Marbury Defends Vick

[K-State Spur]

Animals are killed cruelly all the time for a variety of reasons, yet it's this instance that somehow out of nowhere creates a firestorm of outrage.

While I believe that a lot of the animal testing could be more regulated - the key word in your post was REASONS.

People tend to draw a distinction between killing a cow that was bred to feed humans vs. sticking shards of glass in the face of man's best friend just for sick entertainment.

[K-State Spur]

The bottonline is that we are essentially saying that dogs have no right to live but Vick cannot kill them in the manner tha he does.

Who is saying that? What they're saying is BECAUSE of Vick (and his buddies), these dogs have been trained for fighting. Once a dog has been trained for fighting - it is inherently dangerous to release them back into society. Very few dog owners are mentally and physically capable of rehabilitating a fighting dog.

And, if you need a reason for cruelty to dogs to be important to humans:

It's a sign of psychopathy - Many people who are cruel to pets prove to do cruel things to humans at a later time.

[dimsah]

I find this whole conversation very interesting reading. Getting to see several sides to the argument.

I can't say I agree with the hunting analogy however, but there isn't much I can say that hasn't already been said. I'm not a hunter, but I do consider hunting for food part of the natural order, and don't see how a human killing a deer for food is any different than a bobcat or coyote killing their prey for food.

I'll have no problem with any verdict that is handed down to Vick whether it's jail time or fines/suspensions, etc. I think he definitely has some issues and should be given mandatory therapy sessions to find out why he would take such pleasure in torturing these animals.

[Holt's Cat]

Because all deer, ducks, etc...who are hunted enjoy such quick and painless deaths. Americans are ing stupid about the things they worry about.

[leemajors]

Did he really?

Got a link or what he said?

they talked about it on PTI, but i don't have a link.

[leemajors]

nm found it:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/08232007..._percent_w.htm

[HighLowLobForBig-50]

after reading this thread, i can conclude that-
a.people love dogs
b.breaking the law is punishable
c.mike vick is a fu$%#! idiot

[The Truth #6]

While I believe that a lot of the animal testing could be more regulated - the key word in your post was REASONS.

People tend to draw a distinction between killing a cow that was bred to feed humans vs. sticking shards of glass in the face of man's best friend just for sick entertainment.

The distinction you allude to has nothing to do with animal testing (which is the passage you quoted) so I don't see what argument you are making. Animal testing has nothing to do with feeding humans. It has more to do with sick entertainment, and that's my point - people are caught up with people's reactions to animal cruelty, not the actual animal cruelty itself.

[Demo Dick Marcinko]

Boy you did some research! Not research of planetary alignments or global warming, but something important, like Michael Vick's life (Sounds a bit crazy to me) HEAR ME LOUD AND CLEAR. TO ALL THAT CONDEMN VICK FOR WHAT HE DID TO THOSE "POOR" DOGS, THERE'S NOT YOU CAN POST ON THIS FORUM THAT WOULD ME ME GIVE TWO S ABOUT SOME ING MANGY ASS DOGS BEING ABUSED! btw, If I'm having a bad day, I flip people off on the freeway all the time during heavty traffic. I guess I should be hospitalized huh Also, Kobe didn't rape that tramp w/ the different semen samples in her panties! I'm no laker fan, but damn! If she was seeking justice, she would have let the case go to trial rather than take her "undisclosed" sum of money and haul ass to sunny Florida.

Research, that's rich. Not sure if you noticed, but Vick is on just about every news and sports channel. Can't switch a channel or pull up a web site without something about Vick being on ad nauseam. I'm a little fuzzy on planetary alignments, but we can sure discuss global warming, or healthcare reform, or that little conflict we got going on in the middle east. I'm not sure where you got the impression that anyone is trying to shape and mold some of these fine minds on this forum, just expressing an opinion...just like you. We are who we are and only the feeble minded can have their core beliefs and values shaped by a free public sports forum.

And I don't know that you need to be ins utionalized because you flip people off all the time, but it sounds like you have anger issues and you may want to talk to someone. Let me encourage you to exercise a little caution because one day you may run into someone who's having a very bad day. Know what I mean. Look at it this way, you're more valuable to your family alive then at the county morgue. You end up going from Macho Man to Dead Guy real fast.

I'm not sure how Kobe came up, so unless he just got traded to the Spurs, you may have to help me out.

[K-State Spur]

The distinction you allude to has nothing to do with animal testing (which is the passage you quoted) so I don't see what argument you are making. Animal testing has nothing to do with feeding humans. It has more to do with sick entertainment, and that's my point - people are caught up with people's reactions to animal cruelty, not the actual animal cruelty itself.

Well, how far they should go with animal testing is a whole other topic. But obviously its purpose is to make sure that a seemingly safe product is not released on the market to humans only to find out later that it has detrimental effects. While there is certainly some level of cruelty in play with select products, there is also a benefit to society angle as well.

[41times]

Boy you did some research! Not research of planetary alignments or global warming, but something important, like Michael Vick's life (Sounds a bit crazy to me) HEAR ME LOUD AND CLEAR. TO ALL THAT CONDEMN VICK FOR WHAT HE DID TO THOSE "POOR" DOGS, THERE'S NOT YOU CAN POST ON THIS FORUM THAT WOULD ME ME GIVE TWO S ABOUT SOME ING MANGY ASS DOGS BEING ABUSED! btw, If I'm having a bad day, I flip people off on the freeway all the time during heavty traffic. I guess I should be hospitalized huh Also, Kobe didn't rape that tramp w/ the different semen samples in her panties! I'm no laker fan, but damn! If she was seeking justice, she would have let the case go to trial rather than take her "undisclosed" sum of money and haul ass to sunny Florida.

Here is another perfect example of the decaying of our society. It is this type of at ude that is slowly kreeping it's way into the fabric of our culture. Sadly some day this type of person will be the rule vs. the exception

If this type of cancer continues to spread it won't be long before Bull Fighting, Fighting and Dog fighting will be passe' and some will turn to human fighting to the death like in the Roman Days. we are half way there with UFC fighting now.God help us all.

[Spurminator]

Here is another perfect example of the decaying of our society. It is this type of at ude that is slowly kreeping it's way into the fabric of our culture. Sadly some day this type of person will be the rule vs. the exception

If this type of cancer continues to spread it won't be long before Bull Fighting, Fighting and Dog fighting will be passe' and some will turn to human fighting to the death like in the Roman Days. we are half way there with UFC fighting now.God help us all.

Decaying? That opinion is growing less popular, not more.

Do you really think this would have gotten as much press in 1960? (Well, without considering the racial element, that is. Speaking of "decay"...)

[DR WU]

Report: Marbury backs off Vick comments
Associated Press, Updated 7 hours ago, 8/24/07




NEW YORK (AP) - New York Knicks guard Stephon Marbury backed off his defense of Michael Vick, according to newspaper reports Friday.

"What Michael Vick did was wrong, and he has admitted his guilt," Marbury said in a statement released by the Knicks to New York newspapers. "He should be punished. However, he should be given a second chance, as others have received for more serious crimes."
Marbury had made controversial comments Monday about the federal dogfighting conspiracy charges against Vick while promoting his basketball shoe in Albany.

"I think it's tough," Marbury said, according to Albany TV station Capital News 9. "I think, you know, we don't say anything about people who shoot deer or shoot other animals. You know, from what I hear, dogfighting is a sport. It's just behind closed doors."

Marbury expanded on those comments in the statement.

"There is no list for which animals should be killed and which shouldn't. I love animals and none of them should be harmed However, we don't react the same when other animals are being killed for sport or the sake of human pleasure."

[Demo Dick Marcinko]

That they are going to put Vick in jail for killing dogs and that the government that is going to do this to him is going to kill the rest of his dogs.

You don't get it, the dogs have been specifically bred, conditioned and trained to fight. That's all they know. They can not be safely rehabilitated. The most humane, painless way to put them down is to euthanize the dogs. Common sense.

I want to see people who think like this write to their congressman, tell them how hypocritical the governments actions are and tell them that you want one of Vick's pits as a family pet because it's hypocritical to euthanize them and then leave your kids home alone with them. I wonder if they'll still feel so passionate against putting them down.

[sandman]

"There is no list for which animals should be killed and which shouldn't. I love animals and none of them should be harmed However, we don't react the same when other animals are being killed for sport or the sake of human pleasure."

Marbury would probably be outraged at how the City of Austin is advocating the killing of deer simply for sport and human pleasure...

"Unfortunately, white-tailed deer have become extremely over-populated in many areas including Central Texas. "

"The spread of farming, ranching and urban areas took its toll on wolves, coyotes, mountain lions, bobcats and bears, all natural predators of deer."

"When their predators are absent, this high birth rate produces over-population."

'Even in favorable habitats, deer populations will find an upper limit ("carrying capacity") at which starvation and disease set in... A more widespread effect is over-browse... will destroy existing endangered species habitat... Homeowners annually spend thousands of dollars replacing landscapes destroyed by hungry deer... best known danger to humans is Lyme disease."

"Unfortunately, the deer harvest limit and short hunting season regulated by Texas Parks and Wildlife does not remove enough deer from the existing population to compensate for their high rate of reproduction. "

"Lethal, humane culling by professionals is the most cost effective solution available at this time. Land managers throughout the nation are managing deer populations to reduce their numbers to sustainable levels. Land managers must now adopt lethal means to replace now-absent predators. Without culling, deer populations cannot return to normal healthy levels. State law requires that the meat produced by culling be used beneficially. It is usually donated to food banks and similar charities. "

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/preserves/whatis.htm

Even the Lib'rals in Austin who want to protect bats, lizards and moths understand that hunting deer serves an ecological, environmental and safety purpose.

[Sec24Row7]

Here is another perfect example of the decaying of our society. It is this type of at ude that is slowly kreeping it's way into the fabric of our culture. Sadly some day this type of person will be the rule vs. the exception

If this type of cancer continues to spread it won't be long before Bull Fighting, Fighting and Dog fighting will be passe' and some will turn to human fighting to the death like in the Roman Days. we are half way there with UFC fighting now.God help us all.

As people get more and more detatched from what they eat buying processed food from a grocery store they fool themselves into thinking that they are above the food chain. They are detatched from reality.

That is the cancer that is happening in our society.

I like Bullfights. I've been to a legal fight. Sue me.

They are OLD TRADITIONS. These aren't a moral decay. They have been here for thousands of years.

I don't like dogfights because well... I like dogs... but I hate Pitbulls... go figure.

If I saw a pitbull on my ranch I would shoot it no questions asked.

Sue me. Get your meat wrapped in plastic and swear to yourself that something hasn't died for your benefit or entertainment and keep living your lie of a life.

I'm perfectly happy in my skin.

[ratm1221]

I have not read one intelligent post defending Vick. He screwed up and he should pay. He has issues.

For those of you that think animal testing goes unchallenged you might need to come out of the closet you have been living in. It just doesn't get as much media attention because it is old news. It has been a long, drawn out battle. Animal testing is pointless. Do we really need any more shampoos in the world?

All animal cruelty that happens in the country is a big issue to a lot of people. But Michael Vick is a celebrity, so of course he is going to get the blunt of it. I see stories on the news all the time about people getting jail time for putting their dog in the washing machine or throwing someones dog into traffic. , there was a guy just yesterday on the news that is spending 2 years in jail for burning a dog. So don't try and say everyone gets away with it except for Michael Vick. That's just plain ignorant.

Again, I don't hunt, but I can't believe that anyone could say that hunting is just as big of an issue as dog fighting.

As people get more and more detatched from what they eat buying processed food from a grocery store they fool themselves into thinking that they are above the food chain. They are detatched from reality.

People eat meat. It's a fact. Dogfighters don't eat their dogs after they get mutilated or drown them in a bathtub. I wasn't aware of the cow fighting that went on before they package it up and send it to the grocery store.

[Sec24Row7]

People eat meat. It's a fact. Dogfighters don't eat their dogs after they get mutilated or drown them in a bathtub. I wasn't aware of the cow fighting that went on before they package it up and send it to the grocery store.

I never defended Vick or compared what he was doing to Slaughterhouse processing. I was responding to a specific poster whom I quoted above that long statement. Unless you are that idiot, I wasn't talking to you.

[41times]

I guess because Vick had help killing the dogs and did not do it all by himself would make it much better for him?
To me that just means that there are 4 sick bas s instead of just one.

Here is an idea for Vick's 12-18 month prison sentence. Every day the wardon brings big Bubba over from a neighboring cell and he holds Mike's head under the toilet water for 2 minutes and then lets him up. If he makes it 2 minutes then Big Bubba goes back to his cell until tomorrow. If Mike doesn't make it then.....well dead men tell no tales.

The Atlanta Falcons quarterback is scheduled to formally enter his plea Monday in U.S. District Court. "Most of the Bad Newz Kennels operation and gambling monies were provided by Vick," a summary of facts in the case said, echoing language in plea agreements by three co-defendants who previously pleaded guilty.
The statement said that when the kennel's dogs won, the gambling proceeds were generally shared by Vick's three co-defendants -- Tony Taylor, Purnell Peace and Quanis Phillips.
"Vick did not gamble by placing side bets on any of the fights. Vick did not receive any of the proceeds of the purses that were won by Bad Newz Kennels," the summary said.
According to the statement, Vick also was involved in killing six to eight dogs that did not perform well in test sessions last April. The dogs were executed by drowning or hanging.
"Vick agrees and stipulates that these dogs all died as a result of the collective efforts" of Vick and two of the co-defendants, Phillips and Peace, the statement says.
In the plea agreement, the government committed to recommending a sentence on the low end of the federal sentencing guideline range of a year to 18 months. However, the conspiracy charge is punishable by up to five years in prison, and the judge is not bound by any recommendation or by the sentencing guidelines.
U.S. District Judge Henry E. Hudson, who will accept Vick's plea, has a reputation for imposing stiff sentences, according to lawyers who have appeared in his court. Vick will not be sentenced for several months.

[LuvBones]

[ratm1221]

I never defended Vick or compared what he was doing to Slaughterhouse processing. I was responding to a specific poster whom I quoted above that long statement. Unless you are that idiot, I wasn't talking to you.

Sorry to break this to you but this is a public forum. When you address something you are addressing everyone. If you wanted it to be a private message you should have messaged him and not posted it a public board. I didn't agree with your post and I still don't. So, like you said, sue me.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Well, how far they should go with animal testing is a whole other topic. But obviously its purpose is to make sure that a seemingly safe product is not released on the market to humans only to find out later that it has detrimental effects. While there is certainly some level of cruelty in play with select products, there is also a benefit to society angle as well.

The products in question here are pure vanity. They inject rats and spray rabbits in the eyes aand other orifices so your wife can smell nice.

Choose your vice: vanity or wrath.

Dog fighting makes people money. there is an economic benefit to it. Its called entertainment.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Marbury would probably be outraged at how the City of Austin is advocating the killing of deer simply for sport and human pleasure...

"Unfortunately, white-tailed deer have become extremely over-populated in many areas including Central Texas. "

"The spread of farming, ranching and urban areas took its toll on wolves, coyotes, mountain lions, bobcats and bears, all natural predators of deer."

"When their predators are absent, this high birth rate produces over-population."

'Even in favorable habitats, deer populations will find an upper limit ("carrying capacity") at which starvation and disease set in... A more widespread effect is over-browse... will destroy existing endangered species habitat... Homeowners annually spend thousands of dollars replacing landscapes destroyed by hungry deer... best known danger to humans is Lyme disease."

"Unfortunately, the deer harvest limit and short hunting season regulated by Texas Parks and Wildlife does not remove enough deer from the existing population to compensate for their high rate of reproduction. "

"Lethal, humane culling by professionals is the most cost effective solution available at this time. Land managers throughout the nation are managing deer populations to reduce their numbers to sustainable levels. Land managers must now adopt lethal means to replace now-absent predators. Without culling, deer populations cannot return to normal healthy levels. State law requires that the meat produced by culling be used beneficially. It is usually donated to food banks and similar charities. "

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/preserves/whatis.htm

Even the Lib'rals in Austin who want to protect bats, lizards and moths understand that hunting deer serves an ecological, environmental and safety purpose.

And this proves that we as humans have the right to kill animals whenever we feel like it. And ive yet to see a deer famine or a deer plague.

[Sec24Row7]

And this proves that we as humans have the right to kill animals whenever we feel like it. And ive yet to see a deer famine or a deer plague.

You're a ing idiot.

Of course you haven't.

You've probably driven off pavement once in your life.

[duncan228]

FYI update: NFL suspended Vick.

http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/new...r812r80&src=ap

Nike dropped him also, don't have that link at the moment.