return of parker at san antonio

[mathbzh]

No, he'd be playing basketball SOMEWHERE. Pro basketball players don't just sit in the offseason, they play basketball.

Or he will be partying with Eva's friends and come back fat, alcoholic and drug addict

[mathbzh]

Maybe France should just stop wasting money on NBA talent. Just invest on people like Diot or Moerman who should become great FIBA players but don't have a NBA body.

[TheAuthority]

I'm sick of Tony Parker. We should have packaged him and some of these players like Barry in a deal for Garnett. Essentially that deal was Garnett for Jefferson and 2 #1's. OK, and Theo Ratliff's expiring deal. Big deal. Gomes is decent, he's nothing special, he's a throw in. Gerald Green has done nothing, just like Telfair. Parker is twice the player Jefferson is. It's proven; it's easy to put up numbers on a bad team. I'm sure Jefferson will put up similar good numbers on a bad team in Minnesota -- on a good team, he's like 14 and 9.

Earlier in the year the Spurs could have also offered Scola, well, before they gave him away for nothing. I'm just pissed they didn't at least make a run at him. I don't care about Parker's age. The only benefit to me, is that his trade value is higher because he's young. When Duncan retires, this team's going to . Everyone knows it. Even Spurs fans. Let's bring Garnett on board and finish this dynasty up. Oh wait, wouldn't want to go over the luxury tax! Even if that means making a conference contender stronger! Good thinking!

[Slomo]

It has nothing to do with a doctor being able to examine the patient and render an opinion. That's up to the patient.

But a US doctor wouldn't have the authority to get things done like order an X-Ray or MRI or blood tests. S/he'd have to have a French (in this case) physician do it. Also the US doc couldn't prescribe medications (maybe they could if they brought them along with them, would depend on the regulations) or do any procedures without a license. What would happen is the French doc would ask the US doc for an expert opinion (i.e., a consultation) and work in collaboration with them, but the "official" doc would be the person with the license (i.e.,the French one).

One other administrative thing: I doubt the US doc could bill for his services in a country where he doesn't have a license in the standard fashion. So his fees would have to be covered by a contract or some sort of pre-arrangement. Or he could work for free.

For instances like when they fly in some renowned specialist to perform the separation of conjoined twins, what must happen is the State Department works out the licensing issues with the country in question so that the surgeon is legally covered to perform the operation.

Gotcha

[Slomo]

How did LeBron, KG, Dwight Howard, Kobe make it without an Insep? Don't some of these European teams have junior club?. Isn't that the way futbol works? Why is the state developing basketball players to begin with? How much does it cost to run an Insep when you subtract out the built in educational costs? I'm willing to bet this cost is greatly exagerrated and no more than one of the private acadmeys some of these high school players attend for free in the US. I'm just not buying the "but look how much was invested in them" line.

I seriously doubt that I need to explain to you how american athletes make it to the NBA. I'll just say the US system is unique and impossible to implement outside of it.

Most of the best European teams in fact have junior teams and those are mostly a cost for the respective organization - a cost they accept in hope that one of their members will pan out and make it all worthwhile.

Some countries have dedicated athletic schools/programs for young talented athletes to develop (ie INSEP in France). The reason for this is that schools in Europe are mostly academic ins utions with almost no budget for sports beyond basic recreation. People who are interested in compe ive sports join a club and fight there ways through the various age groups and amateur level compe ions.


As for the exact amount it is irrelevant since I was replying to the posters saying "we paid for him so he's ours". That statement is false since his/her club/association/country made him good enough for a pro team to even sign him/her. I'm going to repeat myself and say it is a lot easier to buy an existing/established talent than to find and develop it - specially for a pro club that will turn that purchase into profit (well if the club is not the Knicks).

And finally even if the amount in dollars and cents might not be as impressive as a NBA 6 years contract the financial burden placed on the national organization while developing him/her is much greater than the burden of the contracts on the pro team.

So all in all take the time to investigate how these things work outside of the US and you'll find out it is many things (good and bad) but definitely not exaggerated.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Read Slomo and JPB.

They got it.

I get it too.

When will the Europeans on the board quit with the ugly American crap? I don't necessarily agree with some of the posters in this thread, but at the same time the 'arrogant American' crap while preaching the national pride of European players like us Americans don't give a flip about our country as long as our NBA team winning is pure BS too.

Maybe some of the posters on here will lighten up about being selfish about the Spurs if the Euro posters on here will lighten up with the inferiority complex...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The same thing again:

Bowen can play for USA
But not the internationals for they countries

I don't see Bruce playing for Team USA this summer, unless I missed something.

And if he had gotten hurt last year, the Spurs would have brought him back to SA as well. Quit with the drama.

[stéphane]

Maybe some of the posters on here will lighten up about being selfish about the Spurs if the Euro posters on here will lighten up with the inferiority complex...

You're making an inferiority complex when you have the same status and consider the other being better no? So tell me how a country like france is equal to US basketball wise? As it's been said in this thread BB is a minor sport here. The number of american playing bb and the number of french have nothing in common...

[mathbzh]

I get it too.

When will the Europeans on the board quit with the ugly American crap? I don't necessarily agree with some of the posters in this thread, but at the same time the 'arrogant American' crap while preaching the national pride of European players like us Americans don't give a flip about our country as long as our NBA team winning is pure BS too.

Maybe some of the posters on here will lighten up about being selfish about the Spurs if the Euro posters on here will lighten up with the inferiority complex...

+1

I disagree with you on the situation... but as I also said it as nothing to do with USA/Europe relationship.

Proof:
The problems are the same in Soccer or Rugby between european clubs
and european NT

[Alain]

Sport is a soft version of war (see ancient greeks Olympics, cold war, sports vocabulary, ...).
During a battle, people are injured or die, regardless of their respective value to society. Money is irrelevant here.
Seeing the same posters, who used to bash France for not supporting the US forces in Iraq, saying TP should stop representing his nation is amazing hypocrisy.

[stéphane]

Sport is a soft version of war (see ancient greeks Olympics, cold war, sports vocabulary, ...).
During a battle, people are injured or die, regardless of their respective value to society. Money is irrelevant here.
Seeing the same posters, who used to bash France for not supporting the US forces in Iraq, saying TP should stop representing his nation is amazing hypocrisy.

talking about war while you're at it name those i'm sure they'll be delighted

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

You're making an inferiority complex when you have the same status and consider the other being better no? So tell me how a country like france is equal to US basketball wise? As it's been said in this thread BB is a minor sport here. The number of american playing bb and the number of french have nothing in common...

An inferiority complex is a feeling that one is inferior to others in some way.

This thread is littered with posts by French people (I am not stereotyping, they freely admit this) whining about Spurs fans being selfish, the Spurs franchise looking down on French doctors, that us Americans don't understand national pride like the Euros do, etc.

Would jealousy be a better word for you? Either way, get the over it already. The Spurs are paying Parker 70 million. They are paying the bills for any medical problems he has or treatments he need, not team France.

If they want him in SA for treatment, it's their prerogative and all the whiny people in this thread (regardless of nationality) need to recognize that, understand it, and shut up about it.

Good lord. The moment anyone criticizes Parker, the Church of Parker goes on the attack. Now we have them doing the same because the Spurs are flying him back for treatment for an injury?

Particularly after ShoogarBear shed light on the medical situation and the inability of the Spurs to send doctors over there to treat him?

Like I said, quit with the ugly American BS, and maybe you and your fellow Frenchmen will get shown some respect on here. Until then, don't lecture us on national pride, etc. There's plenty of national pride here buddy, and we'd understand it if someone like Tim or Bowen or whoever were playing for Team USA, got hurt, and went home to SA for treatment.

European football clubs do the same thing with their stars when they get hurt in international play, I don't get the drama here, other than a couple of French folks taking offense to the Spurs and their opinion of French medical treatment, and translating that into some sort of national slight.

[stéphane]

An inferiority complex is a feeling that one is inferior to others in some way.

This thread is littered with posts by French people (I am not stereotyping, they freely admit this) whining about Spurs fans being selfish, the Spurs franchise looking down on French doctors, that us Americans don't understand national pride like the Euros do, etc.

Would jealousy be a better word for you? Either way, get the over it already. The Spurs are paying Parker 70 million. They are paying the bills for any medical problems he has or treatments he need, not team France.

If they want him in SA for treatment, it's their prerogative and all the whiny people in this thread (regardless of nationality) need to recognize that, understand it, and shut up about it.

Good lord. The moment anyone criticizes Parker, the Church of Parker goes on the attack. Now we have them doing the same because the Spurs are flying him back for treatment for an injury?

Particularly after ShoogarBear shed light on the medical situation and the inability of the Spurs to send doctors over there to treat him?

Like I said, quit with the ugly American BS, and maybe you and your fellow Frenchmen will get shown some respect on here. Until then, don't lecture us on national pride, etc. There's plenty of national pride here buddy, and we'd understand it if someone like Tim or Bowen or whoever were playing for Team USA, got hurt, and went home to SA for treatment.

European football clubs do the same thing with their stars when they get hurt in international play, I don't get the drama here, other than a couple of French folks taking offense to the Spurs and their opinion of French medical treatment, and translating that into some sort of national slight.

I'm wondering AHF if this post is directed at me. I tend to think so because of the "you and your fellow Frenchmen"... If so what did I say in this thread about it? nothing... I'm not mad at the spurs calling him back to check if he's allright. But you'll sure hear more if they don't want him to play anymore with the french team. And please quit with the stereotyping you mentioned dude .

[Alain]

The Spurs are paying Parker 70 million.

They could pay him a few tacos, it wouldn't change anything.
Money is irrelevant in this case.

[JPB]

How did LeBron, KG, Dwight Howard, Kobe make it without an Insep? Don't some of these European teams have junior club?. Isn't that the way futbol works? Why is the state developing basketball players to begin with? How much does it cost to run an Insep when you subtract out the built in educational costs? I'm willing to bet this cost is greatly exagerrated and no more than one of the private acadmeys some of these high school players attend for free in the US. I'm just not buying the "but look how much was invested in them" line.

The federal center (centre fédéral) is a part of the INSEP.
each year, it represents :

-48 young people (4 teams, girls and boys) to carry over (food, bed, education...)
-15 technicians (coaches, assistant, physical trainers...)
-administration people (don't know how many exactly)

Teams play in pro-am championships vs older guys to get a though opposition and in international youth compe ions. That represents a important logistic cost.

As for an example, here are the 1998-1999 graduates, TP's second and last year in the CFBB.

Yann DEVEHAT
Mamoutou DIARRA
Boris DIAW
Julien DOREAU
Thomas DUBIEZ
Matthieu FORGET
Guy GUEDEGBE
Nicolas KACZMAROW
Vincent MARGUERITTE
Robert MICHALSKI
Olivier MOGNON
Noel NIJEAN
Tony PARKER
Gorjan RADONJIC
Ronny TURIAF

Out of these 12, and you can see it was an exeptional year, less than half of them really made a life of basketball. 3 made the NBA, and one (Diarra) became an international player. But again, it's not all years like that.

Maybe, these informations can give yo an idea of what the center investment represents.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

They could pay him a few tacos, it wouldn't change anything.
Money is irrelevant in this case.

According to some of the French posters in this thread, that's all we care about here in America

[Slomo]

When will the Europeans on the board quit with the ugly American crap?

Please post link to my post referring to the above.

[picnroll]

Some countries have dedicated athletic schools/programs for young talented athletes to develop (ie INSEP in France). The reason for this is that schools in Europe are mostly academic ins utions with almost no budget for sports beyond basic recreation. People who are interested in compe ive sports join a club and fight there ways through the various age groups and amateur level compe ions.

Seems like a lot what what INSEP is is a place where talented foreign players, who qualify for French citizenship because they're from former French colonies, are placed for 3 or 4 years after they're identified by scouts pouring over Africa.

[Slomo]

Seems like a lot what what INSEP is is a place where talented foreign players, who qualify for French citizenship because they're from former French colonies, are placed for 3 or 4 years after they're identified by scouts pouring over Africa.

Weak spin attempt!

My point is not about race or imperialism, it's about some posters in this thread claiming sole ownership over TP on behalf of the Spurs because they paid him, making him a de facto assets worth protecting from France (more specifically the french NT).

If payment or investment is the only criteria than the french claim to TP is just as valid as the Spurs'

That's all.

Stay on topic.

[picnroll]

Weak spin attempt!

My point is not about race or imperialism, it's about some posters in this thread claiming sole ownership over TP on behalf of the Spurs because they paid him, making him a de facto assets worth protecting from France (more specifically the french NT).

If payment or investment is the only criteria than the french claim to TP is just as valid as the Spurs'

That's all.

Stay on topic.

But some are justifying in part the "moral justification" of participation by players on their national teams because of the tremendous investment the country has made in developing its players. The investment is relly a pitance when you subtract out the cost of paying scouts to scour Africa, and the idea that it is a national team is largely a joke, it is largely the French Foreign Legion. This doesn't appy to Parker but it does to many.

[JP le Requin]

Refrain

To arms, oh citizens!
Form up in serried ranks!
March on, march on!
And drench our fields
With their tainted blood!


Verses

I
Arise you children of our Motherland !
Oh now is here our glorious day !
Over us the bloodstained banner,
Of tyranny holds sway ! (repeat)
Oh do you hear there in our fields
The roar of those fierce fighting men?
Who came right here into our midst
To slaughter sons, wifes and kin.
To arms ! and so on.


II

What do they want this horde of slaves,
Of traitors and conspiratorial kings ?
For whom these vile chains,
These long-prepared irons? (repeat)
Frenchmen, for us, ah! What outrage !
What methods must be taken ;
It is we they dare plan
To return to the old slavery !
To arms ! and so on.


III

What! These foreign cohorts
They would make laws in our courts !
What! These mercenary phalanxes
Would cut down our warrior sons ! (repeat)
Good Lord! By chained hands !
Our brow would yield under the yoke !
The vile despots would have themselves be
The masters of destiny !
To arms ! and so on.


IV

Tremble, tyrants and traitors,
The shame of all good men !
Tremble! Your parricidal schemes
Will receive their just reward. (repeat)
Against you we are all soldiers.
If they fall, our young heros,
France will bear new ones
Ready to join the fight against you.
To arms ! and so on.


V

Frenchmen, as magnanimous warriors
Bear or hold back your wounds !
Spare these sad victims,
That they regret taking up arms against us ! (repeat)
But not these bloody despots !
These accomplices of Bouillé !
All these tigers who pitilessly
Ripped out their mothers' wombs !
To arms ! and so on.


VI

Supreme devotion to our Motherland,
Guides and sustains avenging hands.
Liberty, oh dearest Liberty,
Come fight with your shieldings bands. (repeat)
Beneath our banner come, oh Victory,
Run at your soul-stirring cry.
Oh come, come see your foes now die,
Witness your pride and our glory.
To arms ! and so on.


1st children verse

Into the fight we to shall enter,
When our fathers are dead and gone ;
We shall find their bones laid down to rest
With the fame of their glories won ; (repeat)
Oh, to survive them care we not
Glad are we to share their grave
Great honor is to be our lot
To follow or to venge our brave.
To arms ! and so on.


i am agree TP is going to san antonio ti chek everything about him!!
let him alone!!! and spurs will not find any problems s he will come back to france and will go to spain win our first european championship, then THE BACK TO BACK!!!!

GO SPURS GO !!!!!
et ALLEZ LES BLEUX!!!!! ou ALLEZ LA FRANCE!!!!

[mathbzh]

the idea that it is a national team is largely a joke, it is largely the French Foreign Legion.

Feel free to give me the name of players you are talking about?

Here is the french NT
Pape BADIANE born in Boulogne Billancourt (France)
Boris Diaw born in Cormeilles en Parisis (France)
Yakhouba DIAWARA born in Paris (France)
Cédric FERCHAUD born in Cholet (France)
Joseph GOMIS born in Evreux (France)
Aymeric JEANNEAU born in La Roche sur Yon (France)
Michel MORANDAIS born in Guadeloupe (France - French west indies)
Florent PIETRUS born in Guadeloupe (France - French west indies)
Yohann SANGARE born in Poissy (France)
Ronny TURIAF born in Martinique (France - French west indies)
Frédéric WEIS born in Thjionville (France)

There are only 3 player not born in France:

Sacha Giffa born in Moscou (Russia) grew up in France
Tony PARKER born in Bruges (belgium) grew up in France
Tariq KIRKSAY born in New York

Among these 3 players only Tariq Kirskay would qualify as "Foreign Legion"... and he is not exactly from Africa.

I assume you conclude we have a "French Foreign Legion" because there are a lot of black players in the French team. I will tell you a secret you can be black AND french. Some French players have Africans roots but they are french citizen and a true part of the "national team".

[stéphane]

Feel free to give me the name of players you are talking about?

Here is the french NT
Pape BADIANE born in Boulogne Billancourt (France)
Boris Diaw born in Cormeilles en Parisis (France)
Yakhouba DIAWARA born in Paris (France)
Cédric FERCHAUD born in Cholet (France)
Joseph GOMIS born in Evreux (France)
Aymeric JEANNEAU born in La Roche sur Yon (France)
Michel MORANDAIS born in Guadeloupe (France - French west indies)
Florent PIETRUS born in Guadeloupe (France - French west indies)
Yohann SANGARE born in Poissy (France)
Ronny TURIAF born in Martinique (France - French west indies)
Frédéric WEIS born in Thjionville (France)

There are only 3 player not born in France:

Sacha Giffa born in Moscou (Russia) grew up in France
Tony PARKER born in Bruges (belgium) grew up in France
Tariq KIRKSAY born in New York

Among these 3 players only Tariq Kirskay would qualify as "Foreign Legion"... and he is not exactly from Africa.

I assume you conclude we have a "French Foreign Legion" because there are a lot of black players in the French team. I will tell you a secret you can be black AND french. Some French players have Africans roots but they are french citizen and a true part of the "national team".

yep mais tu te doutes que deja qu'en france yen a certain a qui ca plait pas, alors au texas qui est historiquement ******* et bien c'est encore pire...
sorry for the french sentence.
And btw the foreign legion is among our top army's group...
so yeah tell all the american that are born outside of the US that they are just foreigners even if they are US citizens
BS

[JPB]

Seems like a lot what what INSEP is is a place where talented foreign players, who qualify for French citizenship because they're from former French colonies, are placed for 3 or 4 years after they're identified by scouts pouring over Africa.

What a poor, poor, really poor, ignorant post.

I shouldn't try to educate you, but :

Guadeloupe, Martinique, French guyana are french territories (départements in french) with the same laws, rights, duties...

Through his history, France has also the largest black community (we don't like this word in France) outside of America. Many people who were born and grew up here have parents or grand parents who came from Sénégal, Ivory Cost, cameroon, Malia...
There are also people wh ocame from Italy, Spain, Portugal, Poland...for economic reasons troughout the century, just like in America. Their children are french like anybody else.

I don't think you would talk about foreign legion for Kobe, Lebron, D-Wade... whom ancesters "came" from Africa ?

End of today's class.
There might be an exam soon.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Please post link to my post referring to the above.

Present company excluded. Come on Slomo, you know it wasn't directed at you, it's directed at all the clowns in this thread whining that us Americans don't understand national pride, that it's an insult to France that we won't let their docs treat Tony, etc.