James > MJ

[DA BULLS]

I can understand Wade because of the injuries he played with. But Jordan played with a pretty wreckless abandon as well, and look how long he lasted. I think Lebron will be around for a long time.

true..but jordan developed a low past game and became a very good shooter in his 30's..he didnt have to take it to the basket as much. if wade can develope into a great shooter than im sure he'll be fine. the only knock on him tho is his height. being 6'4 makes it tough

[DA BULLS]

Only time will tell to see if he is as mentally strong as MJ, but signs show he is capable of even surpassing Jordan's mental approach.[/quote]

he could one day but for now..no way.

[manufan10]

There's definitely a chance for Lebron to, one day, be better than Jordan. Right now, I don't think he is. Jordan was a great player, but can always be surpassed by someone. That someone hasn't passed Jordan yet, but time will tell.

[stretch]

true..but jordan developed a low past game and became a very good shooter in his 30's..he didnt have to take it to the basket as much. if wade can develope into a great shooter than im sure he'll be fine. the only knock on him tho is his height. being 6'4 makes it tough

I agree. I don't think Wade will last as long as Jordan, or as long as I think Lebron will.

[stretch]

he could one day but for now..no way.

and I agree completely. all ive said is that i think lebron has a better approach, and that time will tell.

[dirk4mvp]

There's no way Jordan's vertical was 48, especially when a guy like Carter's isn't even that high.

[manufan10]

There's no way Jordan's vertical was 48, especially when a guy like Carter's isn't even that high.

http://vertcoach.com/highest-vertical-leap.html

Michael Jordan 48"

Vince Carter 43"

Jason Richardson 46"

James White 46"

[dirk4mvp]

Yeah I've seen that. It looks like a website my little sister could put together.

[dirk4mvp]

oh well whatever it is, at least it's higher than Kobe's

[monoslyab1k]

[manufan10]

Yeah I've seen that. It looks like a website my little sister could put together.

That's the best site I could find that actually mentions it, along with other athletes. All the other stuff is just people on message boards sounding off. Oh well.

[DA BULLS]

oh well whatever it is, at least it's higher than Kobe's

go look up some videos on youtube of his early years. theres one game against ny where he gets his damn mouth right at the rim. i used to think vc vertical was higher too..but after i saw that dunk i dnt doubt his was a 48

[DA BULLS]

There's definitely a chance for Lebron to, one day, be better than Jordan. Right now, I don't think he is. Jordan was a great player, but can always be surpassed by someone. That someone hasn't passed Jordan yet, but time will tell.

this is what mj said when discussing the greatest player debate: i believe greatness is an evolutionary process that changes and evovles ere to era. w/out julius erving, david thompson, and elgin baylor there would never have been a michael jordan. i evolved from them. they presented a challenge the example i could improve upon. if i had been born on an island. learned the game by myself and developed into the player i became w/out ever seeing another example, then yes, i would except being called the greatest. but i have used all the great players that came before me to improve my skills. so i cant be the greatest.its not fair to diminsh them in that way. the evolutionary process never ends. somebody is going to improve upon my game. we have seen diff. aspects of greatness in diff. bodies. now we have seen many of those same aspects in one body. in certain down the road even more greatness will be seen in a single player. it used to be that great offensive players never played great defense. there was a driving force in me to prove the notion wrong. i proved a great offensive player can play great defense. but someone will come along who plays even better offense adn defense than me. the nature of evolution is to continue. we have all passed something along through our performance and all that has been written. somewhere there is a little kid working to enhance what we've done. it may take awhile but someone will come along who approaches the game the way i did. he wont skip steps. he wont be afraid. he will learn from my example, just as i learned from others. he will master the fundamentals. maybe he will take off from the free throw line and do a 360 in midair. why not? no one thought there would be 6'9 pont guard or a 7'7 center. evolution knows no bounds. unless they changed the height of the basket or otherwise alter the dimensions of the game there will be a player much greater than me

[mavs>spurs2]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

You seriously would be better off shoving a basketball up your ass than ever debating basketball again.

good points

[Metheny]

Who is/was better at this stage of his career, LeBron James or Michael Jordan?

We realize we tread on sacred ground here. Nobody has matched Jordan for an entire career, by almost any measure. But it's important to note that the legend of MJ owes as much to his six NBA les as to his highlight reels, and that he didn't earn one until his seventh season in the league.

So we start at the beginning, with the most-self-serving-yet-most-repeated-on-talk-radio statistical analysis in the history of sports, the Terry Bradshaw Ring Test. By that measure, which states that a superstar's worth is solely defined by how many pro championships he's won, neither LBJ nor MJ was very good through the sixth season of their respective careers. Certainly they're not Kobe Bryant (three les) or Tim Duncan (two). , they're not even Beno Udrih (two).

After that, things grow murkier, with arguments either way. Check out this comparison of their first six seasons, courtesy of basketball-reference.com:
LEBRON JAMES VS. MICHAEL JORDAN: FIRST SIX SEASONS

A comparison of LeBron James and Michael Jordan across the first six seasons of their careers. These numbers are per 36 minutes.
Player FG% 3FG% FT% ORB DRB REB AST STL BLK TO PF PTS
James .471 .328 .738 1.1 5.1 6.2 5.9 1.6 0.8 2.9 1.8 24.4
Jordan .516 .282 .848 1.7 4.1 5.8 5.5 2.6 1.0 3.0 2.9 30.3

Jordan comes out as a better scorer and defender (at least by the measure of steals), and James a better rebounder, passer and, surprisingly, outside shooter (at least from outside the 3-point line). Going deeper into Basketball Reference's numbers using Dean Oliver's win-shares metric, the argument grows still more complex:

JORDAN VS. JAMES WIN SHARES

A next-level look at the relative value of MJ and LeBron over their first six seasons.
Player Name OWS DWS WS
LeBron James 55.6 27.8 83.4
Michael Jordan 65.4 23.8 89.2

Overall, Jordan has ac ulated more win shares, thanks largely to his edge in point production. But it turns out that, despite an early reputation as a naïf learning to play D, James has been a better defensive "winner." A curiosity in all this is one stat sometimes overlooked in Jordan career retrospectives: durability. Through six seasons, MJ played 50 fewer games than LBJ. Almost all of that owed to a foot injury in Jordan's second year, but LBJ's minutes per game are higher for most of his early years:
LEBRON JAMES' FIRST SIX SEASONS: MINUTES

A look at The King's time on the floor across his first six seasons.
Year Games Games Started MPG
2003-04 79 79 39.5
2004-05 80 80 42.4
2005-06 79 79 42.5
2006-07 78 78 40.9
2007-08 75 74 40.4
2008-09 81 81 37.7
MICHAEL JORDAN'S FIRST SIX SEASONS: MINUTES

MJ's time logged during his first six years in the league.
Year Games Games Started MPG
1984-85 82 82 38.3
1985-86 18 7 25.1
1986-87 82 82 40.0
1987-88 81 81 40.2
1988-89 75 74 40.4
1989-90 82 82 39.0

A look back at Sam Smith's "The Jordan Rules" shows that MJ believed he wore down late in seasons and wanted to add strength to his post-up game. So he began seriously lifting weights, for the first time, in his seventh year, 1990-91, coinciding with his first le. Even though James was two years younger than MJ was when each entered the league, he grew up in a more fitness-crazed era, in a football-crazed state, where serious weight workouts were part of a high school athlete's routine. James has accelerated his training as a pro, adding more mass and explosiveness to his already unfair physique.

And therein may be the final argument for LBJ, at least so far. Michael struck fear into opponents -- a fear of embarrassment. His incredible quickness and agility could land you on the wrong end of a poster, sure. But tougher to take was his ruthless compe iveness, which he used to humiliate opponents (and if the Rodney McCray stories are true, even teammates).

James inspires a different fear, the kind in which a player is scared for his own physical well-being. His combination of speed, bulk and explosiveness hasn't been seen since, well, ever. The Pistons beat up the young Michael Jordan in the playoffs. If you were quick enough to get in front of him, you didn't fear taking a charge. But who, seriously, would stand in the way of James at full tilt on a breakaway dunk?

Six seasons into his career, James inspires a kind of awe that not even early MJ possessed -- that of a man playing a different sport than everybody else, something akin to Lawrence Taylor or Jim Brown on a football field.

Of course, beginning with his seventh season, Jordan built his own aura with his six les. And that aura is unlikely to be surpassed as a complete body of work. Unless, of course, LeBron wins a ring this year and hauls in five more.

Maybe there is something to that Bradshaw stat.


Luke Cyphers is a senior writer for ESPN The Magazine.

I love lebron but please have some respect for the GOAT oops sorry i mean the greatest athlete of all time period in his repectable sport. This man has no rival its clear hes the greatest.