Since When Starving a Dog to Death is Called Art

[johngateswhiteley]

Then perhaps it was an ineffective approach to the message he was trying to convey.

maybe...maybe not. fortunately, there are more people that can take action than in this thread, lol.

see post #124. and i thank you for your mature outlook and approach.

[CuckingFunt]

Yet, one can make a rationalized arguement about sexism in Duchamp's "Fountain".

You just can't do the same about forcing an animal to die.

For you to try to rationalize it as art is just . . . nevermind, I'm not in your league of superior-minded art.

And, yet again, you're trying to bait me by arguing points I never made. I never defended, never rationalized, and never labeled it as superior.

[MoSpur]

Like I said earlier, no matter how anyone tries to spin this, IMO, this is not art. Its a crude act on a defenseless animal. No ifs ands or buts.

[MannyIsGod]

No. ing. .

But, maybe they were all like CF, repulsed yet intrigued by the "art".

Why do you have to equate someone who disagrees with you on whether or not its art to the people who allowed it to happen? I don't understand why you guys have a hard time understanding that there are people here who feel this fits the defention of art but that they in no way support it.

Does it make you feel better to act as though you're on some kind of moral high ground? I'm sure you got those fat fingers by eating nothing but corn, right?

[CuckingFunt]

Yeah Im almost as disgusted by the jackasses that didn't feed the dog, as the nut that thought it was art.

Almost as disgusted? I'm easily more disgusted by the people who watched and did nothing.

The guy who chained the dog up may have been completely misguided, but at least he'd convinced himself he was doing it for a reason. Everyone else who walked by and stared ignored the dog's pain without any investment in a particular artistic vision.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I would love to do some "artwork" on this guys face with my dental drill.

See if you can get some dough from the NEA while you're at it.

[MoSpur]

I understand that there people here are saying that what he did is art, but don't think what he did was right. I just can't seem to get how some people in here say its art. Its not. It didn't really take much creativity. He found a dog, tied it up, and watched it die. How is that art?

[T Park]

What makes the entire issue of starvation so poignant to me is the fact that it's happening no matter how hard people/animals/whatever try to overcome it .. but at least until the very end there can be hope.

This dude just tied an animal up and didn't give it any food, without it even having a chance. Any and everything will fail 100% of the time in that scenario. So, not only was it atrocious, it was a gigantic FAIL.



And I would have fed the dog. What would that guy have done about it? Tied me up and starved me, too?

Great post.

[MannyIsGod]

One thing that is apparent here is that people are definitely applying AMERICAN values to someone who obviously lives in a different culture. I'm fairly certain that if people from another culture - say an Islamic one? - viewed some things that happen here they'd be as disgusted as we are about what has happened in this situation.

There's a very fine line one needs to walk when viewing the actions of another culture through the eyes of their own.

[T Park]

I understand that there people here are saying that what he did is art, but don't think what he did was right. I just can't seem to get how some people in here say its art. Its not. It didn't really take much creativity. He found a dog, tied it up, and watched it die. How is that art?

Good question.

[E20]

Someone said if this were happening to a possum or a rat would you be upset? Me? Yes I would I get pissed when any animal gets ed. Insects OTOH I don't really care about, because there are so many.

[MannyIsGod]

I understand that there people here are saying that what he did is art, but don't think what he did was right. I just can't seem to get how some people in here say its art. Its not. It didn't really take much creativity. He found a dog, tied it up, and watched it die. How is that art?

And thats where you can debate things all day and everyone leaves with their own opinion on it, but having a different opinion shoudln't automaticaly mean you admonish this person and the people around him of any wrong doing.

[MoSpur]

Almost as disgusted? I'm easily more disgusted by the people who watched and did nothing.

The guy who chained the dog up may have been completely misguided, but at least he'd convinced himself he was doing it for a reason. Everyone else who walked by and stared ignored the dog's pain without any investment in a particular artistic vision.

How come you excuse him as being misguided, but not the people who passed by and did nothing? I'm not trying to pick on you or argue. Just wondering.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I don't want to say this guy is ed up, but the last time I can remember anyone expousing death as art was this guy...

[MoSpur]

I don't think that its American values that are being applied. To me, its common sense. I have family in Mexico that would find what this guy did as wrong. So would they be applying Mexican values because they find this act as wrong?

[monosylab1k]

One thing that is apparent here is that people are definitely applying AMERICAN values to someone who obviously lives in a different culture.

So valuing the life of another living thing is strictly American?

[E20]

One thing that is apparent here is that people are definitely applying AMERICAN values to someone who obviously lives in a different culture. I'm fairly certain that if people from another culture - say an Islamic one? - viewed some things that happen here they'd be as disgusted as we are about what has happened in this situation.

There's a very fine line one needs to walk when viewing the actions of another culture through the eyes of their own.

Good point, you're not supposed to judge other cultures by your standards. A good example is that Eskimoes practiced infanticide and when Westerners first met them they were appalled, and thought taht Eskimoes didn't care for their young, but they didn't know about Eskimoes enough to actually make a valid claim, but this starving of a dog IMO has nothing to do with starvation. No matter how much starved an animal or dying african kid is they can still go and look for food, they weren't tied up.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I understand that there people here are saying that what he did is art, but don't think what he did was right. I just can't seem to get how some people in here say its art. Its not. It didn't really take much creativity. He found a dog, tied it up, and watched it die. How is that art?

Its been explained in the preceeding posts. Go back and check it out. I for one have found this whole discussion quite informative. If this thread proved anything, its that art is completely subjective.

Again, people aren't saying the dude was right, they're saying that what he did could be considered art.

[MannyIsGod]

How come you excuse him as being misguided, but not the people who passed by and did nothing? I'm not trying to pick on you or argue. Just wondering.

Assuming he's not just some sadistic or a sociopath (which isn't beyond the realm of possibility) he had to come up with some rationalization to be able to do this in order to be able to sleep at night. But what reason did the witnesses to this have in order to let it happen?

[MoSpur]

And thats where you can debate things all day and everyone leaves with their own opinion on it, but having a different opinion shoudln't automaticaly mean you admonish this person and the people around him of any wrong doing.

I disagree. I apply common sense to this situation. Its wrong and those who took part are wrong IMO.

[CuckingFunt]

How come you excuse him as being misguided, but not the people who passed by and did nothing? I'm not trying to pick on you or argue. Just wondering.

I don't excuse him as being misguided.

I don't think it makes his actions okay, but I recognize a difference in thought process.

[MannyIsGod]

So valuing the life of another living thing is strictly American?

First of all, a dog is not all encompassing. Because Hondrans don't care about dogs (apparently) doesn't mean they don't care about living things. But the love affair with the dog is not something shared across the world. I would definetly say that Americans value the life of a dog much higher than most other parts of the world.

[peewee's lovechild]

Does it make you feel better to act as though you're on some kind of moral high ground? I'm sure you got those fat fingers by eating nothing but corn, right?

If it was a gorilla that was starved to death, would it help you understand where we're coming from, being that it's realtively from the same family of the animal kingdom that you obviously come from?

[MoSpur]

I don't excuse him as being misguided.

I don't think it makes his actions okay, but I recognize a difference in thought process.

I see. Okay.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't think that its American values that are being applied. To me, its common sense. I have family in Mexico that would find what this guy did as wrong. So would they be applying Mexican values because they find this act as wrong?

Obviously yes. Do you think people in Africa would care as much? People in Asia?


Let me give you another example. Do you believe a person from the middle east would be appauled to see all the women in the United States walking around dressed the way that they are? They would, and they would consider it common sense.

Yet why don't we feel the same way?