Is there a God?

[TheIllusionist]

Thats not what Jesus the Illusionist would do. Help him MH. He needs saving. Don't give up on him. They have been brainwashed there whole lives. Scared straight.

I can save you.

[smeagol]

smegma?

That is fresh. I don't think I have ever heard it here. It appears you are the Christian because Egyptians before you have called me that. You are a myth

In any case, I'm not here to win any kind of debate. I'm here to be convinced that Atheism is the way. I was an Atheist once, I guess I can be one again. But you guys have not convinced me at all. You have failed miserably.

Unless you can answer the question in a convincing manner, which you refuse to do (or maybe you are simply incapable of doing), I will remain a Christian.

[smeagol]

When you really want to bring the point home, bring Penn & Teller to the table.

If everything fails, you are bound to win any debate with them on your side . . .

How 'bout a bit from Bill Maher's stand up routine?

Hey, he is also one of the greatest philosophers of our age.

[smeagol]

Yes, you have a lot of reading to do. I deduced that from your first post. Try to keep quiet if you don't know what you are talking about in the future, please.

Interesting you have chosen DR, a proven atheist, to fight against in a God thread.

I'm waiting until you also allieanate BB.

You're on a roll . . .

[MiamiHeat]

Interesting you have chosen DR, a proven atheist, to fight against in a God thread.

I'm waiting until you also allieanate BB.

You're on a roll . . .

He is a heathen just like you. Neither of you follow the Truth and the Life, Osiris-Re.

I will pray for you.

[smeagol]

your dad really ed you up.

It is sad you need to take this discussion to such personal levels.

[smeagol]

He is a heathen just like you. Neither of you follow the Truth and the Life, Osiris-Re.

I will pray for you.

So now you have become what you despise the most. A stupid, unfunny troll.

[MiamiHeat]

So now you have become what you despise the most. A stupid, unfunny troll.

Spoken like a true hypocrite. Nothing you have said will change the fact that I believe in the Truth, Osiris-Re. I remain unchanged.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

So, just for the record, how many of you religious types believe that:

1) the earth is about 8600 years old (as would be the case if the Bible were a literal do ent)?

2) that Intelligent Design should be included in science classes?

[smeagol]

You know, I was reading about the Enlightenment period and stumbled upon a pretty good assertion.

Islam has inherent advantaged over Christianity from its youth alone. Islam is not old enough to have ever claimed the formation of Earth and the universe, hasnt been around as long to suppress scientific advancement to only later concede its finer points and provable facts.

Islam only deals in the items of existence which are not provable, thus rendering it unassailable by reasoned minds.

Obviously, I have never read the Quran so I cant say with absolutism that this is true, but if the Quran makes no such claims of creation, I would find this idea intriguing.

Islam is an offspring of Christianity.

[smeagol]

So, just for the record, how many of you religious types believe that:

1) the earth is about 8600 years old (as would be the case if the Bible were a literal do ent)?

2) that Intelligent Design should be included in science classes?

No and No.

[smeagol]

Spoken like a true hypocrite.

Spoken like a true imbecile

Nothing you have said will change the fact that I believe in the Truth, Osiris-Re. I remain unchanged.

Maybe you should start posting long extracts of books. If you are lucky, B2B will start a thread about your troll powers.

[MiamiHeat]

Spoken like a true imbecile

Spoken like a true simpleton

Maybe you should start posting long extracts of books. If you are lucky, B2B will start a thread about your troll powers.

Once again, you have proven nothing. Praise to Osiris.

My religion is older than your fake one.

[smeagol]

Once again, you have proven nothing.

I have proven as much as you . . . nothing.

The difference is you came into this thread with the intention of proving how fake Christianity is and you have failed . . . miserably, I should add.

[MiamiHeat]

My faith is unshaken. My religion is older than yours. You can do nothing to change that fact.

[Phenomanul]

Still waiting for Pheno on this

I never realized you posed this series of questions with an ultimatum affixed to them. I mean you were so giddy at the thought that deriding an honest grammatical error of mine actually meant something.

Besides, who can keep up with all the pages? Particularly when the trolls have interjected the thread with one liner tangential posts of their own... posts that have only derailed the thread.

I also want to point out that each time Pheno tells MH his points are unfounded, debunked or widely unaccepted he provides no counter-point to support his opposing view.

As much as I like learning, I clearly haven't claimed, to know everything. I never have. I do however, tend to post straight from my own knowledgebase as I'm not accustomed to letting random websites make arguments on my behalf - It's simply not my style Having said that, much of my knowledgebase was accrued at the University and from reading several books in my collection.

Half of what MH said concerning Egyptian mythology is cleverly masked at its source, but is nevertheless intentionally deceitful. It was not how I learned it. I'm pretty sure few here have taken a hieroglyphics or an Egyptian History course, much less understand the context of how the symbols, and coptic writtings are related to the culture, the social customs, and the royal eccentricities of the time. In short, if what MH says were true, I'm pretty sure it would have been covered extensively by Professor Jed Buchwald (a MacArthur Fellow who taught the joint Harvard/MIT class at the time). The parallelisms between Egyptian mythology and the Christ role that MH's sources are alluding to are either non-existent, or simply less relevant than what they are making them out to be.

ES did and MH stepped right back up and provided additional fuel to the argument...then ES never returned.

Maybe Extra Stout, realized that MH, much like yourself were not really interested in debating. Frankly, I don't blame him.

This entire discussion has been rather incoherent and lacks the necessary respect from your camp to even bother putting in the effort. Phrases like, "I have irrefutable proof!!!" and "Christians are stupid for believing in GOD" Don't serve but to alienate any semblance of true discussion.

And that's not to say we aren't listening either... I've incorporated arguments and sharpened my own knowledgebase from arguments on this very forum (as well as other venues). People such as Extra Stout, FromWayDowntown, scott, whottt, DarkReign, and smeagol have allowed me to reassess certain positions based on the logical constructs of their arguments. My ego is not that great that I can't admit to that. Our disagreements however were civil and respectful (not so much with whottt ).

You and MiamiHeat (among others) however, have continually disrespected the basic premise behind our approach. I'm sorry but that simply doesn't cut it.

I'll listen to the sun god babble from both sides because it doesn't have a significant impact on my stance.

I see MH being accused of quoting or referencing biased sources. So I'd like Pheno to provide a source that doesn't support Christianity or Jesus but refutes the Sun God stance.

If Pheno can do that (with a reasonably credible source) this debate would be more interesting to me.

Read The Case for the Real Jesus by Lee Strobel.

[MiamiHeat]

Half of what MH said concerning Egyptian mythology is cleverly masked at its source, but is nevertheless intentionally deceitful. It was not how I learned it. I'm pretty sure few here have taken a hieroglyphics or an Egyptian History course, much less understand the context of how the symbols, and coptic writtings are related to the culture, the social customs, and the royal eccentricities of the time. In short, if what MH says were true, I'm pretty sure it would have been covered extensively by Professor Jed Buchwald (a MacArthur Fellow who taught the joint Harvard/MIT class at the time). The parallelisms between Egyptian mythology and the Christ role that MH's sources are alluding to are either non-existent, or simply less relevant than what they are making them out to be.
.

Your rebuttal of the facts provided in this thread is

"Jed Buchwald, a professor at MIT/Harvard, never really brought it up"


Think about that for a second, braniac. There are -several- errors in your line of reasoning.

and THIS is the rebuttal ?

I provide sources and facts and you say "Oh, some professor never really talked about it" as some sort of rebuttal??!

oh no i am laughing. really.

I'm pretty sure few here have taken a hieroglyphics or an Egyptian History course, much less understand the context of how the symbols, and coptic writtings are related to the culture, the social customs, and the royal eccentricities of the time.

That's why we rely on accepted translations from those who DO study it.

You don't know Hebrew or Greek, yet you have no problem accepting those translations. Suddenly, because we don't know how to read egyptian texts first hand, all translations are dismissed?

Clearly, the level of stupidity in this thread is rising. If I show contempt towards you, it's because I do have contempt towards you.

Try to be less biased, please.

[td4mvp21]

So, just for the record, how many of you religious types believe that:

1) the earth is about 8600 years old (as would be the case if the Bible were a literal do ent)?

2) that Intelligent Design should be included in science classes?

1. No idea. I'm not sure if creation as it is in the Bible is literal or metaphoric.

2. I think it should be an elective that is separate from your typical science class and not required for graduation (speaking in terms of high school). I know a lot of people would have taken it (myself included) if it were available at my high school. On the contrary, I wish I would have been taught the theory of evolution growing up. I went to a private school from 1st-8th grade and never learned a bit about it except the typical generalizations. Then, I took biology in 9th grade and I really do not remember the teacher going over the theory of it. I never took biology again after that. I know next to nothing about it.

I do know a handful of Christians (a small handful) who believe in evolution as well as the Christian God. I believe C.S. Lewis does if I remember correctly but I wouldn't quote me on it.

[MiamiHeat]

Maybe Extra Stout, realized that MH, much like yourself were not really interested in debating. Frankly, I don't blame him.

It went a little something like this :

1) The argument is posted. Jesus myth not original, etc etc

2) Extra Stout quotes me and goes point by point saying things like "false" and "fabrication"

3) Love Me Some Me and others are very happy. Woo! Extra Stout said they are false!

4) Facts, sources posted to prove the argument is true. Extra Stout slapped in the mouth and proven wrong.

5) Love Me Some Me changes his tune. From "none of those things are true!" to "Oh, well, it doesn't matter anyway. I am not interested in x, i am only interested in x"

6) 54 pages later....

7) Phenomonaul or whatever your name is comes in the thread. "Your posts all suck! I don't see any debate here, no arguments provided!"


Yeah, by now it's almost over with. Go scroll back and read about it you bum.

[Phenomanul]

Your rebuttal of the facts provided in this thread is

"Jed Buchwald, a professor at MIT/Harvard, never really brought it up"


Think about that for a second, braniac. There are -several- errors in your line of reasoning.

and THIS is the rebuttal ?

I provide sources and facts and you say "Oh, some professor never really talked about it" as some sort of rebuttal??!

oh no i am laughing. really.

Really??? How blinded have you become by your atheistic agenda?

Not only did He not mention it.

Neither did any of our 8 course textbooks... especially a 400 page textbook whose sole focus was Egyptian and Mesopotamian mythologies. Neither did any of the Egyptian Muslim students... I mean, could you imagine if Islam attempted to debunk the JESUS figure by simply claiming he was copied from an ancient Egyptian myth? That would squash all dissention quickly. They would have put that argument to rest centuries ago. Well before the crusades, and well before so many lives were lost. We would have avoided all this unnecessary strife. The fact of the matter is that your sources are lying to you. You've been duped.

I have an appointment. I'll be back later.

[Phenomanul]

It went a little something like this :

1) The argument is posted. Jesus myth not original, etc etc

2) Extra Stout quotes me and goes point by point saying things like "false" and "fabrication"

3) Love Me Some Me and others are very happy. Woo! Extra Stout said they are false!

4) Facts, sources posted to prove the argument is true. Extra Stout slapped in the mouth and proven wrong.

5) Love Me Some Me changes his tune. From "none of those things are true!" to "Oh, well, it doesn't matter anyway. I am not interested in x, i am only interested in x"

6) 54 pages later....

7) Phenomonaul or whatever your name is comes in the thread. "Your posts all suck! I don't see any debate here, no arguments provided!"


Yeah, by now it's almost over with. Go scroll back and read about it you bum.

Really?? I entered the argument at page 50 something?

This argument has been going on well before you became a member.

Not to mention the fact that I actually entered this discussion shortly after Extra Stout's first post.

Anyways, later.

[MiamiHeat]

Really??? How blinded have you become by your atheistic agenda?

Not only did He not mention it.

Neither did any of our 8 course textbooks... especially a 400 page textbook whose sole focus was Egyptian and Mesopotamian mythologies. Neither did any of the Egyptian Muslim students... I mean, could you imagine if Islam attempted to debunk the JESUS figure by simply claiming he was copied from an ancient Egyptian myth? That would squash all dissention quickly. They would have put that argument to rest centuries ago. Well before the crusades, and well before so many lives were lost. We would have avoided all this unnecessary strife. The fact of the matter is that your sources are lying to you. You've been duped.

I have an appointment. I'll be back later.

really, your ignorance knows no bounds.


Go read about the Rosetta Stone, discovered in 1799. It was discovered recently, braniac. How exactly did you want anyone to stop the crusades?

[MiamiHeat]

Really?? I entered the argument at page 50 something?

This argument has been going on well before you became a member.

Not to mention the fact that I actually entered this discussion shortly after Extra Stout's first post.

Anyways, later.

Ah, so you read his BULL without any facts to back it up and then you said "yay!" and ran away.


The argument has been validated with facts and believers have been relegated to just arguing if it matters that jesus is not original.

[Phenomanul]

really, your ignorance knows no bounds.


Go read about the Rosetta Stone, discovered in 1799. It was discovered recently, braniac. How exactly did you want anyone to stop the crusades?

Wow that was easy!

I didn't realize you would fall so quickly.

If the key to deciphering hieroglyphs was only "recently" discovered how did a society 2,000 years ago even know about Egyptian Myths that orginated about 3,000 years before their own time? How did they manage to presumably steal "so many elements" from a myth they couldn't even read or understand? How did 12 humble fishermen even manage to do this? And if it were common knowledge to the Hebrews how come allusions to these myths aren't found in the Hebrew canon?

Thanks for playing.

Don't load your gun too quickly or it may backfire.

Next you're going to try and convince us that King David didn't exist.

Ok, now I really have to go.

[clambake]

how do you know the bible wasn't written by demons bent on confusing mankind?