40% Still Believe Saddam Behind 911

[Yonivore]

I was posting what ChumpDumper had posted originally, which you asked Clambake to re-post because you have Chump on ignore. Really, are you that dense?

Sorry, I didn't realize you were carrying clambake's water.

I went back and looked, it was several posts after I told clambake that if he wanted me to know what SpazMaster was saying he'd have to quote him.

Your post doesn't mention why you were posting the president's interview exchange. And, in the context of the thread, at that point, it appeared you were presening the exchange as some sort of support for clambake's argument, not as a response to my request.

Hey, it's an online forum, we don't all have knowledge of your intimate relationship with clambake. Maybe if I'd know you finish his sentences, I would have picked up on the fact you were covering his ass.

Or, maybe, you could say, "here's the interview to which clambake is referring."

Or, you could have simply "quoted" SpunkSipper.

[fyatuk]

Yoni, I'm not a lefty and you are an idiot if you believe that Saddam was involved in either financing or logistics of the September 11, attacks.

In all fairness, there is the possibility that Saddam was INDIRECTLY involved in Financing, since he was known to give money to terrorist groups (who then may have contributed that money to Osama). No way he was involved with bin Laden directly though. He was very much anti-al Qaeda, as shown by the fact that he refused to help them several times on other matters.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Sorry, I didn't realize you were carrying clambake's water.

I went back and looked, it was several posts after I told clambake that if he wanted me to know what SpazMaster was saying he'd have to quote him.

Your post doesn't mention why you were posting the president's interview exchange. And, in the context of the thread, at that point, it appeared you were presening the exchange as some sort of support for clambake's argument, not as a response to my request.

Hey, it's an online forum, we don't all have knowledge of your intimate relationship with clambake. Maybe if I'd know you finish his sentences, I would have picked up on the fact you were covering his ass.

Or, maybe, you could say, "here's the interview to which clambake is referring."

and maybe you could start crediting your sources when you cut and paste entire blogs and articles and pass them off as your own original thoughts. hey, nobody's perfect I guess

[Yonivore]

and maybe you could start crediting your sources when you cut and paste entire blogs and articles and pass them off as your own original thoughts.

Nah.

hey, nobody's perfect I guess

No ?

[boutons_]

All the academic, legalistic polemics aside, none of what Saddam did or had (he had nothing) was direct threat to the USA nor, above all, did the sum of it justify the invasion.

[clambake]

Yoni doesn't posses any original thoughts. Frankly, he's not capable of simple deduction. The possibility of deliberately misleading and distorting collusive evidence has managed to escape him. He thinks he knows more than someone, who was present and responsible, for actions that he publicly regrets. I don't think a person can get more inside than that. But yoni would have you believe otherwise.

I'll just anxiously await someone else's thoughts through Yoni's narration.

[fyatuk]

All the academic, legalistic polemics aside, none of what Saddam did or had (he had nothing) was direct threat to the USA nor, above all, did the sum of it justify the invasion.

True he had nothing to be a direct threat to the US. I've always supported that Saddam needed to be removed (for past crimes against humanity, continuing support of anti-israeli terrorism, stealing money from "food for oil" which was do ented within a year of the program starting, and obvious plans to restart WMD research as soon as sanctions were lifted, etc.) and a repeal of sanctions when possible, but the timing was just idiotic.

Saddam was certainly a threat, even the ISG deemed that, just not an immediate threat. He was a contained threat. Don't forget that regime change in Iraq was government policy even during the Clinton years.

The administration should have let inspectors continue their work while we got Afghanistan straightened out, then worried about Iraq. Now we have a mess in both countries.

[Yonivore]

No way he was involved with bin Laden directly though. He was very much anti-al Qaeda, as shown by the fact that he refused to help them several times on other matters.

Captured Iraqi Do ent ISGC-2004-019920 Page 6

ISGZ-2004-019920 is a 2002 Iraqi Intelligence Correspondence concerning the presence of al-Qaida Members in Iraq. Correspondence between IRS members on a su ion, later confirmed, of the presence of an Al-Qaeda terrorist group. Moreover, it includes photos and names.

Does the guy on page 6 look familiar?

Captured Iraqi Do ent ISGQ-2003-00004500-0

As translated, ISGQ-2003-00004500-0 demonstrates Saddam Hussein’s government was aware not just of the presence of Al Qaeda terrorist Abu Mus’ab Al Zarqawi, but also was aware that the Anbar province in Iraq was being used as a launch point for organized groups of jihadis headed to fight the United States in Afghanistan.

The do ent, addressed to the Security Board, Fedayeen Saddam at the office of the Presidency in Iraq, reports what it describes as a “rumor”, says:

there is a group of Iraqi and Saudi Arabians numbering around 3,000 who have gone in an unofficial capacity to Afghanistan and have joined the mujahidin to fight with and aid them in defeating the American Zionist Imperialist attack

This clearly indicates that Iraq was being used as a transit point or launch point for Saudi Arabian jihadis, as well as Iraqis, who wanted to go join the forces of Osama Bin Laden in Iraq in November 2001, nearly a year and a half before the US and Coalition forces commenced military action against Saddam Hussein’s regime.

Do ent: ISGZ-2004-009247

ISGZ-2004-009247, as tranlated, is a report in which the Iraqis talk about their meeting with Osama Bin Laden... In the meeting, Bin Laden asked the Iraqis for joint operations against the Foreign forces (US military) in the land of Hijaz (Saudia or Saudi Arabia)."

In the Name of God the Most Merciful and the Most Compassionate.

The Saudi Opposition and Achieving the Relation and Contact With Them

(Translation of part of Page 4)

2. The Comission of Reform and Advise

Lead by the Saudi Osama Bin Laden who belongs to a wealthy Saudi family with her roots go back to Hadramoot and connected strongly with the ruling family in Saudia, and he is one of the leaders of the Arab Afghan who volunteered for Jihad in Afghanistan, and after the expulsion of the Soviets he moved to stay in Sudan in the year 1992 after the arrival of the Islamists to power in Sudan.

And because of his stands against the Saudi Royal family because of the foreign presence inside it, the Saudi authorities made a decision to withdraw his Saudi citizenship, and we moved toward The Comission from our side and through the following:

Translation of page 5

A. During the visit of the Sudanese Dr. Abrahim Al Sanoosi to the country and his meeting with Mr. Uday Saddam Hussein on 13/12/1994 and with the presence of the respectful Sir the Director of the Apparatus he indicated that the opposition person Osama Bin Laden who is staying in Sudan and who was cautious and fears that he will be accused by his opponents that he became an agent for Iraq, is ready to meet with him in Sudan (The results of the meeting were written to the Honorable Presidency according to our letter 872 on 17/12/1994).

B. The approval of the Honorable Presidency was granted to meet with the opposition person Osama Bin Laden by the Apparatus according to letter 128 on 11/1/1995 (attachment 6) and the meting with him was completed by Mr. M.A ex-4th Directory in Sudan and with the presence of the Sudanese Dr. Abrahim AL Sanoosi on 19/2/1995 and a discussion occurred about his organization, and he requested the broadcasting of Sheikh Sleiman AL Awada (who has influence in Saudia and outside since he is a known and influential religious personality) and dedicate a program for them through the station directed inside the country and make joint operations against the forces of infidels in the land of Hijaz ( the Honorable Presidency has been notified with the details of the meeting according to our letter 370 in 4/3/1995 attachment 7).

Captured Iraqi Do ent CMPC-2003-001488

Do ent CMPC-2003-001488, as translated:

In the name of God the merciful the compassionate Presidency of the Republic Intelligence Service 2/913/5th directorate

Sir: Director General of the 5th directorate
Subject: Information

Our Afghani source #002 (info on him in paper slip ‘1’) has informed us that Afghani consular Ahmed Dahistani (info on him in paper slip ‘2’) had spoken before him of the following:

1- That Usama Bin Ladin and the Taliban group in Afghanistan are in contact with Iraq and that a group from the Taliban and Usama Bin Ladin’s group had conducted a visit to Iraq.

2- That America possesses evidence that Iraq and Usama Bin Ladin’s group had cooperated to strike targets inside America.

3- Incase Taliban and Usama’s group are proven involved in those sabotage operations, it will be possible that America directs strikes at Iraq and Afghanistan.

4- That the Afghani consular had heard about the Iraq connections with Usama Bin Ladin’s group during his presence in Iran.

5- In the light of what preceded we suggest writing to the Intentions Committee about the above information.

Please be informed…..your feedback please…..with appreciation.
)signature) (signature(
Information office send immediately to the
Of the 5th directorate/3 Intentions Committee
9/15/2001

Then, there is this memo as reported by Stephen Hayes in the Weekly Standard:

OSAMA BIN LADEN and Saddam Hussein had an operational relationship from the early 1990s to 2003 that involved training in explosives and weapons of mass destruction, logistical support for terrorist attacks, al Qaeda training camps and safe haven in Iraq, and Iraqi financial support for al Qaeda--perhaps even for Mohamed Atta--according to a top secret U.S. government memorandum obtained by THE WEEKLY STANDARD.

The memo, dated October 27, 2003, was sent from Undersecretary of Defense for Policy Douglas J. Feith to Senators Pat Roberts and Jay Rockefeller, the chairman and vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

The primary go-between throughout these early stages was Sudanese strongman Hassan al-Turabi, a leader of the al Qaeda-affiliated National Islamic Front. Numerous sources have confirmed this. One defector reported that "al-Turabi was instrumental in arranging the Iraqi-al Qaeda relationship. The defector said Iraq sought al Qaeda influence through its connections with Afghanistan, to facilitate the transshipment of proscribed weapons and equipment to Iraq. In return, Iraq provided al Qaeda with training and instructors."

Stephen Hayes also has a Weekly Standard report on Saddam's terror training camps published in January, 2006, from captured Saddam do ents claiming-

"Saddam Hussein trained thousands of radical Islamic terrorists from the region at camps in Iraq over the four years immediately preceding the U.S. invasion."

Then there is the story on Al Qaeda's current leader in Iraq, Abu al Masri, who took over the reins of terror after Al Zarqawi had a 500 pound bomb drop in on him in April of this year.

Abu al Masri, the current head of Al Qaeda in Iraq, organized terror camps in southern Iraq after he fled Afghanistan when the Taliban government fell in 2001.

From Military.com:

Al-Masri - which means "the Egyptian" - is another foreign fighter who trained in Afghanistan like Zarqawi, coalition officials said. No one knows his real name.

The terrorist is said to be about 38 years old and got his beginning in Egypt, where he joined the Islamic Brotherhood. He fled from Egypt and moved to Afghanistan, where he trained in explosives at the al-Faruq Al Qaeda camp. There he met Zarqawi, officials said.

After the fall of the Taliban, Masri escaped to Iraq and set up with the Jordanian-born Zarqawi. The Egyptian specialized in vehicle-borne improvised explosive devices. He helped establish the Baghdad cell of Al Qaeda in early 2003, officials said.

To say there is "no way" Saddam Hussein was involved with al Qaeda ignores this and a decade of history containing evidence of a relationship between the Ba'athist regime of Iraq and Islamo-fascist terror groups, including al Qaeda.

[Yonivore]

Yoni doesn't posses any original thoughts. Frankly, he's not capable of simple deduction. The possibility of deliberately misleading and distorting collusive evidence has managed to escape him.

Present some evidence of collusion. Let's talk about it.

He thinks he knows more than someone, who was present and responsible, for actions that he publicly regrets. I don't think a person can get more inside than that. But yoni would have you believe otherwise.

What actions did Colin Powell say he regretted?

I'll just anxiously await someone else's thoughts through Yoni's narration.

Cool.

[Yonivore]

I don't think a person can get more inside than that.

Here's an insider you don't believe...

Iraqi Official Testifies to Links Between Saddam and Al Qaeda

[Yonivore]

And another insider:

Angelo Codevilla is a teacher of international relations at Boston University and former Senate Intelligence Committee staffer. In "Intelligence failures," Professor Codevilla reviews the memoir by George Tenet covering his tenure at the CIA. Professor Codevilla observes: "The CIA has always valued fighting battles in Washington more than fighting America's battles abroad." Professor Codevilla shows how Tenet fights one particular Washington battle in the book:

The Agency confuses "the intelligence itself" and "what the intelligence says" with its own conclusions, dismissing any facts that lead to contrary conclusions as "cherry picking," "fragments," or " their own set of facts." The CIA argues strictly by its own authority, and by making up standards to fit its needs in any given cir stance. In 2002, the Agency had concluded that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. Tenet certified this by prominently sitting behind then-Secretary of State Colin Powell as he delivered his February 5, 2002 testimonial to the United Nations. In his book, Tenet explains: "It would have been helpful to have clarified that the use of the words ‘we judge' and ‘we assess' meant we were making analytical judgments, not stating facts." Confusing fact and judgment in one direction was convenient at the time. Distinguishing them became convenient later.

Despite these confusions, he still maintains that "one thing is certain, we consistently told the Congress and the administration that the intelligence did not show any Iraqi authority, direction, or control over any of the many specific terrorist acts carried out by al-Qa'ida." That's weasel-worded longhand for saying Saddam Hussein's Iraq was not responsible for terrorism. But why should we care whether Iraq's government bodies exercised "authority, direction, and control" over specific acts? Isn't it more significant to ask about the many ways in which Saddam's Iraq contributed to terrorism? Tenet had informed the Senate in February 2002 that Iraq "has also had contacts with al-Qa'ida. Their ties may be limited by diverging ideologies, but the two sides' mutual antipathy toward the United States and the Saudi royal family suggests that tactical cooperation between them was possible." He acknowledges that Saddam provided training, safe haven, and contacts to al-Qaeda and lots of other terrorists. He also mentions that the vice president's staff brought "such detailed knowledge on people, sources, and timelines that the senior CIA analytic manager doing the briefing that day simply could not compete." But Tenet tells us that the CIA discounted "reporting that suggested a deeper relationship" between Saddam and al-Qaeda because "[r]egional analysts who focus on geographic areas believed that fundamental distrust stemming from stark ideological differences…significantly limited the cooperation that was suggested by the reporting" (emphasis added). In short, Tenet and the CIA simply dismissed as opinion the facts that displeased them, and called facts their own favorite beliefs.

I think we have at least one of our deliberate misleaders folks.

[clambake]

Here's an insider you don't believe...

Iraqi Official Testifies to Links Between Saddam and Al Qaeda

Another hilarious post by Yoni. Giving credibility to this guy. What a joke.

[clambake]

Oh, by the way, deliberate misleading does not equal intelligence failure.

[Yonivore]

Another hilarious post by Yoni. Giving credibility to this guy. What a joke.

So, offer your counter to his testimony. Why is to what he testified incredible?

[ChumpDumper]

There's an Iraqi do ent from four days after 9/11 saying an Afghani told the Iraqis that the US had evidence that Osama and Iraq had cooperated to strike targets in America?

So where is that US evidence?

Still translating from English to English?

You're falling into the same trap Feith -- described by Tommy Franks on the record as "the dumbest ing guy on the planet" -- did. Making the evidence fit the conclusion you've already reached.

[ChumpDumper]

Here's an insider you don't believe...

Iraqi Official Testifies to Links Between Saddam and Al Qaeda

So he gave the CIA this evidence eight months ago....

....what happened to it?

And Salih is an insider now, not when he was PM of the PUK.

[Wild Cobra]

There's an Iraqi do ent from four days after 9/11 saying an Afghani told the Iraqis that the US had evidence that Osama and Iraq had cooperated to strike targets in America?

There is? First I hears of it...

Who said that?

[ChumpDumper]

There is? First I hears of it...

Who said that?

You don't even read Yoni's posts!

Don't worry, he doesn't either.

[Wild Cobra]

You don't even read Yoni's posts!

Don't worry, he doesn't either.

If you mean the linked materaial, I didn't see it in the four day context. I am not aware of any material placing Osama and Saddam (or Iraq) in talks about attacking the USA. Links yes, specific intel of such talks of direct attacks, no.

How many links can a chain have?

I didn't see it in Yoni's posts anywhere. What am I missing?

[clambake]

I guess there can be as many links as a person/persons want, especially if they're the ones fabricating the chain.

[Wild Cobra]

You don't even read Yoni's posts!

Don't worry, he doesn't either.

If you mean the linked materaial, I didn't see it in the four day context. I am not aware of any material placing Osama and Saddam (or Iraq) in talks about attacking the USA. Links yes, specific intel of such talks of direct attacks, no.

How many links can a chain have?

I didn't see it in Yoni's posts anywhere. What am I missing?

[ChumpDumper]

If you mean the linked materaial, I didn't see it in the four day context. I am not aware of any material placing Osama and Saddam (or Iraq) in talks about attacking the USA. Links yes, specific intel of such talks of direct attacks, no.

How many links can a chain have?

I didn't see it in Yoni's posts anywhere. What am I missing?

It's right up there in his posts.

[ChumpDumper]

And really, we had Saddam in custody for months. With our reliable waterboarding and stress position techniques, shouldn't we have already gotten any information about the Saddam-al Qaeda link from Saddam himself?

[Wild Cobra]

It's right up there in his posts.

I found the term "four years" but not "four day" and that was not quite what you said.

Show me. I'm ignorant, OK?

[ChumpDumper]

If you can't do simple math, that's your problem.