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Who is blaming you?
Sure it is. Guilty by association is what yoni says.
Who is blaming you?
Damn you are such a hater. Now I know why as much as I try, even at the GTG's to like you as a person you make it very hard. But I won't stop trying.
John McCain is above all this. I commend his statement about this issue.
I must admit though that this issue will in all probability will turn what small percentage of the white vote Barack had against him and Hillary will smash him in PA.
The enthusiasm and spark of his campaign has been doused and it may become almost impossible for him to recover from it. The damage has been done and it is just more ammunition for those against him to use against him. Joe Pags on WOAI is doing the Hannitizing now but he's never like Obama from the start.
I'm still behind Obama because I do not believe, at all, that he has the same views as his Pastor. Just as I don't believe John McCain has the same views as Hagee.
Even though I made my previous remarks about TPark I do believe he is good person but sometimes his words turn others off. , I know some of my posts urk people but I'm not out to win a spot on anyone's "Top 10 Posters" list and on that I think TPark and I are on the same page.
This is what our politic discourse is nowadays? Issues no longer matter, it's all just "gothcha" politics. You say you admire a man for one facet of his life and now you necessarily assume responsibility for every other facet of his life as well.
, I got married at St. James Church on Theo St. even though I strongly disagree with the Catholic church on their stances on certain political (some would argue moral) issues. Why did I get married there? It's the community church. My family's been attending that church since before I was born. My wife and her family belong to church. The priest at the church, Father Emmet, has presided over every funeral, wedding, baptism, etc. in my family. Heck, the guy will probably baptize my son. We attend the church from time to time, more for the community aspect than anything (I, myself, am an atheist). I sit and listen to the sermons. Many are uplifting and at times, I enjoy the message. But again, I disagree with just about everything the church stands for politically and would hate to have the church's stances somehow attributed to me because of my attendance at St. James.
I was listening to Joe Pags last night and I don't know if he's just trying to generate interest in his show by saying outlandish things or if he really is that stupid. Last night, he said something to the effect of "Barack talks about hope and change, but the more I learn about him, the more obvious it is that the hope and change he wants is to get rid of the white man."
So now Barack's a Black separatist?
No, it's guilt by voluntary, continued, long-term, close, and fraternal association over a period of 20 years. The man baptized his children and Obama continues to expose his children to this idiot's bigoted, hate-filled sermons, week after week after week.
And, as for your pedophile analogy; you tried to change the subject to that of the church and not the priest. Another attempt by bumbling Joe to throw and orange into an apple conversation. No one said you should turn your back on the Catholic faith because of the actions of one priest. But, if you knew the priest at your church was a pedophile and did nothing yet, even worse, continued to be a parishoner at that church for 20 years, allowing him to baptize your children, using the le of his sermons for the le of your book, etc... You'd be guilty of his sins by association.
Mr. Peabody, I expected better from you. Considering his association with Wright, he may well be a black separatist. Guess what? Politicians lie to get into office.
After sitting under Wright's pastorship for 20 years, it's no wonder that Ms. Obama said that "for the first time in my adult life, I"m proud of my Country". Her clarification of that statement, that "clearly <if it was clear you wouldn't have to clarify it>I meant that for the first time I'm seeing people rolling up their sleeves, trying to figure this thing out," etc., was to me disingenuous. It would have made more sense if she had said something along the lines of, "for the first I'm proud of my Country because it became apparent, especially in light of the fact that Obama was carrying a majority of the white male vote, that a large percentage of white people can look beyond the color of a person, and come to thought out conclusions, based on content, with race playing no part in their decision" <that's not to suggest that those voting for Hillary are voting based on race, that would be an ignorant viewpoint>. That makes more sense to me, and I don't feel it would have been interpreted in such a way as to damage his candidacy
Heck, we haven't been far removed from the days of forced segration, separate but equal facilities, racial stereotyping <---still not totally out of the backwoods on this one>, etc. She would have every right, as do all who don't judge a person by the color of their skin, to feel proud that those days are progressively being put behind us.
Just my two cents worth, maybe she doesn't feel that way at all.
Obama's comment regarding Wright's rant about God damning America "I didn't hear it in person" was soooo lame! Was that supposed to serve as a disclaimer and reassure the voters that he wholeheartedly rejected the message? Why the delay in issuing his denoucement of Wright's 7 year old hateful comments? Did he have to check with Wright to make sure he could get his blessing on releasing a repudiation of his hate mongering? Another backroom "wink-wink" deal, ala the anti-Nafta rhetoric and alledged backroom reassurance he gave Canada that it was no more than "campaign rhetoric"?
A quick and decisive denouncement would have stunted much of the distrust and speculation that now abounds.
These concerns are legitimate and for the vast majority of people, have absolutely to do with hate or race.
And Joe, I have respect for you and your opinions, but Hagee wasn't McCain's Pastor for 20 years, so your attempted parallel of those 2 with Obama and Wright wasn't a good one.
I'm not bumbling at all. And yes, I agree that IF I knew a Priest was a pedophile and continued to support him than I would be guilty.
I'm not changing the subject at all, and that wasn't my intention. Perhaps my analogy wasn't a good one but my intent was there. I'll grant you that.
But I still stand behind Obama and am not going to hold the words and actions of his Pastor against him.
He has said he does not agree with the controversial statements of Pastor Wright and I take him on his word....as does John McCain.
Just like you continue to support Bush after he's been caught in lies of his own. And yes, politicians lie to get into and stay in office.
Good points though.
Doesn't change the fact that Hagee made and still sticks behind his statements and McCain has not denounced his endorsement. But I don't hold it against McCain AT ALL. I know McCain doesn't share those views.
Those were my thoughts as well while I was listening to his show. If he truly believes that is what Obama thinks then Pags is just as ignorant as others.This is what our politic discourse is nowadays? Issues no longer matter, it's all just "gothcha" politics. You say you admire a man for one facet of his life and now you necessarily assume responsibility for every other facet of his life as well.
, I got married at St. James Church on Theo St. even though I strongly disagree with the Catholic church on their stances on certain political (some would argue moral) issues. Why did I get married there? It's the community church. My family's been attending that church since before I was born. My wife and her family belong to church. The priest at the church, Father Emmet, has presided over every funeral, wedding, baptism, etc. in my family. Heck, the guy will probably baptize my son. We attend the church from time to time, more for the community aspect than anything (I, myself, am an atheist). I sit and listen to the sermons. Many are uplifting and at times, I enjoy the message. But again, I disagree with just about everything the church stands for politically and would hate to have the church's stances somehow attributed to me because of my attendance at St. James.
I was listening to Joe Pags last night and I don't know if he's just trying to generate interest in his show by saying outlandish things or if he really is that stupid. Last night, he said something to the effect of "Barack talks about hope and change, but the more I learn about him, the more obvious it is that the hope and change he wants is to get rid of the white man."
So now Barack's a Black separatist?
So now we shouldn't judge people by their own words/actions, but rather the words of the people they are associated with?
Look, my grandfather, a man who I admire immensely and saw somewhat as a father figure, was as racist as racist can be. Seriously, the guy thought that Blacks couldn't be trusted, were sinister, etc. But just because I admire the man, doesn't mean I accept his views whole-cloth. I recognize that he was brought up in a different era and probably didn't know many Blacks when he was growing up. He was ignorant when it came to other races or cultures. However, according to your logic, I very well may be a racist because I admire the guy. I think view this ignores the life that I've lived, the people I've cared about and the actions I have taken.
All that being said though, I did watch some youtube videos of Wright and some of the things he said were idiotic.
Last edited by Mr. Peabody; 03-15-2008 at 10:43 AM.
I am sure the reason it took so long do denounce his pastor is because he would essentially be denouncing his church. I imagine he didn't want to have to do that. He probably has friends and associates in the church, people he has known for a long time. It's almost like denouncing a member of your family.
Naturally when McCain receives an endorsement from Hagee, it's not an acceptance of the "Reverend's" views.
Here we are again. Playing this stupid ing game while the country is $9 trillion in debt ($1 tril of that is to the Communist- -Capitalist Chinese), budget deficits as far as the eye can see, unsustainable en lement program liabilities, slowing economic growth, with the dollar hitting all-time lows against every other major currency, $110/bbl oil, residential housing markets in meltdown, the Fed printing money like mad and bailing out Wall Street and we're worried about someone's minister? This is so ing stupid.
Okay, again, you're not getting it. It's the old you can pick your friends but you can't pick your family thing. You were related to your grandfather and, in some respects, were forced to accept his idiosychratic ways. In that environment, I'm sure you were able to find many things to respect and admire...because, well, he was family and you wanted to see the good.
Obama's membership in a church with a bigoted pastor is purely voluntary.
He had the racist on his campaign team.
Thank goodness we're talking about the real issues facing this country.
What I find amazing is this just came out. On the political board I go to, this has been part of the discussion for the better part of a year. We're have people been ?
There is one "X" Factor in this whole thing...Oprah. She has a decision to make; spend her considerable celebrity capital redeeming Wright, who is also her pastor, or...propping up Obama.
Can't wait to see the Oprah promos next week. Of course, it could backfire on her as well. There are a lot of Soccer Moms that worship at the church of Oprah. She'd better be careful not to damage her own brand in the process of trying to fix Obama's mess.
Besides, what the is she doing at that racist church too?
No, Obama's church and pastor have been discussed here in the past. It's just that now that Hannity and the rest have made this a major issue, others on this board now see it as a major issue as well.
Trash Obama for his middle name,
trash Obama for his minister's hateful bull ,
trash Obama for just anything rather than keep the real issues of Iraq, healthcare, economy in voters' attention.
Last edited by boutons_; 03-15-2008 at 08:47 PM.
And you couldn't help but to engage in the "stupidity" before pontificating from your own little soap box. <below>
Obama's brought this upon himself by not bolting from, or confronting Uncle Wright as he was making those comments.
IMO, since he did neither, he possibly;
1. doesn't have the intestinal for ude to confront situations that make him uncomfortable or,
2. The abominable, racist, hateful comments from Wright didn't bother him.
These issues are still in the forefront of all major news mediums and they are still issues to be discussed in forums such as this. And the reason they're still hot topics? Because if either of the above, or some other unsavory reasoning behind Obama's apathy to Wright's vitriolic rhetoric are substantiated, then he would not be cut from the timber that enables a man to effectively lead this Country for the next 4 years.
No one is forced to participate in the discussion, so don't participate.
And Holt, if you're so -bent on discussing only the "serious" problems facing our Country and not "stupid" stuff, why are you starting threads such as;
"Where are the TP hatas"?
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89593
And which of the Country's problems problems are being solved with posts like this;
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87711
Last edited by jochhejaam; 03-15-2008 at 06:32 PM.
Many of you are dancing around the real issue.
Obama calls someone who is clearly a racist, a close friend and a mentor of 20 years. There is no way in he doesn't know this man's thoughts in this area.
Now. If any white man called himself a close friend to a White Supremacist, and mentor for 20 years...
This is what the problem is.
Why do blacks get a pass on this? If a white republican had a similar relationship, the attacks in the news would be making sure such a point was made. Over and over, relentlessly. Civil rights groups would be screaming.
Who stand up for the white man against black racists?
Anyone?
Any of you rationalizing a pass for Obama on this one... You ers disgust me! Any thing short of Obama not completely cutting this man off from access, and forcefully denouncing him. Not just his words. Is completely inadequate.
Say anything that questions the color of Obama's skin into play, and people get fired.... Shouldn't it work both ways?
I'm getting so sick and tired of special rights. The black community will never be equal until we feel equal about hate speech initiated by them.
Does Obama still have a cabinet position for him?
Really, I think my version gives Obama as much credit as possible. In my view, Obama is just an opportunistic politician who goes to the "right" church to build up his political bona fides. In my view, he is only pretending to regard a hate-filled, conspiracy-theorizing, anti-American lunatic as his closest spiritual advisor.
I mean, every big city probably has at least one left-wing social-gospel fake church with a pastor hung over from the black-power '60s, more or less. And clearly TUCC was the "in" place for upwardly mobile urban Chicago blacks. Oprah goes there, yet somehow she apparently has avoided becoming anti-American.
Church membership out of political expediency is nothing new.
In the other possibility, Obama truly regarded a hate-filled, conspiracy-theorizing, anti-American lunatic as his closest spiritual advisor.
Would you like to pick one?
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