If the Mavs need Harris this badly, they aren't a contender

[ratm1221]

I can agree with that, but also, in order to be a great defender you have to play smart, something Howard knows nothing of.

Is there anyone you like on the Mavericks besides Brandon Bass?

[stretch]

Dude, playoffs haven't started yet and you're already ing about potential calls??? Get over it.

I've see Dirk get plenty of those same ticky-tack fouls. Superstars like Wade and Kobe will get foul calls because they are aggresive and know how to take it to the basket...something which if Dirk learned to do more of he'd get more calls.

What the are you talking about? I never once mentioned the playoffs when talking about Josh Howard's defensive ability. I just said that he has a tendency to pick up dumb fouls early, and thus when playing against superstar players who get calls more easily, he has to play even lighter defense to stay out of foul trouble.

Pull your head out of your ass, spurs fan.

[Findog]

This is a classic catch-22. The current Mavs team was constructed with the primary objective of countering the Spurs. Devin Harris is the perfect Parker defender.

If you trade Harris, you lose a key piece of the puzzle in countering the Spurs. Harris, however, will get used by physically stronger guards (Baron, Deron, Billups) or by PGs that can play methodical half-court pick-n-roll while having the range to knock down the long ball (Nash, CP3, Deron, Billups). If you get Kidd, he won't get bullied around in the half-court. But then Parker will have a field day in running a one-man fast-break if you put old man Kidd on him.

So it depends on which matchup is more crucial to win a playoff series. Do you think it is more critical to keep Parker in check while playing the Spurs? Or do you think stopping Davis or Deron is more important while playing the GSW/Jazz?

I'd rather keep Harris. Josh Howard is a guy that I like defending the bigger guards in the 4th quarter of a playoff game.

[stretch]

I can agree with that, but also, in order to be a great defender you have to play smart, something Howard knows nothing of.

I agree. I'm just talking about pure defensive ability, he is definitley one of the better defenders in the league. If he started playing smarter, he could be among the top 10 perimeter defenders in the league with ease, maybe even top 5.

[monosylab1k]

Is there anyone you like on the Mavericks besides Brandon Bass?

Is there anyone on the Mavs who you aren't actively trying to suck off 24/7? Everyone on the Mavs is a perfect player, right?

[Findog]

I always like Findog's posts. They are usually dead-on.

Thanks.

[ElNono]

Ginobili is awesome, but how can you compare the two? Dirk is a Batman, Manu is a Robin. A team with Dirk as its best player will win around 60 games every year and is a threat to go deep in the playoffs. A team with Manu as its best player will be a .500 team. He's better off posting pics of Duncan.

I don't care about the Olympics or FIBA.

Well, that's convenient. That you don't care doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Plus Dirk is such a Robin that the whole reason Dallas needs to upgrade is to bring some sort of Batman with balls so he can provide what Dirk lacks.
I understand you're a Dirk homer, and you won't agree with me. There's nothing wrong with that.

One other thing I don't get is why people here are clamoring for Miller? He's just another shooter. I agree with you in that you would be better served with a big that has some kind of post game.

[monosylab1k]

One other thing I don't get is why people here are clamoring for Miller? He's just another shooter.

Not that I endorse it, but it appears that this team insists on being jump shooters. They refuse to attack the basket with consistency. We've been waiting for a change for 3 years now and it hasn't happened. It will never happen. Dirk will tell us every year about how he'll work on a post game, and the next year he will still have no post game. It is what it is.

My philosophy is that if they are what they are, and they refuse to make a move for Kidd, then we might as well load up on as many great shooters as possible. Get rid of low percentage chuckers (Stackhouse), and if we're gonna try to shoot our way to a le, then do it with the best personnel possible. Mike Miller is the best shooter available, so we might as well get him, since that doesn't mean gutting out roster.

[Findog]

Well, that's convenient. That you don't care doesn't mean it didn't happen.

FIBA rules are a lot different from NBA rules. Tim Duncan isn't as effective in international play. I guarantee you if they played the Olympics under NBA rules, the US would slaughter all comers. Ginobili is a fine player, but Dirk is a franchise player while Manu is not.

Plus Dirk is such a Robin that the whole reason Dallas needs to upgrade is to bring some sort of Batman with balls so he can provide what Dirk lacks.

Dallas lacks size and scoring at the two and another interior defender. I'm no homer, there are plenty of flaws and holes in Dirk's game. If he was the pussy you say he is, the Mavs would not have been one of the elite teams in the league that past several years.

One other thing I don't get is why people here are clamoring for Miller?

Because when teams collapse on Dirk in the playoffs and he swings the ball outside to a open shooter like Miller, a few makes and the opposition will have to rethink doubling Dirk. Terry is a two in a one's body. Look at what Korver has done for the Jazz: he gives Boozer and Williams more freedom to operate when he's in the game because you have to stay with him and not let him have an open look. They've taken off since that trade. Miller would have a similar effect on Dallas.

[Findog]

As long as George approves the trade,

And why would he do that? "Hey Devean, help us out and go to Memphis or New Jersey."

[monosylab1k]

And why would he do that? "Hey Devean, help us out and go to Memphis or New Jersey."

If he really wants out of here as much as he says he does then he will. Plus he'll get more playing time at either of those places, meaning a better chance to showcase his "skills" and dupe somebody else into giving him a contract.

[Findog]

If he really wants out of here as much as he says he does then he will. Plus he'll get more playing time at either of those places, meaning a better chance to showcase his "skills" and dupe somebody else into giving him a contract.

Maybe. Plus he's got three rings so that motivation might not necessarily be there.

[ludda]

Mavs have noone to make teams pay when they play aggressive and double up Dirk and take away his game. Really simple as that.

Asking Dirk to become a dominant post player is a pipe dream. Its not his game. Just like shooting fadeaway Js is not Shaqs.
That's why I said earlier, Mavs are still too dependent on Dirk and until they get another star or other players that make them a more versatile team besides all being soft jumpershooters, I don't see them going very far.

[ElNono]

FIBA rules are a lot different from NBA rules. Tim Duncan isn't as effective in international play. I guarantee you if they played the Olympics under NBA rules, the US would slaughter all comers. Ginobili is a fine player, but Dirk is a franchise player while Manu is not.

Correction. Cuban wants Dirk to be a franchise player. So far it hasn't worked.
We will never know how good or not Manu would have been if somebody would have tried to make him a franchise player (or he decided he wanted to be, like Stephen Jackson). That's a plus for us Spurs fans, and I don't see how you can hold it against him. Plus without Manu we flat out do not win, at the very least, the 2005 championship. You can ask any Spurs fan that and you will get the same response.

Dallas lacks size and scoring at the two and another interior defender. I'm no homer, there are plenty of flaws and holes in Dirk's game. If he was the pussy you say he is, the Mavs would not have been one of the elite teams in the league that past several years.

Do they give you a trophy for being an 'elite team'? If you don't win it all, does it matter? The Suns have been an 'elite team' also since Dirk's been made the franchise player in Dallas. Who cares? Like mono said, going from a good team to a very good team is great, but at some point 'very good' doesn't cut it anymore.

Because when teams collapse on Dirk in the playoffs and he swings the ball outside to a open shooter like Miller, a few makes and the opposition will have to rethink doubling Dirk. Terry is a two in a one's body. Look at what Korver has done for the Jazz: he gives Boozer and Williams more freedom to operate when he's in the game because you have to stay with him and not let him have an open look. They've taken off since that trade. Miller would have a similar effect on Dallas.

The Jazz actually have a post game and a very good post player. Just like the Spurs they can play an inside-out game.
I don't see the same inside presence in Dallas. Even if they double Dirk, a 3pt shot is a very low percentage shot (40% tops?) Do you want to keep jump shooting?

[lurker]

Devean has been getting the playing time he wanted and some nice words from Avery ever since he said he'd be okay with a trade. I think he's happy now.

[Findog]

Correction. Cuban wants Dirk to be a franchise player. So far it hasn't worked.

Well, I guess you can't be a "franchise" guy if you don't win a le, then? So LeBron James isn't a franchise player? Steve Nash? Chris Paul? Carmelo Anthony? Jason Kidd? Baron Davis? Kevin Garnett? I guess it so far hasn't worked for those guys either being a #1 guy.

You can ask any Spurs fan that and you will get the same response.

And Josh Howard is just as important to us as Manu is to the Spurs. We don't beat San Antonio without Josh.

Do they give you a trophy for being an 'elite team'? If you don't win it all, does it matter?

29 teams "fail" every year. The argument isn't whether or not the Mavs have accomplished as much as the Spurs or Pistons, it's whether or not to "blow it up" and if Dirk lacks some sort of "toughness" gene. Considering he plays hurt, considering what he's accomplished in his career, and what this Mavs team has done, I think he has it in him, and I think they deserve one more chance before a major roster overhaul. Does that mean I think they're going to do it? I don't know, but I like our chances as much as anybody outside of Boston and San Antonio. There will be plenty of time in the summer to go in a different direction.

The Jazz actually have a post game and a very good post player. Just like the Spurs they can play an inside-out game.
I don't see the same inside presence in Dallas. Even if they double Dirk, a 3pt shot is a very low percentage shot (40% tops?) Do you want to keep jump shooting?

That's what they got Bass for. This team is very different when they're missing 3 starters and Stack.

[ElNono]

Well, I guess you can't be a "franchise" guy if you don't win a le, then? So LeBron James isn't a franchise player? Steve Nash? Chris Paul? Carmelo Anthony? Jason Kidd? Baron Davis? Kevin Garnett? I guess it so far hasn't worked for those guys either being a #1 guy.

No, what I'm trying to point out is that using the term 'franchise player' to rate a talented player against another means absolutely nothing.
KG in Wolvesland was THE franchise player. How did that work out?
TMac has been a franchise player forever, he still has to get past the first round.
VC is a franchise player, also always choking in the playoffs (even when playing with another franchise player).
Philly got tired of waiting for AI, the franchise player, to deliver.
There's countless examples of that. Eventually, the GM realizes the 'franchise player' can't deliver and moves on.

29 teams "fail" every year. The argument isn't whether or not the Mavs have accomplished as much as the Spurs or Pistons, it's whether or not to "blow it up" and if Dirk lacks some sort of "toughness" gene. Considering he plays hurt, considering what he's accomplished in his career, and what this Mavs team has done, I think he has it in him, and I think they deserve one more chance before a major roster overhaul. Does that mean I think they're going to do it? I don't know, but I like our chances as much as anybody outside of Boston and San Antonio. There will be plenty of time in the summer to go in a different direction.

Actually, the only argument is whether or not to blow up the team. And I don't think you do. Dallas is not like the Suns or Spurs whose talented guy is old and needs to win now. Still, I think they need an upgrade, balls wise.

That's what they got Bass for. This team is very different when they're missing 3 starters and Stack.

Bass, the rookie, is your plan for post play in the playoffs? Good luck with that.

[Findog]

Bass, the rookie, is your plan for post play in the playoffs? Good luck with that.

He's a third-year player, not a rookie. He was brought in because we couldn't punish small-ball teams like Phoenix or Golden State. I like what a healthy Dirk and Bass have done against Golden State this year.

[Shank]

I'm interested in knowing the definition of "balls" and how a team goes about acquiring said "balls".

[Findog]

I'm interested in knowing the definition of "balls" and how a team goes about acquiring said "balls".

I thought Dirk had two of them, but what do I know? All this time our starting PF was a eunuch?

[ElNono]

I'm interested in knowing the definition of "balls" and how a team goes about acquiring said "balls".

From Dictionary.com:

ball /bɔl/ Pronunciation Key
–noun
1. a spherical or approximately spherical body or shape; sphere: He rolled the piece of paper into a ball.
2. a round or roundish body, of various sizes and materials, either hollow or solid, for use in games, as baseball, football, tennis, or golf.
3. a game played with a ball, esp. baseball: The boys are out playing ball.
4. Baseball. a pitched ball, not swung at by the batter, that does not pass over home plate between the batter's shoulders and knees.
5. Military.
a. a solid, usually spherical projectile for a cannon, rifle, pistol, etc., as distinguished from a s .
b. projectiles, esp. bullets, collectively.
6. any part of a thing, esp. of the human body, that is rounded or protuberant: the ball of the thumb.
7. a round mass of food, as of chopped meat, dough, or candy.
8. Slang: Vulgar. a testis.
9. balls, Slang: Vulgar.

a. boldness; courage; brashness.
b. nonsense (often used as an interjection).

10. bolus (def. 1).


As far as how you go about acquiring them, you get a player with those qualities...

[Shank]

I'm interested in knowing who has "balls" on the other contenders around the league and what cons utes their boldness. And then, who's to say these same qualities aren't found on any player on the Mavs roster?

[ElNono]

I'm interested in knowing who has "balls" on the other contenders around the league and what cons utes their boldness.

Off the top of my head: Cassell, Billups, Kobe, Duncan...

I already described previously on this thread what the qualities of a leader are.

And then, who's to say these same qualities aren't found on any player on the Mavs roster?

The proof is in the pudding...

[Findog]

The proof is in the pudding...

And one in the hand is worth two in the bush

You dance with the ones who brung you

When the going gets tough, the tough get going

You either have what it takes or you don't

You can't win if you don't try

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link

You just have to take it one step at a time

It all comes to making shots and getting stops

[monosylab1k]

I was just looking at some old threads, admiring my visionary genius.

I may decide to go back to the numerous threads where I threw out a controversial opinion, everybody talked to me about how I was an idiot, and it turns out I gave almost a picture perfect crystal ball look into the future. And believe me, these threads are numerous.

Thankfully Donnie and Cuban saw my line of thinking and changed the culture of this team. Took you s long enough.

The only thing in this thread I was wrong about was my confidence that Devean George wouldn't poopoo a trade to New Jersey even a genius can be wrong once in a while.