trade TONY?

[stretch]

Parker is clearly the second best player on this team. Manu is a distant 3rd. The rest of the team sucks though after Manu. Maybe a Steve Nash would help the rest of the players more but I doubt he is available. Kidd is not the player he once was so I don't see that as an improvement over Parker. San Antonio needs to get better at other position. (SF, C, Backup PG, SG not named Manu, Backup SF, Backup PF, and Backup Center) A lot of positions that need to be addressed so you have to look pass Parker, Manu, and Duncan on this.

you're nuts. Manu is FAR better than Tony Parker, and is much more important to this team than Parker. right now, while Duncan is the best player, and most important player, Ginobili is the heart and soul of the Spurs. he does so many little things for this team, its ridiculous. hes not just a good guard. the guy is a very good basketball player.

[DarkReign]

TP is a shoot-first, pass-second PG who sint a very good shooter. Hes an exceptional drive-talent with no talent for passing. Thats all well and good on a mediocre team with no championship asperations (see AI in Philly, Baron in GS, Starbury in NYK, etc), but not good on a championship team that needs a balanced threat to keep defenses honest.

That Miami game was indictment against TP. Much like the Pistons, when they face a superstar player like Bron or Wade, they play a weird zone, where whomever is on the star, plays man, and everyone else zones behind. That would almost work with TP, since he either a) cant pass or b) doesnt choose to.

He needs to go. Manu is awesome, but hes not a PG. His PIP stat is awesome and all, but he is better suited to a struggling franchise. Trade TP + 1st rounders + whatever for CP3 or Baron Davis. I know thats a dream, but SA needs a true PG, not TP.

And when, oh when, are Spurs fans going to finally get sick of Eva face time?! Jesus! Is it like that on your local broadcasts all the time, too?! Eva this, Eva that, bla bla bla. Detracts from watching Spurs games when every cut is to Eva either clapping or Ooooo-ing. Like I give a what she thinks or does.

[DarkReign]

It is good to get opinions from other teams' fans. I don't think the Spurs would ever get equal trade value on any reasonable trade proposal, so they would certainly be much better off keeping TP.

You have to give to get. Giving TP is not some schmuck PG for some other team. TP is definately a GOOD PG in a league with a vacuum at the position. The trick is trading him for a viable pass-first PG.

I dont CP3 is as untouchable as some think. And even if thats a pipe dream (which I am willing to admit), there are other veteran PGs who are available...especially if a blue-chip player like TP is in the deal.

[Spurminator]

Someone name the last team that traded their 2nd or 3rd best player and immediately improved.

Trading a young star player is something you do when your team is on an unsalvageable and permanent downward spiral. (Edit: Or someone is offering you Shaquille O'Neal) While this Spurs team may not have the talent to win a Championship this year or next, we do have flexibility in the near future to add pieces to make this a Championship team again. I'm not happy that we seem to be resting on our laurels until 2008... in fact, it pisses me off... but we're better off with that strategy than trading an All Star who also happens to be our only NBA-quality Point Guard. We will not get equal value for Parker.

[nkdlunch]

Eva, haven't seen a with more makeup since that guy's momma in that movie Brazil, then again she probly needs it:

[Kermit]

i'd still do her. it could be worse...

[ArgSpursFan]

Let Tony score and Duncan rebound. Let Manu create the plays.

You mean Move Manu to the SP spot and Parker to the SG?
they do it almost every game in the 4rd quarter.take a better look at any spurs game and you´ll see who is looking at POP when he calls the play,and you´ll see manu grabing the ball and tony runnin the court looking for and open look.
That´s been going on since 2003.

[lefty]

Eva, haven't seen a with more makeup since that guy's momma in that movie Brazil, then again she probly needs it:

[DarkReign]

Someone name the last team that traded their 2nd or 3rd best player and immediately improved.

Trading a young star player is something you do when your team is on an unsalvageable and permanent downward spiral. (Edit: Or someone is offering you Shaquille O'Neal) While this Spurs team may not have the talent to win a Championship this year or next, we do have flexibility in the near future to add pieces to make this a Championship team again. I'm not happy that we seem to be resting on our laurels until 2008... in fact, it pisses me off... but we're better off with that strategy than trading an All Star who also happens to be our only NBA-quality Point Guard. We will not get equal value for Parker.

I completely agree in that this sort of trade never actually has the return the teams are looking for, but I still feel the Spurs problems start with the PG and extend to a quality big-man alongside TD.

IMO, I would address the PG need first (due to the league-wide lack of talent at the postion), then the big via another method.

[nkdlunch]

where's that thread about Tony getting that close shave?? Maybe Tony needs to teach Eva how to shave?

[elbamba]

I would take Jason terry over parker any day and I hate the guy...

Terry is not half the player Tony is. But I guess if you want another scoring PG rather than one who can pass and set up teammates then I'm not sure why you have any problems with Tony who has never been suspended for a playoff game and almost destroyed the whole season for his team.

[Kori Ellis]

I'm not going to let you guys sit here and bash a player's significant other. Just like you can't bash Duncan's wife in the Spurs forum, you can't bash Eva in the Spurs forum. If you have any Eva Longoria commentary, take it to the Club - thanks.

[Kori Ellis]

I completely agree in that this sort of trade never actually has the return the teams are looking for, but I still feel the Spurs problems start with the PG and extend to a quality big-man alongside TD.

IMO, I would address the PG need first (due to the league-wide lack of talent at the postion), then the big via another method.

You think the Spurs problems start at PG?

That's hysterical.

The Spurs biggest problem is rebounding and interior D. That has nothing to do with the PG spot.

[elbamba]

WRONG....well partly..>Terry is in the 3 point contest so he's kinda an all-star

You might say Terry's situation is similar to that of the Mavs in general. Spurs win championships, Mavs make the finals, TP all star- Terry spectator at the all star game

[xapatan2]

You think the Spurs problems start at PG?

That's hysterical.

The Spurs biggest problem is rebounding and interior D. That has nothing to do with the PG spot.

Ah... Kori and Tim... I was saying to myself that i should take a 2 weeks time off the forum when i saw this post this morning ( for me now it is 5h45PM)...

Having the impression that american football fans ( i have nothing against american football fans by the way...) were spreading up the forum trying to share their view about basketball and game analysis...

Or i was wondering if it was hollidays time in America so that 10 years old fan of basketball ( may i precise that i have noting against10 years old fan of basketball, i was once a time ago ...) ware sharing their view after their third saw entirely game of the spurs...

don't know...

I won't even argue with the well known "posters crew against parker", i am already tired of helping people "open their eyes"... in a way that's my full day job...

But, Clap Clap and BIG BIG Props to you Kori for have the courage to argue or try to "open the eyes" in this nonsense post.

Xap'

[lefty]

where's that thread about Tony getting that close shave?? Maybe Tony needs to teach Eva how to shave?

[mavsfan1000]

Where do you get this certainity?

Did you realize that IN THE LAST RING GOTTEN BY SPURS...the one who was perhaps THE BEST (fighting inch to inch with Tim for the NBA PLAYOFFS AND FINALS MVP) was MANU AND NOT TONY?

Do you realize that, extra-stats, the difference between BASKETBALL IQ between Manu and Tony would be like comparing Einstein's IQ with yours?

Do you realize that Baskebtall IQ is useful for final quarters and playoffs, where the Deffense is harder ?

Do you realize that when the D is soft (crap games of regular season, and minutes before the final quarter), the one with better physical shape is the one who can score more, and that with weak D, Basketball IQ is less useful, cause any player with low IQ and great physical gifts can also score?

Even checking stats...do you realize that Manu....despite not being in his best shape.... THIS SEASON have more efficiency per minutes and points per minute than Tony?

How come a one-dimensional player like Tony, can be 'better' than a so unpredictable player in offense and so better defender, like Manu, can you explain? based just in pure scoring in crap games of regular season?

FWIW, I don't cpnsider Parker a bad player at all, but he's too one-dimensional and lacks court vision and basketball IQ, these are severe shortcoming when fighting in IMPORTANT GAMES OR MINUTES...and that's when Manu's superior Basketball IQ and variety of skills will always be a superior contribution to the Spurs to what Tony can bring.

Well this isn't 2 years ago. Parker has gotten a lot better while Manu has gotten a lot worse. How did you get the idea that Manu is more efficient? Parker shoots 53% from the field while Manu shoots 45% from the field.

[dbreiden83080]

Tony is too young with too much upside ahead of him. However in the offseason the Spurs maybe should look into trading Manu if it means getting a really good big man next to Duncan.

[gsRt5]

Tony is too young with too much upside ahead of him. However in the offseason the Spurs maybe should look into trading Manu if it means getting a really good big man next to Duncan.

NOw that does sound like a plan aswell. And I want to apologize for my ignorance last night.....I was a bit sleepy and talking out my azz....

But ya, I do agree if we keep parker we do need to beef up the center position and maybe get some better swingman......I never understood why POP never draws up more slashing patterns for Finley and Berry. I would, with Parker dumping the ball and TD just there for the rebounds it could work. Afterall TD seems like he is having problems with his shot lately......

Again I do apologize.......And I have been reading and taking in all ur comments and maybe Parker is not most of the problems.........I'll admit I am wrong!!

[Axl Van Dam]

Well is it just me or does anyone else think he is overrated and we should try to get something for him while his name is somewhat big?
Ive never liked his style of play and think of it wasnt for the rest of his team he wouldnt do much. I cant stand when he drives and then jumps and looks to dump the ball and there is nothing. He doesnt do it as much than previous years but he still pulls it every once and awhile.

Another thing before I let him off the hook, he hasnt showed up in a playoff game that I can remember. He has always been saved by the bench and it always gets overlooked but in the clutch he is soft..


I know this is my first thread but I dont plan on it being my last. Ive been a spurs fan since birth and I hope things get turned around. I say whats on my mind and wish I would of found this forum sooner....

Trading TP or any of our big 3 is not the solution to our problems. What we need is to get a back up PG for TP, the athletic SF, a big man to back up TD and quite possibly to take TD's place ( hoping for Pau Gasol ) and a back up for Manu. Pop also needs to start playing E Will who I think is a pretty decent defensive player to shadow the opossing teams top scorer. Even Bruce Bowen needs help.

[Dartherus]

Where do you get this certainity?

Did you realize that IN THE LAST RING GOTTEN BY SPURS...the one who was perhaps THE BEST (fighting inch to inch with Tim for the NBA PLAYOFFS AND FINALS MVP) was MANU AND NOT TONY?

Do you realize that, extra-stats, the difference between BASKETBALL IQ between Manu and Tony would be like comparing Einstein's IQ with yours?

Do you realize that Baskebtall IQ is useful for final quarters and playoffs, where the Deffense is harder ?

Do you realize that when the D is soft (crap games of regular season, and minutes before the final quarter), the one with better physical shape is the one who can score more, and that with weak D, Basketball IQ is less useful, cause any player with low IQ and great physical gifts can also score?

Even checking stats...do you realize that Manu....despite not being in his best shape.... THIS SEASON have more efficiency per minutes and points per minute than Tony?

How come a one-dimensional player like Tony, can be 'better' than a so unpredictable player in offense and so better defender, like Manu, can you explain? based just in pure scoring in crap games of regular season?

FWIW, I don't cpnsider Parker a bad player at all, but he's too one-dimensional and lacks court vision and basketball IQ, these are severe shortcoming when fighting in IMPORTANT GAMES OR MINUTES...and that's when Manu's superior Basketball IQ and variety of skills will always be a superior contribution to the Spurs to what Tony can bring.

Well this isn't 2 years ago. Parker has gotten a lot better while Manu has gotten a lot worse.

Is this all your answer? that now it's different and Tony is better and Manu worse? Have you seen Spurs games, close games, important games, hot minutes?

Are you denying that D is crap during regular season and that the legends are born in playoffs and finals?

No matter how 'better' Tony is now or how 'worse' Manu is, Manu is still WAAAAAY ahead of one-dimensional Tony regarding Basketball IQ or court vision, and that is something inherent to a player, not something that usually increases with training (as shooting or having better shape, for instance).

How did you get the idea that Manu is more efficient? Parker shoots 53% from the field while Manu shoots 45% from the field.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/emanue...ili/index.html
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tony_parker/index.html

Manu: 16.7 ppg and 17.04 Efficiency per game in 28.1 mpg
Tony: 19.0 ppg and 18.38 Effciency per game in 33.6 mpg

what part of 'efficiency PER MINUTE and points PER MINUTE than Tony' you don't understand?

Do you realize that translated to 33.6 mpg Manu's number would give 19.97 ppg and 20.38 Eff per game?

Of course that's hyptetical, and that's why I talk about PHYSICAL shape, abd that's why I say Tony is in better physical shape right now...but, my point is that as a BASKETBALL player, Manu is better, and even now, with his lack of shape, Manu is doing well even in regular season (that's NOT his speciality) with stats per minute even ahead Tony (whose main performance is gotten during regular season).

[Don Quixote]

You think the Spurs problems start at PG?

That's hysterical.

The Spurs biggest problem is rebounding and interior D. That has nothing to do with the PG spot.

Hear hear.

Look, Nash is the undisputed King of the Point Guards right now. No one questions that.

But it's not like we're wheeling out a chump every night ourselves. Tony has only been selected to the All-Star game twice -- by the coaches -- who have to play against him and figure out a way to stop him.

Spurs fans used to say the same crap about AJ.

[Don Quixote]

Wow, amazing, mind-blowing intellectual analysis here.

The home team is lousy and the natives blame one of their best players.

How about we address the lousy bench, the lack of rebounding, the poor shooting, the old legs, and lack of a real center first. Let's take care of those things, THEN let's talk about our allegedly crappy point guard.

[GoSpurs21]

Manu's BB IQ is so high it cost us the championship last year...if it is so high then how in the does he foul Dirk at the end of the game with the Spurs up by 3?

[Cherry]

What's ironic is that he is a good shooter, he is a good passer, he is a good defender, he is good at creating shots for himself and others, and he can hit clutch shots.