Scola shines on Tau´s win vs. Pau Orthez

[ploto]

With all the bigs under contract next year (five)- how is there room for Ian- especially if they bring Bonner back?

Tim, Elson, Fabricio, Horry, Butler, Bonner, and Ian-- and that doesn't even count Melvin. That's an awful lot of spots and money on big guys with all the small ball being played. Also assumes that Scola and Javtokas will never be Spurs. Spurs seem awfully heavy on big men and awfully light on the perimeter players they need the most- a SF and a back up PG.

[AFBlue]

So which team would be falling all over themselves to give Ely more than $3 million?

No team will "fall all over themselves" to sign a player for $3M though I appreciate the emphasis on how badly teams will "pine" for his services. Totally off the cuff thinking of a few teams that need a guy with a good combination of youth, experience, and ability to score in the low block...

Nets, Raptors, Bulls, Hawks, Rockets, T-Wolves, Kings, and Warriors. Out of that group I'd say the Nets need a guy like him the most. Point is, if he performs decent in the last few months/playoffs, he'll have interest from several teams in the league. Again if he doesn't, the he's probably not worth keeping around no matter what the price...

Why would anyone want to give up cap space and a pick for him if he is a bust? That's counter common sense.

Ok fine, get rid of the pick.

We have Ely, Butler and three draft picks. Any one of these has the potential of working out as well as you say Scola might. There are your options. Five of them.

The Spurs don't have Ely next year unless they choose to re-sign him. The Spurs may have three draft picks, but they also have legitimate needs elsewhere (namely backup PG and long SF) and those picks are low enough to assume that any player gotten with that pick would not be an immediate contributor (as Scola likely would be).

But hey Chump, let me give you this....

For the first time in our debate you've actually managed to post something solution-oriented rather than simply being critical. Congrats...

Actually Scola's agent set his value at $3 million a year. There is no market -- he's a draft pick. Can you find any second round draft pick that has been paid as much? Can you find any second round pick that has been paid more then the minimum?

See the comments I made about his situation being unique. To recap, were he a FA, he could easily get the 3yr $10M deal. The Spurs do have a right to low-ball him as they exclusively own his rights, but he has just as much right to stay overseas, and as the situation prolongs his value dips lower and lower.

[ducks]

HE IS NOT A FA THOUGH HE IS A SECOND ROUND DRAFT PICK THAT IS TICKED HE WENT SECOND ROUND INSTEAD OF FIRST ROUND

scola is stupid signing 10 year contracts is stupid
sign 2-9 years with player option
if you sign a 10 years you are a IDIOT

[ducks]

does anyone know what is his buyout will be this offseason

[AFBlue]

Why should Scola deserve more than Manu when he entered the league? He was much more proven with far fewer questions about his adaptability to the game.

I understand the precedent he's trying to set, but I'm talking about value relative to other Euroleague players who have recently come from overseas (Garbajosa, Parker, Nocioni, Jasikevicius, etc.). Would you agree that the culture of bringing players from overseas has changed drastically in the past few years? When Manu came over, there wasn't a big infusion of talent from the Euroleague...he was a relatively new "breed". That market has evolved and, like it or not, the Spurs have to evolve with it.

Oh and Manu was a frail kid that liked to create contact leading to nagging injuries (still a problem he has to this day). I wouldn't that there were FAR fewer questions about Manu's ability to play in the NBA (Rudy Fernandez is receiving similar criticism). I also wouldn't say he was MUCH MORE proven than Scola overseas. Both of them have MVPs and both have won les. Both are/were considered "superstars" in the league. I like it how you downplay Scola's importance with selectively placed vague words though...

[ducks]

the spurs have they offered oberta more then what they would have
a year or 2 ago
oberto can not even come to play every night even though he is paid to do
and oberto best thing is energy and when he does not bring that he is useless
spurs were burned with him
if you owened the spurs would that make you want to pay this scola 6 mle to see if he is going to do the same thing?

[ChumpDumper]

With all the bigs under contract next year (five)- how is there room for Ian- especially if they bring Bonner back?

Tim, Elson, Fabricio, Horry, Butler, Bonner, and Ian-- and that doesn't even count Melvin. That's an awful lot of spots and money on big guys with all the small ball being played. Also assumes that Scola and Javtokas will never be Spurs. Spurs seem awfully heavy on big men and awfully light on the perimeter players they need the most- a SF and a back up PG.

I'm sure they are looking to trade Butler and possibly Oberto. Horry may or may not retire and I'm not totally sure his final year is fully guaranteed. Bonner is actually a free agent so I don't know how you can count him as being under contract.

That brings me back to my point about Scola vs. Ely -- if Ely goes for about $3.5 million or less, the Spurs won't need to use exception money on him. Nor would they with Bonner. Nor would Ian. That frees them up to use that money on other positions.

[ploto]

I did not count Bonner-- five without him. 7 with Bonner and Ian. 8 if you add Ely. Horry does not intend to retire, so the Spurs will have to force him out. As for trades, those are not guaranteed to happen. To say NOW that Ian is signing seems premature.

[AFBlue]

the spurs have they offered oberta more then what they would have
a year or 2 ago
oberto can not even come to play every night even though he is paid to do
and oberto best thing is energy and when he does not bring that he is useless
spurs were burned with him
if you owened the spurs would that make you want to pay this scola 6 mle to see if he is going to do the same thing?

Scola is not Oberto. Even OBERTO will tell you "I'm no Scola". Scola has a much better offensive game and much better athleticism than Oberto. He may not be dominant in the NBA at first, or ever possibly, but he's already better than Oberto without setting foot on an NBA court.

[ChumpDumper]

I understand the precedent he's trying to set, but I'm talking about value relative to other Euroleague players who have recently come from overseas (Garbajosa, Parker, Nocioni, Jasikevicius, etc.). Would you agree that the culture of bringing players from overseas has changed drastically in the past few years? When Manu came over, there wasn't a big infusion of talent from the Euroleague...he was a relatively new "breed". That market has evolved and, like it or not, the Spurs have to evolve with it.

Not if they don't have to. They don't have to. That's the entire point of having a draft.

Oh and Manu was a frail kid that liked to create contact leading to nagging injuries (still a problem he has to this day). I wouldn't that there were FAR fewer questions about Manu's ability to play in the NBA (Rudy Fernandez is receiving similar criticism). I also wouldn't say he was MUCH MORE proven than Scola overseas. Both of them have MVPs and both have won les. Both are/were considered "superstars" in the league. I like it how you downplay Scola's importance with selectively placed vague words though...

I like how you downplay Manu's with similarly vague terms.

So everything is equal between them in your eyes, yet Scola deserves three times the money. I don't agree that the market has changed because Scola is not a free agent. If you can find me any second rounder that makes that kind of scratch, your point will have been made.

[ploto]

I do have one question. We know that first round picks are guaranteed a specific contract. Can they demand that whenever they want it. Can Ian say this summer- I want my contract now and the team has to sign him.

[ducks]

scola, ian and ely
scola does require the expection and most of it because scola thinks he is all that
like most posters know
backup point guard and long sf are two big weakness
if spurs sign scola they can not address those needs....
the draft picks will not be ready to contribute this year...
rather the spurs go into the tax is a differerent story but signing booner,ian and ely gives them the option if they want to

[ducks]

Scola is not Oberto. Even OBERTO will tell you "I'm no Scola". Scola has a much better offensive game and much better athleticism than Oberto. He may not be dominant in the NBA at first, or ever possibly, but he's already better than Oberto without setting foot on an NBA court.

damm I would hope so if you want to give him 6
oberto makes 2.5

[ChumpDumper]

I do have one question. We know that first round picks are guaranteed a specific contract. Can they demand that whenever they want it. Can Ian say this summer- I want my contract now and the team has to sign him.

He can say that, and if the Spurs turn him down he can re-enter the draft the following summer -- provided he doesn't play professional basketball for a year. Otherwise the Spurs retain his rights.

[AFBlue]

Not if they don't have to. They don't have to. That's the entire point of having a draft.I like how you downplay Manu's with similarly vague terms.

You're right Chump, they don't have to (see how I conceded a point there...). My point is though, that if they remain inactive they do so to the detriment of the team as a whole. It's my opinion that Scola has more value to this team as a member than as a trade asset right now, and especially as a trade asset in the future. Since it's my opinion and you obviously feel differently, I think we'll just agree to disagree on Scola's true value.

I like how you downplay Manu's with similarly vague terms.

Well I knew you'd appreciate it....

So everything is equal between them in your eyes, yet Scola deserves three times the money. I don't agree that the market has changed because Scola is not a free agent. If you can find me any second rounder that makes that kind of scratch, your point will have been made.

I didn't argue that Scola would not be setting a precedent. I conceded that point as well (see there I go again, giving credit where it's due). In terms of "actual value", yes I think Scola deserves $3M per year. If Garbajosa does, if Parker does, then I think Scola does. Arguing the fact that he's a second round pick is semantics.

Bottom Line: If the Spurs want Scola, they'll have to pony up $3M per year. If they think that's too much, he'll get the Spurs maybe 5 spots in the draft this year, and less each year thereafter.

[ploto]

How does it work that way-- isn't he guaranteed that money by the Spurs by virtue of their drafting him in the first round? Why should he have to wait for it? What's the point then of guarantees for first round picks if the team can decide they don't want him after all and then he has to sit out a year to ever get into the NBA? Seems if the team who drafts you with a first round pick won't sign you then you should be a FA.

[AFBlue]

damm I would hope so if you want to give him 6
oberto makes 2.5

Never said 6 mil ducks. $3M per year. The only "$6M" figure mentioned was Chump's hypothetical that the Spurs would have to eat the second and third years of Scola's contract if he ended up being a bust (2yrs * $3M/yr).

[ChumpDumper]

Bottom Line: If the Spurs want Scola, they'll have to pony up $3M per year. If they think that's too much, he'll get the Spurs maybe 5 spots in the draft this year, and less each year thereafter.

I think if Scola wants to play for the Spurs, he'll have to take less -- and since he was a #57 or whatever, it's not an enormous loss.

[ducks]

scola was not drafted in the first round
players know the rules before they enter the draft
if a team picks them they have to be paid a certain amount of money and years
the team does not have to sign them right away though
if the player wants to be signed he can tell the team that
then he can not play pro ball for a year then he can be a fa

[ChumpDumper]

How does it work that way-- isn't he guaranteed that money by the Spurs by virtue of their drafting him in the first round? Why should he have to wait for it? What's the point then of guarantees for first round picks if the team can decide they don't want him after all and then he has to sit out a year to ever get into the NBA? Seems if the team who drafts you with a first round pick won't sign you then you should be a FA.

You can be a free agent. Just don't play pro basketball for a year. The rookie scale was set up to keep teams from spending hundreds of millions of dollars on unproven players, not as an automatic reward for being drafted.

[ducks]

Never said 6 mil ducks. $3M per year. The only "$6M" figure mentioned was Chump's hypothetical that the Spurs would have to eat the second and third years of Scola's contract if he ended up being a bust (2yrs * $3M/yr).

will scola be happy with 3?

spurs will see what they do in the playoffs and then see what the biggest needs are then
if it is rebounding
scola does not solve that problem
a trade for evans solves it better

[ploto]

It still makes no sense. A team drafts a guy with a first round pick that comes with it a guaranteed amonut of money- but the team never actually has to give the guy the money.

[ducks]

do you not love the rules?

[ploto]

You can be a free agent. Just don't play pro basketball for a year. The rookie scale was set up to keep teams from spending hundreds of millions of dollars on unproven players, not as an automatic reward for being drafted.

I knew that year was the rule for second round picks- but I though first round picks were guaranteed their contracts. Why did people make such a big deal then about the Spurs drafting Ian with a first round pick because they never have to bring him in either??

[ChumpDumper]

It still makes no sense. A team drafts a guy with a first round pick that comes with it a guaranteed amonut of money- but the team never actually has to give the guy the money.

No owner would allow for their team to be forced to take on a draft pick it turns out they didn't want.