I mentioned Devin because Brent will play less minutes when Devin's back, not for any other reason. I know they play well together, those two together comprise part of my favorite Spurs lineup.He actually play great with Devin...Devin has been the receipient of MANY Barry outlet passes, and work very well with B.
yeah brent can hoop
he had a larcenous heart vs houston
he knows devin well
it does seem that devin plays well with all the spurs
devins a put me in cold cold i'm ready to play today guy
he's also a texas boy, he looks good, he feels good, he stays right between sbc and hillwood guy
well good except his back
devin and brent will be vital to the 05 le
People saying he didn't do anything all season was false...he shot 50% from 3 for the entire month of Janurary...he's hit some big shots for us..some clutch FT's, played well a an emergency starter, played well in our biggest comebacks of the season and one of our biggest wins, and he was part of the reason for our hot start, the best in team history.
He has gotten lost at stetches and lacked agressiveness, and his shooting his low by his own standards, but he hasn't been near as bad as some claimed...
and it wasn't because he choking or whatever...
And the reason I think it was so easy for many fans to have a major hate on for him is that in a compe ion with Devin Brown, Brown has home town advantage...not to mention athleticism and quickness...it really shouldn't be Barry VS Devin...
No, the reason it was easy for some people to hate on him is that he had a stretch where he shot 3-for-30 from the three (or something like that).And the reason I think it was so easy for many fans to have a major hate on for him is that in a compe ion with Devin Brown
Steve Kerr went through a stretch like that in 03(2-27 I think)...no one even noticed it back then because all the other guards were injured and he was still hitting shots that mattered...
My point was that he doesn't need to start to play well, he just needs the minutes. Some were advocating bringing Manu off the bench and starting Barry because he needed more time with Duncan on the floor and he needed to start to boost his confidence (in other words, Hedo redux). The truth is, he just needs the minutes.It HAD a lot to do with whether he was starting or not, because previous, the ONLY time he got the minutes, was when he was starting.
And I agree he plays well with Devin. All I'm saying is that if the minutes get split between them again when Devin comes back, Barry's play will more than likely suffer.
It's funny. A lot of people who were giving excuses why Barry wasn't playing well earlier were saying it was because he needed more playing time with Duncan on the floor. Now this week, I've seen many posts saying that Barry just needed less playing time with Duncan on the floor (because the offense is more stagnant with Duncan in). Now people have decided that he just needed more minutes.
So when Duncan comes back and Barry gets some minutes with Duncan and some minutes without Duncan, and his playing time is reduced when Devin returns, will he still be able to perform? In other words, what I'm asking is ... Do you think he'll be able to carry over the type of play that he's playing now?
yeah he has to get some kind of spark when the playoffs start, knowing he actually can go deep and contribute, be seen as the missing link they needed last year
Probably not...and we'll be going with Pop's boys in the playoffs...a rookie who had no expectation on him, and has been able to play out of the spotlight all season, and an NBDL player who has played shaky in the crunch of big games, whose big games never seem to translate to wins, and who is often as disruptive to our overall team play as he is to our opponents...and who has choked in at least one game this season.
It's not just Barry that has struggled with this rotation this season either....Devin has struggled too...the difference is that Devin has been with the team in part of 3 different seasons, has known Pop since a child, and has a skill set more suited to Pop's mindset of basketball....
I don't think it's all the minutes...I think it's Pop having quick hook with these guys and doing things like...giving one of them 2 minutes of PT in a loss has screwed them up...that's not a case of not coddling them...that's a case of anti coddling. 2-5 minutes of PT says you suck.
At the beginning of the season Devin and Barry(as well as Malik and Horry) were all playing well with basically equal minutes. But the depth of talent gives Pop more outlets for his temper...and these guys are human...for all we know Duncan could be effected the same way confidence wise if it happened to him.
Brent Barry is a punk! He signed with the Spurs even though we offered him more money.
Looks like Whottt wants to bet that Brent plays less than 10mpg in the playoffs....
Like I said, probably not. Pop needs to pick Devin or Barry. Play one and sit the other except for spot minutes. We are better off with one of them playing well than both of them playing decent or poor.In other words, what I'm asking is ... Do you think he'll be able to carry over the type of play that he's playing now?
At this point I'd advocate sticking with Brent even when Devin comes back because of the injury and because Barry makes the offense run more smoothly, which we need more than Brown's defense.
But Pop hasn't shown a willingness to stick with one guy so things will probably go back to the way they were once Devin returns.
Looks like Chump wants to suck the intelligence out of an argument yet again by obstinately focusing on a stupid tangent that only has relevance in the world of the Popsac.
Through the fog of dimness...do you remember me saying it wasn't about minutes at that time? I think you do. Wait no...you probably don't remember it...I have to remember who I am arguing with.
Did playing Barry more than 10 mins per game solve the problem? No it didn't. And it didn't even keep you from ing about Barry.
I am not gonna make a another stupid bet with you where make about as conservative an estimate as you can and get propped by TimVP as if you are a genius. I do not try and guess what Pop will do...and I was stupid to make a bet based on what he will do...but it was a bet that I argued the relevance of from the beginning.
Personally, I don't think so. He has shown since the beginning of the season that when he plays 25 to 35 minutes a game...He plays well. He plays right around his career avg in points, assists, and shooting %...(not counting 3pt%) although thats starting to climb again. He needs the minutes, he needs to have the ball...You get Tony, Tim, Manu all back...he starts not seeing the ball much...misses a couple shots, Devin comes back...And we are back to square one.
I think Pop has to pick one or the other, too.
I think he'll pick Barry and just lets Devin play spot minutes. Ludden's latest article said that Devin's back hasn't shown any signs of improvement. So Devin in only spot minutes when he returns might be a good thing. Plus Devin can probably still contribute in limited minutes.
Give Barry all the minutes you want but if he's just standing out there waiting for Duncan kickouts and getting yanked for Devin or Beno when he doesn't hit them, he is going to suck IMO....it's a problem....but how can having a guy that doesn't need Duncan to play well truly be a problem? It should be a strength. But the Spurs aren't used to having that much talent...and don't really know how to use it.
IF we are going to go to 4 down offense in the playoffs with Duncan kickouts...Beno and Devin both do that better than Barry(but I am not sure they do it well enough to win an NBA le). If that is really all we are going to do...then I think our struggles will look like those we usually have when our season ends...then again we don't have the Lakers to worry about this year....
Hey, don't whine about taking a sucker bet. No one held a gun to your head.
If Barry can't convert wide open shots from Duncan kickouts, signing him was a huge mistake.
I'm not...I'm whining about possibly not winning a le due to predictable offense and stubborness.
Everyone thinks all Barry wants is minutes...but it's not that simple.
Everyone is resistant to going towards a more guard oriented offense in the playoffs..one that will allow Barry(and I think Manu and Parker as well) to fit the team better...to put less pressure on Duncan...and one that IMO, will make our team that much tougher.
If you guys just want players to hit threes off Duncan kickouts...then Devin and Brown should be the guys doing it because Barry doesn't do that well...for what ever reason...he thinks too much...timing...he just doesn't do it well.
Me personally? I don't even think Duncan liked that type of offense...I think he likes to do it some...but why did he want Jason Kidd if he liked 4 down so much?
And everyone acts like that's the only way Duncan can play well and some infallible offense...I think it's a predictable offense that is easily disrupted by a smart coach and team. And I think having more scoring threats will make Duncan more effective.
Duncan plays as well in an uptempo offense as any bigman in the NBA...Duncan never has problems adjusting his game to his teamates strenghts...he's a great player...
4 down is an archaic and predictable offense that was useful on teams with limited talent in the backcourt...
We got freaking Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker. Brent Barry, those 3 alone make this the best guard rotation in Spurs history...throw in Beno and Devin...it's just a sick rotation.
But what are we going to do? Put the ball where all our opponents know it will be...and have those guys stand around shooting threes...on the posessions Duncan doesn't turn it over due to the triple team.
I wish this was possible, but I've seen every single game this year. I would LOVE to go back and count how many times Duncan has kicked the ball out to Barry for a 3. I would be willing to bet it has been no more than 10 times ALL YEAR!
It was a huge mistake and I don't think anyone expected it to work out this way.
But that doesn't mean it has to be a failure...
But what's an even bigger mistake is refusing to try and utilize the talents Barry does have that mesh well with Parker and Manu, talents that if utilized, make Duncan's life easier, make things tougher on our opponents, and make us a better team(got us off to the best start in history)..and probably make 4 down an even more effective option.
But keep clinging to the choke.
It doesn't have to be Duncan kicking it out...it's that post offense where Duncan sucks the clock for 15 seconds of it while the other guys stand around at the top of the key and watch.....I think Pop calls it "polished".
Even if Duncan is not kicking it out to Barry he is still standing around there with the rest of them and getting the ball from someone else who has been standing around.
I call it the "turn it over, kill all offensive momentum, blow a double digit 4th quarter lead, break Duncan's back, and usually choke" offense.
I think the only guys that truly shoot better 3's that way are guys that aren't truly 3 point shooters...real shooters seem to struggle with it...
EG...since Duncan went out,(and we stoped using Horry and Mass as Duncan) whose 3 point shooting PCT has been going up?...and whose has been going down?
I totally agree with you...I was just making an observation.
He wanted to play for a winner. In hinesight it was a good decision. Even with eveything he has gone through.
You guys act like four down is the only play this team has ever run. Simply not true. At the same time you act like it's a bad idea to give the ball to the best post player in the league where he is most effective and most likely to get a wide open shot for anyone man enough to knock it down. I have always agreed that the Spurs should mix it up, but everyone that thinks four down is anathema to winning a championship is fooling themselves.
The Spurs don't run 4-down much this season. It's mixed in with a variety of other plays that are called. Spurs fans think every time Duncan touches the ball on the block it's because 4-down was called. Sometimes they call it, sometimes it ends up there on broken plays. But a lot of the plays are for something other than 4 -down. It was that way last season too. There's a lot more picnroll, motion plays, and a variety of other things.
But Chump is right, 4-down is a necessary play call to win a le.
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