The Counter Adjustment

[FromWayDowntown]

Yes, I agree.

If Pop is thinking along these lines, he prolly won't make any adjustments for Game 3 either. If so, things will be more or less constant and it will be easier to answer your question.

Oh, I think Pop will make an adjustment -- I'd be shocked if he decided to just pound it in to Duncan and to play stationary basketball with the guys who aren't feeding the post. I'd expect more ball movement -- particularly reversals -- more off-the-ball movement, and a greater commitment to attacking the rack out of guys who are able to do that.

The more the Spurs can move the Suns' defense by moving the ball, the better off they'll be, I think.

[ShoogarBear]

adjustment

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SJax ain't gettin it done.

Good idea. Why didn't I think of that?

[LavaLamp]

I see what you mean. Maybe no fundamental line-up changes from Pop but definitely changes in execution.

[td4mvp21]

He played a whole lot more in the playoffs than whom he was traded for-- Bonner and Ely COMBINED.

Rasho ing sucks. He wasn't even playing in the NJ series by Game 6. Explain that to me, if he is such an effective player?

[Behrooz24]

I think it's time for Bruce to unleash his secret post up game on Nash

[Solid D]

Exactly...what makes anyone think Pop is going to let Barry play? Pop has been waiting for an excuse all year to bench him in favor of Finley...and he finally got that chance when Barry went out for a few games with "tightness" in his back. He's been banned from playing ever since.

Barry played at the beginning of the 2nd and 4th quarters in Game 2 (15 minutes).

He played for like 3 minutes in the 2nd...and garbage time in the 4th. Did you watch, or look at the box score?

Well, yes I watched the game and then watched the DVR replay but you said that Barry had been banned from playing since Barry sat out with "tightness". (see your above quote). I was just detailing what actually happened. Barry played 3 minutes at the start of the 2nd quarter and then he started the 4th quarter with the Spurs trailing by 7 and played the rest of the game.

http://www.nba.com/games/20070508/SA...laybyplay.html

Perhaps you were exaggerating to make your point more convincing...but that's for you to admit and for me to suggest.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Que Gee, Solid D is easily one of the best/most knowledgeable posters on here, the guy always hits the nail on the head, so quit wasting your time arguing with him

[Man of Steel]

From the Spurs' perspective, I could see why you like this idea. A few drawbacks:

-Thomas, Marion, and Stoudemire would outrebound that lineup, and I don't think the Suns have lost a game this year when they outrebounded their opponent.
-Even if Stoudemire is taken out of the game, Diaw is excellent against a smaller defender. Finley, Ginobili, or Barry cannot guard him.
-Who would guard Kurt Thomas?
-It would leave with you a bench of: Horry, Bowen, Oberto, Elson. Not much offense coming from those four.

I'm more worried about this starting lineup:

Duncan-Finley-Ginobili-Bowen-Parker

That would force Amare to guard Finley, thus limiting his effectiveness on the glass. You'd still have Barry and Horry coming off the bench; assuming that one of those two hits their 3's, you'd still have some offense off the bench. Plus, if you take Bowen out of the starting lineup, you'd put a weaker defender on both Marion and Nash.

I enjoy reading your posts--well thoughout out, articulate, intelligent.

Props.

[Xylus]

I enjoy reading your posts--well thoughout out, articulate, intelligent.

Props.

Thanks man, I do what I can.

[Solid D]

When the Suns put Thomas and Stoudemire on the court at the same time, perhaps the Spurs can counter with:

Parker
Ginobili
Barry
Finley
Duncan

Yes, it's the dreaded small ball lineup, but this time it actually makes sense.

I thought I remembered seeing this lineup so I went back and checked. In the 4th quarter of Game 2 with about 9:45 remaining. The Spurs had the following lineup:

Parker
Ginobili
Barry
Finley
Duncan

The Suns went on a 7-0 run...Fin hit a 3...then Nash scored 2 FTs and finished 9-3 before Pop inserted Bowen for Gino. It continued downward from there, as we all remember.

The only thing was...Stoudamire was sitting and Kurt guarded Tim.

Oh well. Sometimes small-ball works and sometimes it doesn't.

[timvp]

Yeah, that lineup makes no sense if Stoudemire is sitting. Exploiting the matchup of Amare on a perimeter player is the main part.

Barry isn't playing well enough right now to warrant court time in any other situation.

[bobbyjoe]

Realistically, the best counter is not an adjustment but simply for Duncan to play even better and punish the Suns for 40-45 pts so they will be forced to abandon their single coverage with Kurt Thomas, double down, and get open looks again for Finley/Barry/Bowen etc.

I think the Marion vs. Parker adjustment was more problematic for SA. Duncan, being the great that he is, will likely find a way to solve Kurt Thomas. But will Parker be able to beat Marion like a drum like he's done in the past to Nash? If not, that could be a problem. Parker owning the Suns is a HUGE reason for the Spurs recent ownership of PHO.

[bobbyjoe]

Several excellent points in this thread. My 2 cents ...

1. Don't go small, at least not all the time. The problem was that with Kurt Thomas in the line-up, the Suns were at one point in the game outrebounding us (although we evened it at the end). If the Suns outrebound us, it's over. Playing 4-down, Tim going 1-on-1 vs Thomas, taking difficult bank shots from 12 feet, everybody else standing still = us getting hurt in rebounding. We need more screen and roll, more dribble penetration from Manu and Tony. Tim can be freed up to attack the boards.

2. Start Manu over Finley. If we want less 4-down and more guard penetration, Manu needs to be on early.

3. Defensively, don't put Bowen on Nash. Put Bowen on Marion and neutralize him. Give Tony a shot vs Nash. I'm willing to bet that the increase in Nash's effectiveness will be less than the decrease in Marion's effectiveness.

4. Despite all that, if Tony can't get his jumper going, and Manu can't start making some shots, it's going to end in a Spurs loss. We need to get more from our starting guards, and that will force them to leave our role-players open.

Marion has been neutralized even with Bowen not on him. He's been a non factor offensively in Games 1 and 2.

A guy like Shawn Marion is a "garbage man". He gets his buckets mainly in transition, offensive rebounding, and cuts to the hoop. Against a team like the Spurs who are so good on the defensive glass and at denying transition and penetration, a guy like Marion will just not be as effective, regardless of who is guarding him.

Putting Bowen on him would be a waste. Marion is not an iso wing player like Kobe, TMac, Iverson, etc who Bowen tends to disrupt and hassle.

Where Marion is hurting SA was in Game 2 with his D on parker, altering his shots and D'ing him up way better than Nash/Barbosa were.

Truth is, there is no great matchup for Bowen this series. I do agree that Parker may actually defend Nash better than Bowen.

[Solid D]

Game 3:

Ball movement was much better tonight and people didn't just stand around and watch Timmy shoot as much either.

D was great for 48....and they made more shots.

[Kori Ellis]

Marion has been neutralized even with Bowen not on him. He's been a non factor offensively in Games 1 and 2.

A guy like Shawn Marion is a "garbage man". He gets his buckets mainly in transition, offensive rebounding, and cuts to the hoop. Against a team like the Spurs who are so good on the defensive glass and at denying transition and penetration, a guy like Marion will just not be as effective, regardless of who is guarding him.

Putting Bowen on him would be a waste. Marion is not an iso wing player like Kobe, TMac, Iverson, etc who Bowen tends to disrupt and hassle.

Where Marion is hurting SA was in Game 2 with his D on parker, altering his shots and D'ing him up way better than Nash/Barbosa were.

Truth is, there is no great matchup for Bowen this series. I do agree that Parker may actually defend Nash better than Bowen.

Are you a new Suns fan? Bowen has been owning Marion when matched with him for years.