Even in preseason the Mavs are getting on!

[The Franchise]

A whole five pages for this huh.

[Humble Billy Hayes]

A whole five pages for this huh.

You're really helping things.

[Findog]

Like I said... this whole conversation was about MENTAL toughness... NOT PHYSICAL toughness. Those are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS.

You mean to tell me, that as a Mavericks fan, that you don't believe that Dirk can be a soft choker? You mean to tell me that when people give him that label, that they have no reason to give it to him whatsoever? Come on now... I'm a Mavs fan too, but I understand completely why people say that, and it is true so far. Personally, I think he will soon get over the hump, but for now, its fitting.

I think there's a grain of truth to it, but I also feel like it's blown out of proportion. He has this extreme anti-clutch reputation, but that ignores his playoff successes. It's far more accurate to say he has a checkered playoff resume.

Some guys are just whipping boys for writers and opposing fans. For instance, Steve Nash can't beat the Spurs to save his life, he hasn't made a Finals, he hasn't played all that well in some of the games his Mavs and Suns teams have been eliminated, and yet excuses are made for him constantly, i.e. his young, talented albeit immature teammates are "wasting" his "championship window." And Dirk is a good character guy, so I don't understand the venom thrown his way compared to some other selfish guys without nearly the same amount of scalps on the wall. I wonder if it has to do with Cuban's loudmouth persona and if that fosters resentment towards his team.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

What's Brad Miller so depressed about all the time? He always looks so sad.

have you seen the name of the team on his jersey?

[stretch]

I think there's a grain of truth to it, but I also feel like it's blown out of proportion. He has this extreme anti-clutch reputation, but that ignores his playoff successes. It's far more accurate to say he has a checkered playoff resume.

Some guys are just whipping boys for writers and opposing fans. For instance, Steve Nash can't beat the Spurs to save his life, he hasn't made a Finals, he hasn't played all that well in some of the games his Mavs and Suns teams have been eliminated, and yet excuses are made for him constantly, i.e. his young, talented albeit immature teammates are "wasting" his "championship window." And Dirk is a good character guy, so I don't understand the venom thrown his way compared to some other selfish guys without nearly the same amount of scalps on the wall. I wonder if it has to do with Cuban's loudmouth persona and if that fosters resentment towards his team.

Oh I agree that the criticism of Dirk is way too harsh. He has done plenty in his career, a lot more than plenty of other players who never get criticized, such as Nash like you mentioned. Dirk has won an MVP, led a team to 60 wins 3 times already, gotten to the finals and two conference championship games, made a number of clutch buckets, game winning shots, and memorable performances in the playoffs. Statistically, he is as solid as anyone we have seen. I really don't see why he gets such a minimal amount of praise, despite some of the poor performances that he has had, although just about every great player has had poor performances and poor series' from time to time.

[Findog]

Oh I agree that the criticism of Dirk is way too harsh. He has done plenty in his career, a lot more than plenty of other players who never get criticized, such as Nash like you mentioned. Dirk has won an MVP, led a team to 60 wins 3 times already, gotten to the finals and two conference championship games, made a number of clutch buckets, game winning shots, and memorable performances in the playoffs. Statistically, he is as solid as anyone we have seen. I really don't see why he gets such a minimal amount of praise, despite some of the poor performances that he has had, although just about every great player has had poor performances and poor series' from time to time.

I really think it's Cuban. I laugh everytime his Andy Kaufman routine goes over the heads of Spurs fans. He's playing a heel, folks.

[Fillmoe]

aint no denying i make classic threads..... kori really needs to hand over like 10 crowns... A SPUR!

[Findog]

aint no denying i make classic threads..... kori really needs to hand over like 10 crowns... A SPUR!

All hail the Sacramento Queefs!

[Fillmoe]

All hail the Sacramento Queefs!

[Findog]

That's not your wife, that's your mistress.

[Fillmoe]

8 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1

[Fillmoe]

That's not your wife, that's your mistress.

Sometimes the mistress gives better head.

[Obstructed_View]

I'm not saying that the point is to show who is most manly. But people that take , always lose in the end. Show me one championship winning team in NBA history that would take from anyone, and not do anything about it. There is not a single team that would. Tim Duncan definitely won't let other people with his team. Again, I'm not saying anything about hitting people or anything like that. But just letting them know you aren't going to just take it up the ass from them. And there is proof that it can make the difference between being a great team, and a championship winning team. We have the 90's Bulls to look at, and their rivalry with the Pistons. They took all kinds of , but finally, the year that they all grew a pair, they demolished the Pistons. And the Pistons even knew, and had admitted previously that the Bulls were the better team, but mentally, they were too soft, and would take advantage of that.

I think you keep misunderstanding me, thinking that I'm talking about hitting people or doing crazy stuff to show people not to with you. If you actually read what I had said, I said that it was not smart of Howard to push him like that, even though Miller totally deserved it. But it was nice not to see the Mavericks just take from people like they used to.

When did Tim Duncan run up behind someone and throw a forearm into them again? When has Manu ever retaliated?

Some of you guys are ing brain damaged.

[Obstructed_View]

And I'm saying that he's right in thinking that many NBA players have the mentality and understanding of "punking". Never said that it was right, I just said that it was out there. YOU brought up rap music and such.

Any implication that it correlates in any way with winning would be completely wrong. Look at history.

P.S. What the does being white have to do with anything? You sound like such a ing moron to go bringing like that into it.

Sorry, balla. Did the wigger implication hit too close to home?

[ambchang]

Because we arent talking about being a great player that has tons of blocks, dunks, and rebounds as being tough. Being physically tough and mentally tough are two different things. People would be a lot more willing to with Robinson, than they would Shaq.

Growling after dunks does not make you tough. Duncan is a of a lot more tough-minded than Garnett. Anyone with a brain knows that, despite Garnett's intimidating personality and look. I don't think anyone that knows what they are talking about would say that someone who growls after a dunk means they are tough.

Are you implying Robinson is mentally soft compared to Shaq? Was Shaq not involved in more fights, lost it and sworn on national TV? When has Robinson lost his mind? When has Robinson been physically or mentally intimidated into subpar performance?

And the growling after dunk comment was making fun of people who label people soft, was that not too obvious?

[samikeyp]

I really think it's Cuban. I laugh everytime his Andy Kaufman routine goes over the heads of Spurs fans. He's playing a heel, folks.

You're assuming some of us haven't already figured that out.

[ambchang]

How about "his intentions were good but he went about it completely wrong"? Happy now Spurfan?

So losing it and risking getting suspended over nothing is good intentions. I have learned so much about what is mentally tough in this thread. How have times changed, I thought I travelled back to the stone ages.

[stretch]

When did Tim Duncan run up behind someone and throw a forearm into them again? When has Manu ever retaliated?

Some of you guys are ing brain damaged.

Dude, read ALL of my posts, then make your reply. I never once said that he would react like that. But he would make it known, that you don't with his guys, but in a slightly more respectful manner than shoving or hitting someone. But Duncan isn't afraid to voice his displeasure with someone if they cross the line, or use opponent's trash talking as motivation to pick his game up. Thats what I said about 100 times that Howard SHOULD have done.

I think it is you that is brain damaged. You can't even in read.

[Humble Billy Hayes]

So losing it and risking getting suspended over nothing is good intentions. I have learned so much about what is mentally tough in this thread. How have times changed, I thought I travelled back to the stone ages.

No, sticking up for your teammates and not letting opponents punk you is the good intentions. losing it and risking getting suspended was all wrong. if you're going to do this strawman bull then just leave the discussion to people who aren't going to be s about it.

[samikeyp]

Just because someone says a player is soft, doesn't make it so.

I would argue that there are times that it takes more mental toughness not to retaliate. There are situations when the opponent is trying to take you out of your game by trying to start with you and if you respond with ....he's got you. If you don't, he doesnt.

Like I said earlier...I have never bought the "soft" label in the NBA. To be successful at the NBA level takes an incredible amount of mental and physical toughness. I don't root for Nowitzki but to call a guy who has hit as many clutch shots he has and won the MVP soft, IMO, is ignorant.

[ambchang]

Okay, the use of "no one" was a poor choice of words, although you should have known what I meant by the very next statement when I said "pretty much everyone here said it was not a smart move by Howard." But I'm not going to go any further into that, since I did misuse the word in the first place, and that you love to pick and choose what you quote, kind of like you did with your last quote here. There is more than one way to not let people with you. Howard chose to do it in a way that I don't condone. I said in a number of other posts, the way in which I feel he should have reacted. You need to cut that "pick and choose" out man. Thats ing re ed.

But my point is that several people (mostly people I thought wereMavs fans) have condoned Howard's actions. it's nothing extraordinary, if in a preseason game, Duncan lost it and started to shove some guy's neck, I can pretty much guarantee half the board would be saying what Duncan did was acceptable, or even commendable.
And I read what I read, there was a sudden change in at ude between pages 3 and 4 of this thread, before, it was all "Howard did was OK", then there starts to have doubts about his actions when emotions calmed down. Again, nothing unique.

[Obstructed_View]

Not sure what listening to rap has to do with anything... But I play quite a bit of basketball too, and one thing is for sure... people don't ever want to pick up someone that is soft as nails, takes crap, doesn't mind losing to keep peace, and doesn't use opponents trash talking and "punking" as motivation.

But running up and hitting a guy from behind, especially in a preseason game just makes you a hothead. It doesn't erase any other deficiencies in a guy's game. Josh Howard is a really good player, but what he did is proof that he's mentally weak, not that he's mentally strong.

[stretch]

Are you implying Robinson is mentally soft compared to Shaq? Was Shaq not involved in more fights, lost it and sworn on national TV? When has Robinson lost his mind? When has Robinson been physically or mentally intimidated into subpar performance?

And the growling after dunk comment was making fun of people who label people soft, was that not too obvious?

I never once said anything about Robinson being soft compared to Shaq. I just said that tons of blocks, rebounds, and taking hard fouls have little-to-nothing to do with being mentally strong. In fact, I agree that it was ridiculous for people to bash on him, they way they did, much like I think it's ridiculous for people to bash on Dirk the way they do, even though by track history, I could understand why, despite it being unfair criticism.

However, I will say that I do believe Shaq was mentally tougher. He wouldn't let no one with him, thus giving him a mental edge on opponents. He intimidated people a lot more than Robinson did. That's part of the reason hes a greater center than Robinson was. Thats a big reason why he was so great, period. He had a very intimidating appearance and mentality. And everyone knew he wouldn't take crap, and if you tried to with him, he would make you pay dearly, typically with a couple monster dunks right over their head.

[ambchang]

Like I said... this whole conversation was about MENTAL toughness... NOT PHYSICAL toughness. Those are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS.

You mean to tell me, that as a Mavericks fan, that you don't believe that Dirk can be a soft choker? You mean to tell me that when people give him that label, that they have no reason to give it to him whatsoever? Come on now... I'm a Mavs fan too, but I understand completely why people say that, and it is true so far. Personally, I think he will soon get over the hump, but for now, its fitting.

Which brings the question of how Howard's action would help the Mavericks shed the mentally soft label? Would it not even further strengthen that label?

[ponky]

LOL, i miss u fillmoe.....it was those cornrows on brad miller that sent jho over the edge!