Robinson had an MVP season, that's got to qualify him as the best big man for that season, no?
Robinson more often than not WAS the best player on the court. He took the franchise from 21-61 to 56-26... soooo he did destroy 56 opponents who got in his way.What never gets mentioned is that Robinson never had the drive to be the best. You can say all you want about his teammates, but I never saw Robinson exhibit a killer instinct and say, "I'm better than anyone on the court and I will destroy anyone who gets in my way".
Olajuwon had one of the best single playoff series performances in recollection. You make it sound as though each meeting between the two, Olajuwon absolutely destroyed Robinson. This was not the case.,. in fact, for the most part the two put up fairly equal performances in head to head matchups. It's unfortunate that it appears that one playoff performance where Olajuwon unquestionably decimated Robinson will define countless classic matchups between the two bigs.Robinson should have beaten Hakeem. He was at least as gifted an athlete as Hakeem. But Hakeem was driven. What should have been Robinson's greatest victory to date (MVP and beating the Rockets) ended up being the lasting image of his career.
Thanks for pointing this out. Sometimes people attribute the whole "good guy" and "humble" culture to Tim which bugs me. Although Tim's maintained those standards as the superstar of the team, it started with D-Rob and Tim managed to be perfect fit in the culture D-Rob created.
Well then if you don't think we're speaking to a different criteria we just disagree. I personally can't see a comparable impact between Tim and Dave off the court and how each of their commitments to the city and team are splitting hairs, but you can and I know better than to try and convince you otherwise. We both have our opinions based off our own experiences and neither one of us has shown much of a willingness to be converted in the past, so I'll respectfully leave it there. As stated before, I'm fine with your position and have no problem simply disagreeing.
Don't start the inferring and getting into my intent again. Seriously. I told you what I was referring to and explained it as well as I could. Do I know your exact age? No. But we've talked in the past and realize you're younger than myself, so I know you weren't old enough to have really experienced Dave's whole career at a time where you could really appreciate a player the way you have with Duncan.
That's not some kind of attack, just an acknowledgement of something we all face and something that's affected me as well with players like Bird and Magic. It's not insulting to be born or not of the right age during a particular players heyday, it's just a fact of life -- people like you and me learn about those players and have a pretty damn good understanding of them, but we'll never truly have that feeling for those players before our time because we didn't experience them firsthand to truly comprehend, appreciate, or just be awed by.
I don't think you're a Duncan fanboy but I do think your experiences make you partial or ready to equivocate much the same way we all do with the players we experience during our formative years -- the years we're old enough to truly understand what's going on.
Relax, man. You really can't handle debate. You take it way too personally.
Don't tell me what to do. "so I know you weren't old enough to have really experienced Dave's whole career at a time where you could really appreciate a player the way you have with Duncan." That's why I saw it as an inference towards me and that quote confirms it.
I never said I was younger than you and any age related inference I may have made could have easily been misinterpreted by you. Let me guess, you're referring to the time where I said something along the lines of "I don't know what it's like to feel like I'm in my 30s"?
I never said it was an attack, I said it was an inference. Funny, you call me out for "inferring and getting into your intent", then do the same with me. I've already assured you that this age/era theory is not playing a factor in what I said. This time, you'll just have to take my word for it.
That's all . . .
I have to say it is Duncan. D-Rob made the Spurs revelant again, and he was the reason I liked the Spurs in 1996 when I was in kindergarten. But Duncan has taken this franchise to a new level and has brought a winning tradition to this organization. Before Duncan, I'm sure Spurs fans were terrified when they had face teams like the Jazz and Suns.
A lot of people say that Robinson couldn't win because he didn't have great teammates. But could he score 71 points while playing with Tony and Manu or other good players?
He got destroyed by Hakeem that same season. I think we all know who was the best big man in that season.
Which was then eclipsed by the turnaround the Spurs had when Duncan arrived.
Exactly. On the biggest stage with all the lights on him, Robinson was manhandled by Hakeem. However, if one was to choose Duncan's defining moment, it's easily Game 6 of the 2003 Finals when Duncan wouldn't let the Spurs lose. But you could easily look at Game 6 of the Western Conference Semis when Duncan absolutely took apart Horry, Shaq and anyone else who tried to guard him.
I remember Horry being torched by Duncan so Shaq goes to Horry and says, "I got him." Duncan looks at Shaq, goes into the block, throws his body into Shaq and calls for the ball. In all the games I've watched DRob play, I've NEVER seem him do anything like that. I never seen Robinson have that look in his eye.
And the one thing you left out is if you had to start a franchise with one player, which do you choose? It's Duncan of course. And knowing what we know about Duncan's personality, that franchise would still be run like the Spurs, a no nonsense team first franchise that everyone credits with Robinson with starting.
Robinson is a great human being, but Duncan's no slouch in that department himself. I guarantee that the new franchise would be identical to the Spurs we know with Duncan as the foundation instead of Robinson. They're both great human beings and it shows how lucky we as Spurs fans are for seeing these great players and great individuals off the court.
Kobe>both of them.
Made Duncan his in 01/02/04/08.
Cheers.
Destroyed in the playoffs, yes.... their regular season head to head matchups, was a lot closer with Olajuwon eclipsing Robinson significantly in points also beating Robinson in steals. Robinson took the advantage in blocks, assists and fewer turnovers per game. Most importantly, the Spurs won the season series 5-1.
DR: 22Pts, 2.8BL, 2.1ST, 10.3REB, 3.8AST, 3.6TOV
HAK: 29.5Pts, 3.5BL, 1.3St, 9.6REB, 2.8AST, 4.5TOV
This was also the season that David Robinson returned. The prior season he played only 6 games.... this season he played 73 and put up very respectable numbers at 21.6ppg, 10.6rpg, 2.6bpg and 2.7ast. Timmy contributed comparable numbers at 21.1ppg, 11.9rpg, 2.5bpg and 2.7ast. Statistically, this 36 game turnaround should be credited equally among the two.Which was then eclipsed by the turnaround the Spurs had when Duncan arrived.
I would go with Robinson. I feel that between the two, there is only one aspect of Duncans game that is superior to Robinsons and that is his wizardry in the post. HOWEVER.... I would not be disappointed in the least bit if I had to go with Duncan. They are both phenomenal players who have given us fans many years of basketball excellence. I do not knock anybody for choosing Duncan over Robinson in this poll. I just have a really hard time believing anybody who says "Duncan and it's not even close" ever had the opportunity to see Robinson play.... outside of maybe his decline years. Take Shaq and say Dwight Howard for example. If someone just began to watch the NBA in the past few years they are watching Dwight in his prime while Shaq is just a s of his former self. In their viewing experience, they'd almost have to go with Dwight as the better player.And the one thing you left out is if you had to start a franchise with one player, which do you choose? It's Duncan of course. And knowing what we know about Duncan's personality, that franchise would still be run like the Spurs, a no nonsense team first franchise that everyone credits with Robinson with starting.
First of all, off. You obviously cannot understand the criteria of this thread.
Second, it's been said before and I'll say it again, if we're simply talking about who was better BASKETBALL-wise, it's gotta be Duncan. 2 MVPs, 3 Finals MVPs, best PF in the history of the game, etc. But this thread was asking about who was the best SPUR of all time. For crying out loud, the NBAs community service award is freaking named for David Robinson. As much as MJ became the face of the Bulls, Big Dave became the face of his city. He has done so much more than just keep the Spurs in San Antonio--his at ude is really the measuring stick of what it means to be a Spur. Even Duncan has said that Robinson's demeanor and personality filtered to everyone in the locker room, and you'd be a fool to believe that Duncan's quiet leadership was amplified by his emulation of David's example.
As I've said before, they're both outstanding individuals, and when it gets down to it, neither of them would be even remotely interested in this type of debate. At the end of the day, though, when I think of what makes a great Spur (i.e., all around individual on the court and in the community), my mind compares everyone to Five-Oh.
Kobe was not even the greatest player on his team when in 00/01/02. Even with the best center in shaq the still needed help from the official/Nba to win those championships. The refs cheated the trail blazers and sacaremento. In 04 they need the miracle .4 shot to beat us. Anyways shaq and kobe lost in the 04 finals to the pistons. Kobe could not win a championship with shaq in 04 but dwade won a championship with a much worst shaq in 06. In 08 kobe choked again to the celtics. In 09 the lakers won the le because they just had so much talent compared to the rest of the league. When I watch them play I root against them because to me they just don't feel like a championship team. By championship team I mean a group of players that play hard and together to win a ring. This team doesn't they just have so much talent they win. In 2010 the lakers win a 7 game finals series, in which kobe went 6 for 24 in game 7. So when you look at the big picture kobe choked 2 finals and almost a third. He won three finals being the second best player on the team and they still needed the officials help. Then he won two finals because his team was so damn talented. Seems to me that you are overrating kobe.
Duncan on the other hand has won 4 ring being the best players on his team. Even though parker got finals mvp in the 07 finals. He did all this with the best other two players being all-stars like three total times. He has been a two time league Mvp. Oh yeah, he won four rings without the help of the officials/Nba. In my opinion duncan> kobe.
Damn forgot to mention that the lakers fell off the map when shaq left. They needed that fishy trade for gasol to become relevent again.
Did you see that game? He didn't have to score 71 points in that game either. It wasn't one of those games where he had so little help that he needed to carry his team and voila.
That was a meaningless game. The only reason he played was to win the scoring le. And to me it seemed it was his teamates and coaches that wanted him to do it more than he did. Like they pumped him up to go for it.
All I was saying was that Robinson was explosive in his scoring. Duncan is not that type of scorer. He just kills you with a steady diet of efficiency and consistency. And when the stakes are highest, he's would be even deadlier. The quiet scoring and rebounding and defensive presence. Robinson was so athletic that he blew you away.
Duncan is the greatest PF of all time. His playoff reputation makes him one of the greats of all time. But people do underestimate Robinson as an athletic phenom, explosive scorer, and his defensive presence on the ball and help-side controled oponents' FG% like few ever have.
It's not like big Dave was just some nice guy we all like and he played basketball. He achieved highs that few ever have: ROY, DPOY, MVP, scoring champ, All-NBA teams, All-Defense Teams, NBA champ.
Since David convinced Duncan to stay... couldn't he also be "credited" with everything Tim has done?
With that logic, I would have to say Davids parents are the best spurs ever. You know since the created him.
Let me just put this to rest.
Tim Duncan is the best basketball player to ever play for the Spurs.
D-Rob is one of the best off-court people in the history of the game, let alone the Spurs.
Cliffs:
Tim Duncan best basketball player
D-Rob best humanitarian
Honestly, I only watched some highlights in youtube. My point is, if Robinson had to share the ball with other players like Tony and Manu, it's unlikely he would be competing for the scoring le.
Duncan I dont care if David has better numbers ...IIRC David used to win the award that was a precursor to PER (sponsored by Schick I believe)
Duncan was the better player period. As far as a humanitarian, gentleman scholar than David gets it. I dont think duncan will be coming to regular season games when he retires ...David is mr. Spur just like Magic is Mr.Laker
but that doesnt make them the best ever ...
But I do think magic is both ...
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