does not deserve it either..
Tony's been playing great this season. Yeah he's had some mistakes but he's the only one who's been consistently playing good and with Manu shooting at a career low % so far (I know it's still really early) I'd rather have Tony with the ball.
Everyone in this forum, especially in this thread needs to grab a copy of Walt Frazier's The Game Within The Game.
Walt's mentality and approach to the game are excatly what Mr. Parker needs. Losing matters especially senseless losses that could easily have been avoided. The only guy on this team that really looks depressed and bothered after a loss is Manu Ginobili (sometimes Tim Duncan).
If you don't think every Spurs player (except maybe Beno) gets very mad and bothered about losses, you are crazy. They are more hungry and driven to win then anybody posting in the forum about it. Sometimes the players can see the big picture better than fans can, but they definitely get pissed off when they lose.The only guy on this team that really looks depressed and bothered after a loss is Manu Ginobili (sometimes Tim Duncan).
People show disappointment in different ways. Unless you can actually read someone's mind, then you have no room to talk.
I remember seeing many players who never won in their career look disappointed after losing.....didn't do them any good.
I'm pretty sure Tony's fine about a close game against an underrated team on the second night of a back-to-back in November. And the reason why:
a. He knows Pop will have extra practice reps for the whole team to make up for this lapse
b. He will have to put in extra time in practice because he is basically a captain and role model
c. Since it's a home game he probably went home with Eva
ok ok o k....
THE GOAL IS SIMPLE:WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP
and to win this year we need:
-Tony keeping his current level and he will have 80% at FT for sure and probably the best FT shooter,the best perimeter shooter, 50% and + at FG % ...Then he will be the most consistent player on playoffs(you will see).Plus, POP give him now total trust
-we need Tim stoping shooting mid-range jumper and pass more the ball when there are 2 or 3 defenders on him instead of trying to finishing because either he will score 1/2 time or having FT but he sucks on the FT line.
-we need ginobili keeping his good defense and his vision of court but I don't see him as explosive as 2005(he's simply getting old)
-we need finley shooting at 50%
timvp gets it. That's exactly what I saw last night. Tony was trying to take on a bigger role in crunch time but he blew it. I love Tony and I think he's made tremendous strides but sometimes I wonder if he'll ever really be clutch.
Clutchness seems to be a quality that you either have or you don't. I think it's very difficult to become clutch. Tony seems to make more bad decisions when the pressure is really on than not. Manu may shoot 3-14 on a given night but when he needs to perform in the crunch he usually does, as he did last night. Tony is usually the opposite. The box score will show that he shot 50% but it doesn't show that most of his misses and bad decisions came at crucial times in the game.
Bottom line, we need both Tony and Manu but it would be nice as timvp said to have more guys we can count on in high pressure situations than just Manu and Horry. (Yes, even Timmy isn't highly clutch).
Like missing that WIDE open 3?Manu may shoot 3-14 on a given night but when he needs to perform in the crunch he usually does, as he did last night.
By the way, I'm not saying Manu isn't clutch. But Manu has had more than his fair share of boneheaded turnovers and missed shots in the clutch. Manu has had a lot more chances to be clutch than Tony (which is what LJ is saying).
And now that Tony has a decent jumpshot, Pop will be giving him more chances.
He didn't play well last night by turning over the ball late. But actually the majority of his misses were early in the game (I think he started out 1-for-6). He played well for a good stretch but didn't have it in the end.
Next time he will (or not).
C'mon Kori, you know he clawed us back into that game in the 4th. Missing one clutch shot doesn't make you unclutch. Tony missed several, in a short span. Manu missed that big shot but we wouldn't have been in that position at the end without his playmaking.
I've given up on ever believing most people around here will apply equal standards of evaluation to Manu vs. any other Spur. He is the Teflon King.
Did you read what I wrote in the next post?
True, but there's a reason Pop gives Manu more chances. He has proven himself to be more reliable than Tony in the crunch.
I hope he gets better under pressure. It's tough to learn how to do this without dropping some tough games, like last night.He didn't play well last night by turning over the ball late. But actually the majority of his misses were early in the game (I think he started out 1-for-6). He played well for a good stretch but didn't have it in the end.
Next time he will (or not
Ok, just did. I hear ya.
The Teflon Juan.
Manu is the reason we lost last year. Take him out of the equation and the spurs have another ring.
Yeah, I don't get why he is so much hated. I really don't.
It's beyond logic. It's like actual facts (FG%, stats, etc.), common sense or objectivity don't matter anymore.
I thought the basis for all the hate was just the anti-french sentiment that some people had during the preparation of the iraq war....But now it's been proven that the decision was indeed a mistake and the whole thing was a fiasco..I really don't know anymore....
But the one thing I know is that haterz will always hate, whatever he does. Now that's really sad....
Last edited by pppp; 11-17-2006 at 05:28 AM.
Yeah right. Take him out of the equation and Spurs get swept by the Mavs.
Remember how Manu won game 1 on that final defensive play?
and game 5 with his crucial steals?
Without Manu Game 7 equals Spurs getting their asses handed to them by 20 + Points and never getting the lead without Manu to spark that surge. Tim would have been the only one carrying the team while Tony was struggling that series due to his injury during the Kings series.
Uh, I thought the French ribbing was in jest. Let's not make a big deal out of this "hate" thing by losing perspective that Spurs fans are spoiled and show bias against Tony since he's came in as that young 19 year old unproven rookie. It's not "real Hate" it's just stupidity. Tony Parker is essential to Spurs success and we take for granted that we NEED him to emerge into his own and he can't do what Tim does, or what Manu does, and no one's being replaced because they all play DIFFERENT POSITIONS. He just has to keep improving, with him gaining a larger role and maturing, so that we have a good chance of winning it all every year for the next three years.
while we're at it, I was wondering something...
what is the average number of passes the spurs do on O before attempting a shot compared to other teams.
what about the lenght of attacks compared to other teams as well as % of time tony has the ball in his hands per offense...
could illustrate difference between nash role and tp role...
I see your point and I mostly agree. But I'm afraid there's people out there who just hate the guy....
Last edited by pppp; 11-17-2006 at 07:03 AM.
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