Could possibly be the most stupid post ever written on ST. So Kobe is considered great because of the youtube/twitter generation overhypes him.Forget that the vast majority of basketball people (Owners, GM's, Coaches, Scouts, and Players) consider Kobe to be one of the best to ever lace them up. It's cleary not the case because Harlem hates him and twitter fans overrate him. Geeeeeeeeeez. That's beyond re ed.
In all your time as an NBA fan.
If you never heard an interviewer talk about Shaq's donminance and compare him with other greats (both past and present) and ask players whats it's like to play against the most dominant center ever, then I don't know what to say... other than you are not very observant. Talk about revisionist history.
I think this one is tough, but I would most likely go Garnett because he is a big.
Kobe brings better scoring talent, but that alone can get you only so far. It is really difficult for me to overlook the things Garnett did for the T'Wolves. IMO Garnett brings more to the table than Kobe does.
So you're saying Pop and Duncan are just not very good at evaluating NBA talent?
i would prefer a dominant post player rather than a dominant jump shooter....better field goal percentage and shot blockin presence.....
I think they are great at evaluating talent, but I think the OP's question has been confused. I know that I am thinking of it in terms of who would you build a team around. I find it easier to build around a good big than a good guard.
If this question is based on individual talent, I have no answer.
Strength (by position) advantage Kobe
Length (By position) advantage Garnett
Shot blocking ability - Garnett
Rebounding - Garnett
Steals - Kobe
Scoring - Kobe
Defense - Garnett
This is why comparing different positions is nonsense. Both have been great players and had remarkable years. Both have been the best player in the NBA at their respective positions. Kobe has maintained the higher level for a longer period. So when you ask... who is better... what exactly does that mean? Better skilled? Better fundementals? Better scorer? Most effecient? Better defender? Best to build around?
.... and as you said, in a situation where you are dealing with players fairly equal in talent, you go with the big to build around.
How did you get that from me saying Kobe's prime isn't top 5 in the NBA's history?..
You brought up what Pop and Duncan said..IIRC, they said this in 2006 or 2007..I agreed that Kobe was better than Garnett at this time and arguably better than Duncan..Kobe had a great case for being the best player on the planet at the time..
How does that = a top 5 prime of all-time?..
Where did I say Kobe is only great because of the attention?..why do you do this?..when did I say Kobe isn't one of the best ever?..why do you always take a statement, use extreme hyperbole, and then pretend I said something else?..why are you such a Laker fan?..Could possibly be the most stupid post ever written on ST. So Kobe is considered great because of the youtube/twitter generation overhypes him.
In all your time as an NBA fan.
If you never heard an interviewer talk about Shaq's donminance and compare him with other greats (both past and present) and ask players whats it's like to play against the most dominant center ever, then I don't know what to say... other than you are not very observant. Talk about revisionist history.
I just re-read my post..I honestly have no idea how you got "Kobe isn't great and is only regarded as great due to the media" from what I said..
Why do you act like this?..
On your last point, it's not even debatable..the media coverage wasn't even close to today's NBA..in today's NBA, you have cameras in locker rooms asking other players about Kobe, you have segments where players/coaches are asked about Kobe, you have articles where old players are asked about Kobe..it wasn't even close in the past TBH, I don't know how you could say otherwise..
Why do you do this though?..
Last edited by HarlemHeat37; 06-07-2010 at 11:38 PM.
i don't agree w/ a lot of HH's points, but appealing to authority is just re ed, esp. when you consider the fact that Pop and Duncan are going to be facing Kobe in the future and don't need to give him extra motivation, and more importantly because Popovich simply has been wrong many times. case in point: earlier in the year he called RJ Stephen Jackson w/o all the baggage. are you kidding me...
Kobe has been surrounded by RIDICULOUS talent and one of the best coaches in the league, and they still had trouble with inferior teams like the Thunder and Jazz this year, and the Rockets last year. Kobe is a great player, but a prime a KG's team with the talent level of his cast and Phil Jackson and a coach would be dominating the league right now. they wouldn't even need a closer because the games would be over by the 3rd quarter.
imo, Garnett is right there with Duncan as one of the top players of all time. Duncan, as great as he is, has been SAVED by the same role players that KG lacked throughout his career in Minny. Horry and Manu won the Finals '05 series agains the Pistons.
i don't read your posts. sorry to dissapoint u.
kobe would have been another reggie miller without shaq and gasol...that is for sure....
Kobe is waaaay better than Reggie, man.
as far as primes go it's:
1. Shaq
2. Duncan
3. Garnett
4. Kobe
people act like this is some kind of a diss to Bryant when it's not. all those players were unbelievable in their primes.
i meant reggie was a good player without rings....kobe would have been just like that if not for shaq and gasol...
Just like all great players and teams, all of them needed great role players. And of, you're missing out on Bowen too.
If not for the collusion of 2008, Kobe would have been on top of that list. Was Kobe relevant from 2005-2007?
I never implied that you said he is "only" great because of the attention. Where did you see that?
You said he is hyped up because of the attention from the new media sources and implied that Kobe is overhyped because fans use twitter msgs as resorces. Certainly you must have meant that the overhyping adds to his "greatness", no? Sorry, but that's just plain absurd.
Because you're an idiot who can't see past the stat sheet.
Seriously? You and your 2 alter egos probably compromise 90% of the Kobe hate on the forum. So the better question would be... if you honestly think Kobe is one of the best ever, why do you feel the need to post ad nauseum about how ty a player and teammate he is? Get real. We all know your agenda. You are not fooling anyone.
Born, raised, and live in So Cal. Attended first Laker game in 1965. Season ticket holder since 1971. Access to front office and team due to connections through own basketball career. Loyality. Pride in community. Etc Etc...
Why are you such a hater?
Really? Wow, you cannot comprehend your own writing? How sad.
Not seeing anything about basketball anywhere in your post. All I see is media and fan overhyping, revisionist history claims, and well, your hatred.
Because I have a special place in my heart for the disabled... and seeing as how yours is mental... I feel a special need to help you and set you straight on occasion.
I never once said the media coverage isn't deeper. Only a fool would argue that. Not sure where you got that from. You commented that you "NEVER ONCE" remember an interviewer asking other players or coaches about the best player in the NBA. I say you are a fool if you didn't because the media has always compared the greats be it in the newspaper, radio, mags, tv, or internet. Chamberlin & Russell was a huge debate and often players were asked their opinion. Magic vs Bird at number one was asked often. Shaq vs TD. Come on. You are honestly going to sit there and say you have never heard any media persons asking or talking about Shaq being the most dominant of all time? You are a liar if you answer yes to that, or simply the moron I consider you to be. Which is it?
Because I can and it bothers YOU!
Last edited by cobbler; 06-08-2010 at 12:59 AM.
2005-2007:
3 time all star
All NBA 3rd team - 2005
All NBA 1st team - 2006, 2007
All NBA Defense 1st team - 2006, 2007
All star MVP - 2007
81 point game
62 point 3 quarter game
4 consecutive 45+ point games
65 point game vs Blazers
10 50+ point games in a season
etc..
A whole lot of irrelevance there!
Kobe. And it's not even close. But both are slightly over rated. No one gives Kobe's coach the credit he deserves and the fact that he has always needed an extremely talented big man to be successful. And Garnett would not have ever won a le without two other All Stars to defer to. He just doesn't have the "it" that a Kobe or Duncan, DWade or Shaq has. He has it more than a Dirk, Howard, Carter and McGrady, but he's kind of on the LBJ level.
Missed the playoffs, you forgot putting it in your short list brah.2005-2007:
3 time all star
All NBA 3rd team - 2005
All NBA 1st team - 2006, 2007
All NBA Defense 1st team - 2006, 2007
All star MVP - 2007
81 point game
62 point 3 quarter game
4 consecutive 45+ point games
65 point game vs Blazers
10 50+ point games in a season
etc..
A whole lot of irrelevance there!
lol not so closet Kobe fanHow is this a question? Prime Kobe without a doubt. He's one of the top three players of all time. How could Prime Garnett be better?
And on another note...I hate the argument that KG had no supporting cast in Minny as a defense for their playoff suckitude. He had Marbury for two years when Marbury averaged 18/9. He had Terrell Brandon for four years averaging around 16/8, etc.
Seriously how is Kobe a top three player of all-time? He's number three of the decade, so unless you think the best three players in the history of the league came from this decade, there's no way to say that with a straight face.
That's kinda what I was wondering. Shoot, I don't think he's even the greatest Laker of all time.
You asked if he was relevant during 2005-2007. I showed he was. I don't see how missing the playoffs would go on a relevance list. Again, you asked, I showed you, and all you can come up with he didn't make the playoffs with Smush, Luke, and Kwame as starters and the coach quitting 1/3 the way into the season. BRILLIANT!!!!!
He's not # 3 of the decade to everyone - http://www.nba.com/alldecade/vote13/
Anyway... to me for All-Time, it's Michael and Wilt .. then a bunch of people could be argued for third... Russell/Magic/Oscar/Kobe/Shaq/blahblah
Most of the time, I think of Russell as third. And you could argue Kobe all the way down to 15 if you want. But I still don't see how prime KG is even close to as good as prime Kobe.
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