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TimVP's mode of argument
TimVP: You never admit you are wrong
Whottt: I might be wrong
TimVP: You changed your stance!
Lame.
Secondly...I am a Malik Fan...drawing a comparison between Malik and Scola does not mean I endorse Scola. I never compared Scola's rebounding to Malik......I compared his offensive game. And that's not an edorsement...I love Malik but I don't think he's the second coming of Duncan or anything.
IT's just everyone is hyping this guy up like he is Wilt and I'm saying he's probably closer to Malik...without the rebounding.
Personality wise it's no contest....I think Scola's an asshole and Malik isn't.
TimVP's mode of argument
TimVP: You never admit you are wrong
Whottt: I might be wrong
TimVP: You changed your stance!
Lame.
I was called a Scola hater for years. From when he was drafted until he was traded, people said I unnecessarily hated Scola. Now after the trade, but take on him remained the same ... and now I'm some sort of ultimate Scola backer.
The truth is the homer element changed drastically on Scola while my take remained the same. For a long time, I was on the lower end of the Scola-o-meter. Now because a lot of Spurs fans homered out, my same stance is somehow on the high end of the Scola-o-meter.
It doesn't take energy to have the same take over and over.
That doesn't give you free license to jump to the other side of the fence.
Neither did I. But I also didn't say he could be a number one overall pick.
Your take has always been that you'd trust the Spurs FO in whatever the do with Scola. Translation: I'll homer out when the Scola decision is made.
If the Spurs would have decided to bring over Scola, you would have backed the idea. Admit it.
True because half the time I'm stunned that you completely changed your opinion.
And I'm saying that? I'm the one that wanted to keep him in Europe another year.
First of all, it's pretty classic that to find a time you were right about something, you have to find a take from four years ago. Second of all, my take was that if Horry isn't rebounding, he shouldn't be in the game in the fourth quarter. And I still stand by that.
And if you look at the splits, his rebounding is what improved most as the season went on:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/player...r=2005&sType=4
In the middle of the season, he was hurting the Spurs because he wasn't rebounding. That's a fact. If he didn't start rebounding, I didn't want him on the court any longer. But as you can see, he started rebounding in the last two months of the season and then into the playoffs.
Can you find a post from after he started rebounding in which timvp said he didn't want Horry playing in fourth quarters?
What you consider ownage is simply you not watching games and pretending everything was right with Horry. But it wasn't. That non-rebounding version of Horry was horrible. And that version of Horry shouldn't have been playing in fourth quarters. But like I said, if he starts rebounding, I'll happily have him play in the fourth.
He started rebounding and his fourth quarter production when through the roof.
Apology Accepted
Fixed.
A post from last week? What happened to your posts from around the time of the trade where you went from saying the Spurs shouldn't trade for just a second round pick to being able to understand it?
Which part of that post did I indicate that the Spurs should just give Scola away?
LMAO that's freaking classic...
You take a thread asking a hypothetical question about Scola's draft are worthiness as some kind of Scola homering on my part...
Scola was being touted as a lottery pick in 2005, I said...could he go #1 in that 2005? I think he could.
At no point did I say I thought he was worth it or that I would take him #1. Just based on the hype he had originally VS what he had at that time...and who was availavble in that draft...would a team considering taking him #1?
As Bruno pointed out...it's not a huge jump to think a guy who could have been a lottery pick in 2002 was #1 pick worthy in that draft after Olympic Gold and Euorleague MVP's.
That doesn't mean I like him...that doesn't mean I would have wanted the Spurs to take him #1...it wasn't even part of the hypothetical question.
I've said he's over-rated all along, probably not as over-rated as I thought, but over-rated nontheless. I've never changed on that. And I've also never thought he was going to transfer well to the NBA.
I think he'd definitely transfer better playing with his Argie teamates...but that doesn't mean I think he's a great player. I don't and I never have.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showpost...2&postcount=15
I've never said that it was a good trade and I've never supported it.
Re-read what I've said :
"timvp hating the trade has more to do with Butler than Scola."
I've never said that you was for giving Scola away.
Question : what deal hate you more ? Scola + Beno for nothing or Butler + first round pick for nothing ?
Meanwhile:
There is absolutely no other way to interpret that statement.
Quoted once more for emphasis:
?
Except if you realize that I put the qualification that he is done if he doesn't rebound. Which was true. However, he started rebounding, which allowed him to play in fourth quarters, which let him become even more of a legend. You just blindly supported him. I pointed out what he needed to do better ... which turned out to be the turning point in his season.
And let's pretend for a second that I indeed gave up on Horry. Name me a Spurs front office member, coach, owner or fan who hasn't given up on Horry at some point or another. Just one. I'd love to hear it.
This season, I was Horry's biggest supporter while you were finding ways to erase his salary from the books. Why don't you call out all those people who were bashing Horry all year?
Oh and as for my last bit of rightness...
Finley, choking, in the finals.
I was 100% right about that.
He sat there and pulled an all time choke and no one even acknowledges it.
Fixed your bolding.
Because every other shooter on the team choked as well. Those who watched the Finals saw the Cavs strictly guarding the three point lines.
And@ the last bit of rightness. This coming from a guy who predicted Cavs in 5 and that a team with Finley getting more minutes than Barry wouldn't win the championship.
L
M
A
O
You've said you understand the trade and listed reasons why it made sense. At first you said it didn't make sense. So yeah, "understanding" it more is a way of supporting it.
In that thread, I said giving away Butler would be a mistake. I think it was. But you are acting as if I said giving away Scola wouldn't be a mistake. When the truth is I think giving away Scola is an even bigger mistake.
Re-read what I've said :
"timvp hating the trade has more to do with Butler than Scola."
I've never said that you was for giving Scola away.
Scola + Beno for nothing I'd hate a lot worse ... not even close.
You said he was done.
Oh...and you don't tell Robert ing Horry to rebound...Robert ing Horry will rebound when he's damn good and ready and IF, and when, he deems it necessary to win a le.
Asking Robert Horry for mere statistical production is like asking Van Gough to paint your garage...by saying, "PAINT".
It was that kind of at ude and insensitivity to the genius that is Robert Horry that earned Danny Ainge a towel in the face.
You don't tell Robert Horry what to do...you ask him what he thinks is necessary to win.
Strange...
Either you have your mind on Jackie "the best Spurs free agent signing since they got Bruce Bowen for the minimum back in the summer of 2001" Butler or on Luis "it's becoming more and more obvious that the Spurs can't justify making him the richest second round draft pick of all-time" Scola.
... if he didn't start rebounding.
You still haven't answered my other questions. Who associated with the Spurs hasn't given up on Horry at one time or another? Why don't you call out those who gave up on Horry this year? How did you enjoy the Cavs' championship parade? How are you going to spend your fantasy baseball winnings?
Thanks.
Butler was a good signing. High upside gotten for a low price tag. Problem is, things changed over the course of the year.
-Butler got bigger. Didn't come into camp in good shape and that was the wrong way to start a career as a Spur.
-The league got smaller. True centers like Butler are worth less today than they are the summer after the Heat won the championship.
-Oberto excelled. He cemented his place as center. You know, Oberto, the player you said should be traded last summer
-Spurs drafted Splitter and Mahinmi had to come over this summer. That was two more center prospects to add to the mix. Perhaps if Mahinmi would have played better in Europe and the European teams actually wanted to keep him, there would have been more room for Butler.
Things change. A good signing could go bad even with the best intentions. Do I think Butler should have been given away? No. Do I think giving him away is more of a mistake than giving away Scola? No. Scola could have stayed in Europe another year while not taking up a roster spot or costing any money. That's a pretty significant different between him and Butler.
I'm pretty much with timvp in this argument, but that was excellent.
Now, show me where you said you might be wrong again?
Translation : timvp was wrong about Butler.Butler was a good signing. High upside gotten for a low price tag. Problem is, things changed over the course of the year.
-Butler got bigger. Didn't come into camp in good shape and that was the wrong way to start a career as a Spur.
-The league got smaller. True centers like Butler are worth less today than they are the summer after the Heat won the championship.
-Oberto excelled. He cemented his place as center. You know, Oberto, the player you said should be traded last summer
-Spurs drafted Splitter and Mahinmi had to come over this summer. That was two more center prospects to add to the mix. Perhaps if Mahinmi would have played better in Europe and the European teams actually wanted to keep him, there would have been more room for Butler.
Things change. A good signing could go bad even with the best intentions. Do I think Butler should have been given away? No. Do I think giving him away is more of a mistake than giving away Scola? No.
Do you think that Spurs could have gotten more for Scola next summer ?
Scola will have cost $7M instead of $10M to a team but he would be one year older. I'm not sure that Scola trade value would have been higher next summer or that Spurs would have sign him with Bonner, Oberto, Splitter and Mahinmi.
And by keeping him you add two risks :
Scola having a serious injury while playing in Europe and Scola signing a long term contract in Europe.
First, it bother you to trade Scola while you have said that he wasn't worth his $10M. So, it bother you that another team overpay for Scola.I would like to know where I said trading Butler bothers me more than trading Scola.
Second, you have suggested a Beno+first round pick trade instead of a Scola+Buttler trade.
You say that Spurs could get an early second round pick for Scola and that Spurs shouldn't sign Scola for what he has asked so first round pick > Scola.
I see no other explication that the reason you hate so much the Scola trade is Butler.
Nicely done. I'll respond in a bit.
But remember, if something were to happen to timvp, it's up to you to keep whottt in line.
Thanks.
the Scola haters are just burning up inside, they have had NOTHING logical to say
I just hate repeating an older post of mine, but...
Pot, kettle, black.
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